Rogue/wizard/fighter build

[Mental-State]

I have been lurking on this forum a while. I been role playing for a while but only play about 10 sessions of D&D which where 2 campaigns that folded. So I know quite a bit about the system and I have played other d20 games.

I am playing an evil game (my thief guild has been subverted my Bhaal followers) my job was to find some people of some skill (but not too much to be a problem so level one characters) and get them in and make sure they keep to guild interest (which is no longer about stealing, mostly killing and starting riots).

OK here is the fun part. I know you guys can make every exp point count when it comes to build a character. I am playing a game kinda based off gestalt but more. Basically
You can play single class for 100% exp
Two for 2/3 exp
Three for 1/2 exp

It is set in forgotten realms. We have two gm's who are going to switch running so they both have ncp party characters ( half orc cleric/barbarian of Gurmush and a crazy druid/warrior that’s eats what she kills, she hates waste and starts to break down after 30 mins inside a house etc.)

I think my gm is a bit mental (he think beguiler is broken) so that’s why I’m going rogue wizard. But the system he has in place is you get all the skill points of both classes (more classes means more maxed out skills). I picked up fighter as I’m going to be splitting my feats with wizard and rogue. You can take a prestige class with any of your classes (I’m going spymaster/dagger spell mage). You can also drop a class (fighter when I get what I need) so for me if I did drop fighter after that I would be getting 2/3 exp.

Basically I come here not to ramble but to get some advice
1. Any crazy combos you can think of considering combining prestige classes.
2. it’s an evil game, it is not about making sure we have all the bases covered and team work. its about at least being more useful alive/being too dangerous to kill/too hard to kill. need ideas how to deal with other players

So the party is
Sun Elf Bard2/fighter3/Cerlic3 of Bhaal CE (lol he already killed 2 of the party, one being me) He is going for pure damage (melee and spells) he dropped bard when he drank from a cup with 100,000 souls killed by Bhaal and he is from singing to stop fights to killing other follows of Bhaal (he doesn’t really care who he kills) carrying on with fighter/Cleric

Human Paladin3/???? LE (2nd person to die, not sure if he has another class. (Planning on going more control, fear auras and melee)

Sun elf Rogue3/Ranger3 /? E (Ranged, Disguise dude, doesn’t turn up every session don’t know much about the character. Not sure if he has 2 classes or 3)

Half-orc Cerlirc3/Barbarian3 CE (fav person in the party, eats people, likes to fight (wearing a G-string made of a player character, elf skin is comfy, charge and hit things hard)

Human Druid3/Fighter CE(stands there and sends in the wolf, uses a wand sometimes, got a good charge, some region feat. going shape shifting and magic)

Sun elf Noble3/expert3/wizard3 N (or something like that, wants all the skills. wants all the craft. our group min/maxer feats to cheapen crafting costs, all the gear type of character and will try for the strong magic combos)

The main dudes to watch out for the Mr.crafter but he doesn’t see me as a threat
and Mr Bhaal (killed a PC for not wanting to go on a mission to kill a child, oh and the loot. also killed me as the was a small window between contracts with the thieves guild where PVP was an option. that’s why he killed the other PC. I found out about that and the fact that the cup he drank out of he told it to kill me. So I tried to find out where he lived for a night gank. Botched a move silently check to see where he lived and one shot me)


one thing to note is my GM thinks that rouges can only do one sneak attack a turn on a full attack (which makes kinda sense for jumping out of hide or being invisible) but flanking or if they are paralysed I'm going to convince him with logic (he likes logic, but also like balance and he think beguiler is broken)

This is going to be role play heavy game, most of the games we play we dont do much combat (not because we doing like it but why would a bunch of demons fresh out of hell try and take on a warehouse of other demons when you have the lord of hell right in front of you and they can do it quicker). so stuff like that.

What I want to do is
Rouge5/spymaster 7/ thief acrobat 1/exemplar 1
My character likes to stay out of the lime light, doesn’t like to be the leader but still wants power. So make or take an identity to take control of power bases without building them up. He is a wizard but that is his trump card. You can dispel a hide check. I’m going to add the 1st level of exemplar to buff/disguise. I’m leaning to buff. I going to social my enemy’s so I need to be good at lying. Also when you gank a PC you need to convince the other PC's it was not you.

