Initiatiing Action for ToB Strikes

[NecessaryWeevil]

Hello, Playground!

I've asked enough stupid questions in the other forum I frequent, so I'll give them a break. Here's my latest question:

Some confusion arose in our game last night regarding ToB strikes. I'll try to be as clear as possible but I'm still confused. Entangling Blade (for example) is a Standard Action and a Melee Attack. Defensive Rebuke is a Swift Action and a Boost.

So: is a Strike a Melee attack in the same sense that swinging your sword, tripping, or disarming is? In other words, does it constitute one attack (if you're entitled to several), which is why it's described as a Standard Action (which is what's required to make a single attack)? Suppose then that I am making a Full Attack, and I am entitled to two attacks due to my BAB. I activate Defensive Rebuke as a Swift Action. Can I also initiate Entangling Blade, as one of those attacks? If I miss my first attack and hit with my second, do I fail to land Entangling Blade but still do normal damage (and get the Defensive Rebuke effect) with the second attack?

I think the answer might be "No, you have to either make one attack as your Maneuver or a vanilla Full Attack," but I'd like to get your opinions.

Thank you!

[Renen]

ToB isnt my strongest point but I am pretty sure you are right.
Boosters CAN be used with full attack (because they are swift actions) but strikes take up a standard action not "one attack"

[OldTrees1]

A Strike is a standard action, not an attack action.

You cannot use Strikes as part of a full attack or as an attack of opportunity.

This is one of the drawbacks of ToB style combat.

[MightyPirate]

If I'm not misremembering there are some strikes that can be used with a full attack but they will specifically say so in the text of the maneuver. Time stands still may actually be the only maneuver like this, I don't remember.

Stances and boosts can be used along side a full attack though some boosts may only affect one attack rather than all of them I believe. You'd have to read each to be sure what the effect is.

[Knaight]

Stance: You have a stance. Just keeping it active costs absolutely nothing, and doesn't prevent you from doing anything (other than a handful of Stone Dragon stances that immobilize you). Switching between them actually has a cost, but I'd have to look this up.

Strike: You can make one strike in a turn, and it uses your standard action. You still have your move action to do whatever with. In the case of Time Stands Still, the effect of your standard action is to trigger a pair of full attacks.

Boost: You spend your 1 swift action, and can still do whatever else. That leaves you with only one boost in use at once, but you can use a Boost then a Strike, or use a Boost then a Full attack, or even use a Boost then do some sort of full round movement action.

[MightyPirate]

Pretty sure switching stances is a swift action, or at least a free action that you can only do once per turn.

Time Stands Still is a full action for two full attacks yes, kind of a special case.

Boosts can also be used before an attack of opportunity I believe but you would have to trigger it on your turn and hope someone provokes against you. initiators are pretty good at forcing that though as I recall.

So long as we're talking actions it's probably also good to mention counters and how they're incompatible with boosts because you can't take a swift action and an immediate action in the same turn.

This is helpful to get me remembering my initiating for Path of War. I just picked up the pdf and am hoping to use it soon. Thanks for asking these things so I won't have to. :smallbiggrin:

[Eldest]

So long as we're talking actions it's probably also good to mention counters and how they're incompatible with boosts because you can't take a swift action and an immediate action in the same turn.

Yes you can. You use up the swift for your next turn with the immediate action. IIRC, of course.

[Terazul]

Time Stands Still is a full-round action, yes. You don't get to move (barring a 5 ft step or shenanigans) in the same round you're initiating it. Don't say it's a standard that creates a full-attack, because that's both incorrect and also confusing.

Maneuvers use the amount of time they say they take. Typically in a round you have a single Swift, Standard, and Move action (and infinite Free but whatever). You can forgo a Standard and Move for a single Full-Round action. An attack or full attack are just a type of standard or full-round action respectively; you can't mix in maneuvers (generally) because they have their own actions.

So yeah, most maneuvers are standard actions, meaning you can move and then pop one off, or not move and use your standard full-attacks (or whatever else you wanna do with your actions). Swift action maneuvers can of course be used at any point during your turn (assuming you didn't use it up on an Immediate action last turn). Some maneuvers use a full-round action meaning you can't move before or after them; you can still use your swift to boost them (or do whatever) since it's outside of that.

[MightyPirate]

Yes you can. You use up the swift for your next turn with the immediate action. IIRC, of course.

Sort of correct. I had to look it up but it seems this is the case for immediate actions when they're used on someone else's turn. However if you use a boost and then say encounter something you could counter before your turn is over (an attack of opportunity for example) then you could not also counter. This would also be the case if you switched your stance earlier that turn instead of using a boost.

Unrelated but while looking that up I discovered that I shouldn't have been giving my players underwater 5 foot steps with successful swim checks last session. It's too late to save my giant hermit crab but thanks for that anyway.