seeking character build approval 3.5

[SliceandDiceKid]

I was inspired to have another go at a DBZ themed character. I'm simply curious if this will be viable at all.

Human- improved unarmed strike
Barbarian 4 great fortitude, power attack
Fist of the Forest 3 superior unarmed strike
Warlock 6 (use EB and HIDEOUS BLOW intermittently)
Hellfire warlock 3 for greatly increased damage and the flight invoc

Is this going to be sweet hitting people for 2d6+5d6 with an optional extra 6d6,
Or will I be the guy who gets downed and people laugh when I roll damage each turn?

[NoACWarrior]

You'd ideally want some type of levitation and maybe dimension door - I'm inclined to get something spell like or part of a class feature as magic items don't jive with getting blown up like the Z warriors do (with no shoes, and a half ripped shirt). You may want VoP to make up for not taking magic items and wearing gear, but it makes you worse off than a few non-slotted magic items. If you got the feats you can take "Shape soulmeld" for "non-destructible" class feature magic items.

Flurry of strikes also adds to the "alot of blows" occurring. Using the hellfire warlock has some pretty serious consequences, so it would make sense as you use the abilities you'd slowly wear out.

If you want epic fist throwing occurrences between you and another fighter / melee take Robiler's Gambit and Karmic Strike - for every attack you receive you deal 1 AoO generated attack out (make sure to get high dex and take combat reflexes). If you face another Robiler's Gambit or Karmic Strike Melee artist you can both trade around 10-20 attacks in the 6 second round.

edit: And no - the damage is meh at lvl 16 - you should be dealing almost enough to down a single CR appropriate monster in 1-2 turns by yourself. Given that you will have at least some flavor, in that you know you could use magical items to better yourself but you refuse as it is part of the thrill. But the best you are going to be is a tanker who does less than 1/2 optimized damage. DBZ ports only really work when you have combat lasting minutes at a time - it really screws up when you have a party which wipes the floor with an encounter in 1-3 rounds.

[Urpriest]

Repeat after me: Hideous Blow Blows Hideously.

It takes a standard action, so you can't make a full attack. It is a spell-like ability, so it provokes an attack of opportunity. And so on.

[Khatoblepas]

Would Eldritch Claws work with Beast Strike to help here? That might give you EB damage on all your unarmed attacks.

[Urpriest]

Would Eldritch Claws work with Beast Strike to help here? That might give you EB damage on all your unarmed attacks.

I could see that replicating the concept better, yeah.

OP: Google the term "Clawlock" and you'll get some builds that should help give you ideas.

[SliceandDiceKid]

I was unfamiliar with PH2 feats. Wow. That's insane. Also, was planning to use the flight invocation and dimension door as instant transmission. Love those feats though. I really dislike the glaivelock/clawlock stuff. Not condemning it, just doesn't feel right to me. Not the biggest fan of psionics, but I need to play one eventually. And I know hideous blow is terrible, but I thought it could be an interesting way to supplement unarmed damage. I wouldn't necessarily abhor magic items, but I probably won't do VoP again lol.

Off topic inquiry- is an optimized warlock viable? Like just warlock and hellfire warlock?

[SliceandDiceKid]

You'd ideally want some type of levitation and maybe dimension door - I'm inclined to get something spell like or part of a class feature as magic items don't jive with getting blown up like the Z warriors do (with no shoes, and a half ripped shirt). You may want VoP to make up for not taking magic items and wearing gear, but it makes you worse off than a few non-slotted magic items. If you got the feats you can take "Shape soulmeld" for "non-destructible" class feature magic items.

Flurry of strikes also adds to the "alot of blows" occurring. Using the hellfire warlock has some pretty serious consequences, so it would make sense as you use the abilities you'd slowly wear out.

If you want epic fist throwing occurrences between you and another fighter / melee take Robiler's Gambit and Karmic Strike - for every attack you receive you deal 1 AoO generated attack out (make sure to get high dex and take combat reflexes). If you face another Robiler's Gambit or Karmic Strike Melee artist you can both trade around 10-20 attacks in the 6 second round.

edit: And no - the damage is meh at lvl 16 - you should be dealing almost enough to down a single CR appropriate monster in 1-2 turns by yourself. Given that you will have at least some flavor, in that you know you could use magical items to better yourself but you refuse as it is part of the thrill. But the best you are going to be is a tanker who does less than 1/2 optimized damage. DBZ ports only really work when you have combat lasting minutes at a time - it really screws up when you have a party which wipes the floor with an encounter in 1-3 rounds.


I assume as "noacwarrior" you've made some PLEASE HIT ME builds. Care to link a few? Strikes me as terribly amusing.

[Urpriest]

I was unfamiliar with PH2 feats. Wow. That's insane. Also, was planning to use the flight invocation and dimension door as instant transmission. Love those feats though. I really dislike the glaivelock/clawlock stuff. Not condemning it, just doesn't feel right to me. Not the biggest fan of psionics, but I need to play one eventually. And I know hideous blow is terrible, but I thought it could be an interesting way to supplement unarmed damage. I wouldn't necessarily abhor magic items, but I probably won't do VoP again lol.