Wizard5/daggerspell mage 10
Right as my GM said the reason my with version of the game works is because if you are a fighter wizard you can only do one attack a round. So either be the fighter and hit with your sword or be a wizard and zap people. Yeah... This is a good way to combo my rouge and wizard. I’m not looking for damage in this build but a type of character, a style of play but I’m looking to get the most out of it if possible. I have going shadow weave and going to do focus on shadow spells. Looking for options

My character learned magic for one reason. Because it is not something everyone can do or learn. Anyone can sneak or hide (maybe not well but they can) before becoming a wizard he saw it as how magic is for sorcerers. A rare gift. Not something that can be learned by any that has the mind to understand how the world really works. He has learned to enjoy magic but he is not looking to do major damage. That’s too easy to be expected. The threat of it works just as good.
Like the spell grease to make a weapon fall with the spell that is an unseen servant but steals. no so much buffing but a type of control.
I also thought of a fun combo where you the spell +++++++ where you switch places and take ++++++ so they don’t know you hit them and make it seem we are being ambushed by ninjas but too situational for me to go that way but that’s the idea
I want to make the enemy think that when they try to hit me and fail they are hitting an illusion. Waste turns taking to them through an illusion as they think it me.
I want to get a few good damage touch spells. One of each element really. Shadow evocation/conjratation should fill any gaps and for more options.



Fighter
Just for feats really. Going TWF and getting meta magic, and spell focus illusions is spreading thin. This let me get the feats for daggerspell mage while the feats you get by level will allow me to get others for my build.




My focus on this build is to be a skill monkey, able to survive solo. so diguse, forgery, hide etc
and illusions for the wizard, some enchantments.
The feats I have is

Spellcasting Prodigy (reagional) (from the 3.0 book, counts for spell save and spell slots)
Shadow Weave magic (1st lvl)
Tenacious Magic (human)
Weapon finesse (fighter lvl 1)
TWF (fighter lvl 2)
skill foucus (buff) (lvl 3)




Sorry for the long post. First time on here so forgive me

[Telonius]

Glad to have you aboard!

Just to clear up a bit of confusion first off ... usually, when people are talking about Gestalt classes around here, we use two slashes to separate what's on each side of the Gestalt. So you'd have something like:

Rogue/Assassin//Wizard/Archmage

Meaning one side of the Gestalt has Rogue and Assassin, and the other has Wizard and Archmage.

So, a couple of questions - first of all, what books are available to you? Second, it sounds like there may be some sort of multiclass restriction within the gestalt. Are you only allowed to have one class in each? Is something like Fighter1/Rogue19//Wizard20 allowed? (Not necessarily endorsing that build, particularly, but whether or not you can multiclass within the gestalt is really going to affect what kind of things you're going to be able to do). Last couple: what are your ability scores, are those feats set in stone, and have you already picked out the starting three classes (and can those be changed)?

[Snowbluff]

Are you trying to be Nale? It would be easier to be a bard. :nale:

Unseen Seer is my favorite Wizard/Rogue.

You can sub out Wizard Feats (including scribe scroll) for fighter bonus feats with the Unearthed Arcana Variant.

If PrCs are allowed on both sides, it's hard to be Wizard6/Swiftblade9/Spelldancer1/AbjurantChampion//Fighter1/Rogue4/Fighter+1/ArcaneDuelist10/UnseenSeer4.

[Mental-State]

So, a couple of questions - first of all, what books are available to you?


Complete series
Spell Compendium
Forgotten realms books

these are all fine
any other sorces are up to the gm

to mutilclass for example you would need to be a rogue for being a halfling for example

rogue//wizard//bard
but you will be stuck with the rogue or a prestige class for the rogue.
you can do fighter/rogue//wizard but would would have to be a elf, human, half-elf. you could drop the wizard if you wanted and go pure fighter/rogue (which is one line of classes) as an elf. the way he is running it is if you want to dual class thats when you need a favoured class

str 13
dex 17
con 15
int 17
chr 15
wiz 13

these where rolled

I have already started playing so yeah they kinda are. I think if I really asked I could change my feats but not my classes. at the moment I am rogue//wizard//fighter level 3



Are you trying to be Nale? It would be easier to be a bard. :nale:

Unseen Seer is my favorite Wizard/Rogue.

