Pathfinder - Does raising your con add HP to previous levels? Hit points questions.

[Greenfeuer]

Hey there! I am currently playing a Pathfinder campaign and I wondered if increaseing your con, Means getting ekstra hit points to previously levels?

For examble. You con is 11 ( as i mine is currently ) and I choose to raise it at level for, now it will give me 1 ekstra hit point at that level and contiueing levels. Buuut! Does it gives me 3+ HP for the previous three levels aswell?


To sum up. Con 11, reaches level 4, increase it to 12. Gains 4 HP, since it backtracks to previous levels. Or does it simply not backtrack at all?



I wondered that and I never made a fuss about. But it would seemse more balanced and fair that it backtracks like toughness. Else you have to focus on getting a high con modifer at first level right away else you lose out a lot. In my case I will miss out on 3 hp, since I choose following stats for my bard rogue.


11 STR
15 DEX
11 CON
15 INT
12 WIS
18 CHA

Though this not about my current stats but more a question about how much HP I will gain and how my HP I would have?


Currently I am level 2 rogue and have choosen to two ekstra skills from my favorit class. And my current HP is 16 - 8 first level and rolled 8 for second level.


Hope that it sums it up ^^

[DeltaEmil]

You posed that question on rpg.net already, and the answer here and there is yes, increasing your Constitution bonus does retroactively give you hit points for former levels.

[Greenfeuer]

This thread seemse to imply it.

http://www.reddit.com/r/rpg/comments/1fnp12/pathfinder_boosting_con_will_up_my_hp/

[Greenfeuer]

Yep, but my GM is hard to convince. So he probably wanted a large scale answer rate.

He sees it as time traveling, getting HP and skill points from former levels. So I just wanted to make it clear for him *Chuckles*

[Psyren]

It's not "time travel," just consistency. Basically, they made it so that there is no difference between getting 16 Con and then leveling up, or leveling up first and then getting 16 Con later. (Or whichever number you are after.)

It makes sense to do it this way because there shouldn't be a difference between the two - If you have 16 Con, you should be exactly as tough as someone else who has 16 Con (provided you have the same hit die.)

[DarkWhisper]

Yep, but my GM is hard to convince. So he probably wanted a large scale answer rate.

He sees it as time traveling, getting HP and skill points from former levels. So I just wanted to make it clear for him *Chuckles*

No need for 'large scale answer rate' - just reading the rules.



(...)
If a character's Constitution score changes enough to alter his or her Constitution modifier, the character's hit points also increase or decrease accordingly.
(...)
Permanent Bonuses: Ability bonuses with a duration greater than 1 day actually increase the relevant ability score after 24 hours. Modify all skills and statistics as appropriate. This might cause you to gain skill points, hit points, and other bonuses. These bonuses should be noted separately in case they are removed.
(...)


The same text is found under "Intelligence", so it applies to Intelligence increases and skill points, as well.

[Keneth]

He sees it as time traveling, getting HP and skill points from former levels.

Does he also remove hp reduction from Con damage/drain?

I really don't see what the problem is. You get more Con and you get more hp. How is it any different from any other aspect of character advancement? Should you also not receive a bonus to attack if you Strength increases? How about bonus spells from high Int?

I swear, some GMs have the weirdest ideas. :smallannoyed:

[Talya]

No need for 'large scale answer rate' - just reading the rules.



The same text is found under "Intelligence", so it applies to Intelligence increases and skill points, as well.

I have never read the rules in that sarcastic a manner before!

[mucat]

Yep, but my GM is hard to convince. So he probably wanted a large scale answer rate.

He sees it as time traveling, getting HP and skill points from former levels. So I just wanted to make it clear for him *Chuckles*

From a thread (http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2kpru&page=1?Int-and-Skills#9) on the Paizo boards:


All bonuses are retroactive when an ability score increases, be they bonuses to damage, to skill ranks, to hit points, to saves, to skill checks... all of them. Skill ranks not being retroactive are a 3.5 convention we specifically removed from the game because it was a weird exception to the rule, and since now there are no exceptions to this rule, there's no need to specifically state that skill ranks are retroactively granted if your Intelligence goes up.

Even in 3.5 your HP would have been retroactive for Con increases, but if your Int went up, you would not have gotten retroactive skill points. In Pathfinder, though, every ability-score-based bonus is retroactive.

[Greenfeuer]

It seemse I have finally convinced by giveing him the following examble.


We have two level 4 fighters. Rick and Joe.

Joe has a Con of 16 and Rick has one of 15. But when they reached level 4, Rick chose to get 16 con aswell. Now they both have 16 con, but sadly Rick will miss out alot on HP because he didn't choose to have a 16 con from start.

In time of level 10. Rick will probably be quite weak compared to Joe in HP terms. Even though they have the same Con.


Then he was like Aaaarrrhh! I get it! But until then he was quite presisant and though of it as more rules and confusion due to the fact we try to keep it abit low key with too many rules. I explained him that it was alot easyer to make out the amount of skill points and HP if you simply went it retro, so much easyer. And as faar as I get it simple math by saying: Level x Int modifier and same with hp. Ofcourse HP you have to know what you actually rolled, but you can atleast find out what your MAX HP could be.

Thats why we don't play with Synergy either. Though I agree on that :)

[Barstro]

It seemse I have finally convinced by giveing him the following examble.

Glad it worked out.

Perhaps the makers should have just made a separate spot for CON.
Hit Points are d10 per level
Con Hit Points are current Con-bonus per level (for being so damned macho).

[Millennium]

In Pathfinder, all bonuses from score increases apply retroactively.

This is different from 3.5, where some scores apply retroactive bonuses and some don't. But even in 3.5, Constitution is one of the scores that does, because you still have all your Hit Dice. Int, for example, is one that doesn't, because you don't have the old opportunities to learn skills.

I find 3.5's method more realistic, but the simplicity of PF's method still has a lot of appeal. It's just a design tradeoff.

[Psyren]

In Pathfinder, all bonuses from score increases apply retroactively.

This is different from 3.5, where some scores apply retroactive bonuses and some don't. But even in 3.5, Constitution is one of the scores that does, because you still have all your Hit Dice. Int, for example, is one that doesn't, because you don't have the old opportunities to learn skills.

I find 3.5's method more realistic, but the simplicity of PF's method still has a lot of appeal. It's just a design tradeoff.

I don't see it as "learning a new skill." I see it as "understanding something you saw or tried to learn before, but didn't get."

So when you raise your Int, or wish for it to be raised, or wear that headband of Int for 24 hrs+, the skill ranks you gain retroactively represent a concept that you were exposed to at some point, but simply hadn't been able to internalize until that moment. It's basically like Guenter and his Electronium Hat from Futurama.

[Ninjaxenomorph]

Adding Con to hit points per level is just an easier way of saying 'You get your con modifier times your hit dice'. Same rules as monsters.