Off topic inquiry- is an optimized warlock viable? Like just warlock and hellfire warlock?

So you dislike the clawlock, but you like hideous blow? What do you dislike about the first and like about the second?

[SliceandDiceKid]

So you dislike the clawlock, but you like hideous blow? What do you dislike about the first and like about the second?

Oh no! I don't like hideous blow. It's obviously a terrible idea. But I was under the impression that people house rule it as no AoO. I just wanted to add my energy source to punches. Seemed creative... Ish.

Clawlock just seems weird. Maybe I don't know enough about it, but I tend to not like most dragon magazine stuff. Most, not all.

[Urpriest]

Oh no! I don't like hideous blow. It's obviously a terrible idea. But I was under the impression that people house rule it as no AoO. I just wanted to add my energy source to punches. Seemed creative... Ish.

Clawlock just seems weird. Maybe I don't know enough about it, but I tend to not like most dragon magazine stuff. Most, not all.

All I'm saying is that the fluff is identical. You add your energy to punches with Hideous Blow, and you add it with Beast Strike+Eldritch Claws.

I agree that it depends on Dragon material, so if that's what's discouraging you then that's legitimate. Your phrasing made it sound like it was a fluff thing though.

[SliceandDiceKid]

All I'm saying is that the fluff is identical. You add your energy to punches with Hideous Blow, and you add it with Beast Strike+Eldritch Claws.

I agree that it depends on Dragon material, so if that's what's discouraging you then that's legitimate. Your phrasing made it sound like it was a fluff thing though.

Sorry about that. I used to write really well, but I seem to come across as an idiot in the forums who forgets vital details.

[Urpriest]

Sorry about that. I used to write really well, but I seem to come across as an idiot in the forums who forgets vital details.

Eh, that's the internet for you.

If you'd rather stay clear of Dragon, any other source restrictions? There's probably another form of "add energy to attacks" that isn't quite as terrible as hideous blow.

[Khatoblepas]

If you'd rather stay clear of Dragon, any other source restrictions? There's probably another form of "add energy to attacks" that isn't quite as terrible as hideous blow.

Tashalatora King of Smack build? That doesn't exactly add energy to attacks, but manifesting buffs would give you a glowy aura of death (Beast Strike would also work well here, though) and also psionics models the blasty powers pretty well. I'd be tempted to go straight Egoist 20 with Monastic Training + Tashalatora.

Dragonfire Inspiration also adds energy to your attacks (and everyone elses', but...), and with Versatile Unarmed Strike, Snowflake Wardance works with unarmed attacks! Just take "Perform (Strained Yelling)". Though, I'm not sure it'll work perfectly for what you want.

[NoACWarrior]

Ah forgot about them invocations - that would definitely work. The part about using it to surprise an enemy with an attack is kind of hard in D&D because of the stop all action after a dimension door / teleport. Otherwise using Totemist with a particular soulmeld you could DD as a move action and do an attack right away (but you can't anyways so that's moot).


I assume as "noacwarrior" you've made some PLEASE HIT ME builds. Care to link a few? Strikes me as terribly amusing.

I haven't posted many as I only build 1 melee / phys and 2 spell caster types.
Its kind of out of scope:

Physical - few levels fighter, 2 levels in ronin, and the rest in fighter for the feats for Power Attack, Leap Attack, Shock Trooper chain, Karmic Strike. Conduct a leap attack charge attack using Ronin's Banzai Charge with Shock Trooper's heedless charge, trading all of your up to your BA for damage taking the same penalty on your AC, hit for 50-100 damage on a single charge. When the opponents attack you with multi weapons (most monsters have 2-3 or more attacks) you hit at full BA for every hit on you at 50-100 damage (people argue against leap attack applying at this point).

Arcane retaliation - few levels in incarnate, a few in warmage, a few in soulcaster, and a few more in warmage. Get the feats Karmic Strike and Arcane Strike, Get Mantle of flame with 4 essentia. Cast Acid sheath at the start of the fight. Use a magic item to cast either Umbral Touch (ToM) or Darkfire (SpC). Whenever you take a melee hit you deal 5d6+5d6+2*CL+5d4 damage EVERY hit (or at least nearly every hit, the weapon touch spells are VS AC).

Divine retaliation - Favored soul straight up. Get the feats Karmic Strike. Get Mantle of flame with 4 essentia. Maintain Hamatula Barbs. Cast Darkfire. Whenever you take a melee hit you deal 5d6+5d6+1d8 damage EVERY hit (or at least nearly every hit, the weapon touch spells are VS AC). Alternately cast Fire in the Blood before casting Darkfire.

The whole point of these builds is to wear down a single enemy with higher damage trading then they can do. Your relative HP ratios are also important to keep in mind. I found the Physical version to be good on a variety of occasions and had the HP to take on beefy things. Using the Physical version your enemy will be 20-40 Kobolds with crossbows. The Divine and Arcane are a bit field untested - thier HP pools will be substantially less than that of the Physical and they may not be able to dish out enough damage per hit.