You can sub out Wizard Feats (including scribe scroll) for fighter bonus feats with the Unearthed Arcana Variant.


what/who is Nale?
I know for a fact he will not let me do the wizard sub

love to get rid of scribe scroll for something else though. I thought bard but I don't really see this charater singing and buffing and rogue//wizard gives me that i like from bard but more

[Snowbluff]

In Order of the Stick (You can find it under comics) the Bard has a twin brother who is a fighter/rogue/enchantment sorcerer. The joke is that this is a convoluted way of making a bard.

[Mental-State]

Yeah I read some of the comic. I like that idea lol. Not as a charater just as a concept.

Im thinking of droping fighter soon anyway

Im making a beguiler really, illusions, skill, and sneak attack.


Also a question, if you do a flat footed touch attack, is the AC for a medium monster 10?

[Telonius]

I almost want to suggest a mostly-Warlock in place of the Spymaster. The Prestige Class really isn't that great. Warlock can get you plenty of passive bonuses from the Invocations. Beguiling Influence, Entropic Warding, Flee the Scene ... all that seems to be the sort of thing you're doing (and want to do).


Also a question, if you do a flat footed touch attack, is the AC for a medium monster 10?
It depends on the monster. If it has uncanny dodge, it would add its dexterity bonus. If it has any deflection bonus, that would also apply to the AC.

[Snowbluff]

Yeah I read some of the comic. I like that idea lol. Not as a charater just as a concept.

Im thinking of droping fighter soon anyway

Im making a beguiler really, illusions, skill, and sneak attack.
Too bad Races of Destiny isn't allowed. It would be a good resource in this endeavour. There is a feat called Able Learner that makes cross class skills only cost 1 point.

Beguilers are cool. :smallsmile:


Also a question, if you do a flat footed touch attack, is the AC for a medium monster 10?

Nope. Some bonuses, like deflection, would still apply.

[Mental-State]

I almost want to suggest a mostly-Warlock in place of the Spymaster. The Prestige Class really isn't that great. Warlock can get you plenty of passive bonuses from the Invocations. Beguiling Influence, Entropic Warding, Flee the Scene ... all that seems to be the sort of thing you're doing (and want to do).


Yeah that sounds really cool, The GM has ordered the other compelte books. he only has Adventurer at the moment. I knew of the class but did not look into it.

I was thinking of getting the shadow template laster in game, as im a follower of Shaar. So with the spell abilities it works well. My GM doesnt like the idea of going for more than one caster class but he is not agaisnt it. A two arcane or two divine is more of his problem. But whats cool about this is that it is not a prestigue class so i can drop fighter for it.

The main reason I wanted spymaster is the quick change and undetectable alignment which is EX not a spell. Also not being able to be mind read is cool. I know there are spells but you can dispell them and I save on slots. Also the GM is likely to run with the theme of spymaster (also me to have set up covers in certain places in down time) While he will go with the theme with the Warlock. Also in the place he is running it. You need a lience to do arcane magic and they really do not like sorcerers, so warlocks are even worse. (i dont think I would pass the exam). Crafter is going to do all he can do to be all knowing. Magic is the best way to do most things. So I wanted skill back up and Warlocks are kinda a spell caster.



Too bad Races of Destiny isn't allowed. It would be a good resource in this endeavour. There is a feat called Able Learner that makes cross class skills only cost 1 point.

Beguilers are cool. :smallsmile:


Nope. Some bonuses, like deflection, would still apply.

as a rogue wizard you get nearly every skill in the game, and the way the GM is running it you get the skill points on both but only to spend on the class skill for the class (rgoue skills per level only on rouge skills etc)

[DMVerdandi]

I would suggest playing a Wizard//Factotum.
The rest of it is redundant. Sneak attacks require too much set up.
Two-weapon fighting is god-aweful, and if you REALLY want it, make a martial wizard.


Going from 2/3 experience to half for fighter is madness. If you can, use alternative class features to do everything you need. Also, you are going to need a pretty high dex for TWF trees, so be ready for that. Personally, I would pick up unarmed fighting feats instead. Improved and superior unarmed attack give you great damage, and buffing greater mighty wallop turns you into Negi Springfield. Arcane strike takes it even further.

Sure hitting a lot looks cool, but hitting once well is all you need.

To be honest, you don't really even need the other side of factotum. You simply need 1 level with able learner, and spend the rest as a wizard. factotum 1/Wizard 19.
Sure, you lose a level of spell casting, but you gain a much quicker rate of leveling up, and with a wizard, you are pretty much going to smoke everyone else anyway.

There IS a tradeoff though, so if you REALLY want to do well, and you don't care about the XP, then Use a Martial Domain wizard(Spontaneous divination)//Factotum1/Spirit Lion totem Barbarian 1/Factotum +2/Chameleon 10/Feat Rogue 6

If somehow you can get your wisdom score above 16, I would only use divine spells with the chameleon, as you can cast all of them as a cleric. that is INSANE.
Since most spells are on the divine lists anyway, and those that aren't are generally on the wizard list, you should be fine.


Wear black, use a katana, say NIN-NIN-NIN, and you are done.

[Telonius]

Factotum would have been my suggestion as well, but it's from Dungeonscape (not one of the Completes).

[Mental-State]

I would suggest playing a Wizard//Factotum.
The rest of it is redundant. Sneak attacks require too much set up.
Two-weapon fighting is god-aweful, and if you REALLY want it, make a martial wizard.

maritial wizard not going to happen or i would of
Factotum, if he banned beguiler do you reall think he would allow this. Also its not in the compelte series so its not a instant yes.


Going from 2/3 experience to half for fighter is madness. If you can, use alternative class features to do everything you need. Also, you are going to need a pretty high dex for TWF trees, so be ready for that. Personally, I would pick up unarmed fighting feats instead. Improved and superior unarmed attack give you great damage, and buffing greater mighty wallop turns you into Negi Springfield. Arcane strike takes it even further.

Sure hitting a lot looks cool, but hitting once well is all you need.


Im getting it just for daggerspell mage so I can dual weild blurstrike daggers for one touch attack sneak attack a turn. I can choose to just attack with either in a round.
The first round will be the good round with spell storing weapons i can attack twice for 4 spell + sneak attack. 4 combusts at level 10 with a sneak attack for 20d6 +5d6 sneak attack then again with the other dagger (not accounting adding chill touch and corrosive grasp. Im not looking to attack more than twice in a round either. mostly on the 1st round. having 20 sneak attacks a day i think is enough



To be honest, you don't really even need the other side of factotum. You simply need 1 level with able learner, and spend the rest as a wizard. factotum 1/Wizard 19.
Sure, you lose a level of spell casting, but you gain a much quicker rate of leveling up, and with a wizard, you are pretty much going to smoke everyone else anyway.


this is why I wanted the fighter for the first few levels. I will not be losing too much exp and I can drop it and get exp like the rest of the party (expect mr crafter)



There IS a tradeoff though, so if you REALLY want to do well, and you don't care about the XP, then Use a Martial Domain wizard(Spontaneous divination)//Factotum1/Spirit Lion totem Barbarian 1/Factotum +2/Chameleon 10/Feat Rogue 6

If somehow you can get your wisdom score above 16, I would only use divine spells with the chameleon, as you can cast all of them as a cleric. that is INSANE.
Since most spells are on the divine lists anyway, and those that aren't are generally on the wizard list, you should be fine.



would love to do this but I dont think he will allow it.
Chameleon - again like factotum
not going to allow Domain wizard
or feat rouge =/

sorry to make it hard for you


one question though

Daggercast (Ex):a daggerspell mage can deliver a touch spell with a dagger attack (either a melee touch attack or a normal melee attack, but not with a thrown dagger).

Daggerspell Flurry (Ex): a daggerspell mage can quicken one spell as part of a full attack with his daggers

this would mean to me that I can cast one spell and hit with a dagger but as a full attack i get to cast another spell which means I can get 2 spells off a turn to my dex mod?

[Mental-State]

ok I have been thinking and I think im going to do this


change skill focus (bluff) to spell focus illusion

rogue5/dagger spell mage10/????//wizard5/shadowcraft mage5/????
maybe shadowcrafter after?
I know you are meant to be a gnome but the thing is im part of the church of Shaar and you really think there wouldn't be anyone with that class in the reglion. so I think I can get him to agree to this class. Im going to be taking the shadow template at some point which is mostly for flavour

drop the fighter at lvl 4 so I can get dagger weapon focus or i could get rid of tenacious magic for it (could always get it later)

this sound better?

[Mental-State]

*bump*
any advice?