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View Full Version : Class choice/ Homebrew Help, feeling indecisive



Nishant
2014-03-13, 10:22 PM
Hey, Nishant again, just having a lot of issues with some class selection, and wondering if I want to make a gestalt class.

I'm trying currently choosing between Crusader (What I believe to be the best option thusfar), Knight (Best flavor, but pretty bad), or Paladin (Not much into a a divine caster. You guys have already helped me understand casting, but I always seem to prefer martial with some buffs. beyond that, it won't mix too well with the backstory without falling). I am also interested in the Shadowbane Inquistor's non-magic progression, particularly that of the Smite/ designate as corrupt skill line.

Second option, homebrew plan
If that doesn't work, I'm looking to make a home brew to fill the class appropriately. If it hits that point, I would sacrifice the mount and divine casting, as well as Aura of courage, detect evil, and remove disease. Turn/ Rebuke undead would be nice, but not required, and Smiting would be more akin to the Crusader's or Shadowbane Inquisitors, as well as have a larger use per day. I like the concept of the knightly challenge, and wouldn't mind a variant version, albeit probably weaker due to the mashing of classes and to maintain balance, possibly an x/day will check to challenge an opponent to single combat exclusively, as a mind effecting ability, and only targeting sentient creatures. Finally, Mettle and Combat manuevers are nice, and I would love to have them, but if I have to do without, I can accept doing so. MAD is actually okay by me, and likely will be so, due to the class features I am trying to meld. Lay on Hands and disease immunity would also be nice, though not required either.

my stat rolls are as follows;
16 15 14 18 16 14

The character's general backstory is in the following Spoiler;

Aristaea was an active soldier of the church in a psuedo-holy war marched upon by his theocratic nation, Causan, and was actually progessing through the ranks with great fervor, believing in the word of his nation, claiming that this was the will of their God (possibly Heironous). As the war raged on, however, he began to slowly have doubts, which were solidified towards the end of the war. With most of the war force dead or worn, Aristaea, his commander, and a handful of remaining soldiers pressed through the final keep. In time they made it to the chamber's of their enemy, who was with a woman he had grown to fancy. The man pleaded for mercy, and surrender, the last two years being an offensive push into enemy territory rather than the defense that it had been prior. Rather than honor the man's request, Aristaea's commander cut the man down, and went for the woman who attended him, claiming her evil by association, a plague that must be stopped.

Enraged and shocked by his commander's cruelty and self-imposed righteousness, Aristaea came to the woman's side, challenging his commander in combat for the woman's life. He succeeded and felled his commander, though he suffered heavy wounds (Deep Scar flaw) from this, dismissed by his comrades and faced with exile from his Order.

Aristaea now travels with the woman he saved, and who tended to his wounds. Though he has no hate for the Gods, he has fallen from good, seeing it potentially as beguiling and tainting as evil in some circumstance, corrupting the hearts of men with the illusion of righteousness. He travels as an adventurer now, aiding those when he can while trying to find a place in the world while coping with his past and the atrocities he himself may have wrought.

Knaight
2014-03-13, 10:43 PM
The Crusader sounds like the best option here. You can play one and just pilfer the Knight's flavor, so that gets you the best of both worlds.

Nishant
2014-03-13, 10:49 PM
Alright, I'll definitely consider it. my big hesitation is that there are few smite attempts, but I really don't want to be too picky on it. This is a character that I plan to use continuously, so I want to make sure I'm really happy about his class, flaws, characteristics and variants, everything.

Sir Chuckles
2014-03-13, 10:50 PM
Yes, the beauty of the ToB classes is that they're flavor is extremely versatile, and their abilities fit into basically every other martial class almost as well as, if not better than, the class it's aiming to be.

If you're doing a Gestalt, a Paladin Gestalt wouldn't be terrible, even given your back story. In fact, an atonement and possibly alternate alignment Paladin would fit perfectly. There's ACFs for trading spellcasting for fiddly bits, if you're worried about that.

That also opens the possibility of a Ruby Knight Vindicator, if you can make the whole "Wee Jas" thing work.

Nishant
2014-03-13, 10:55 PM
I figured as much. My DM and I really like the ToB, though for some reason he has a general dislike of the mechanics of the crusader class. I suppose they are a little strange.




If you're doing a Gestalt, a Paladin Gestalt wouldn't be terrible, even given your back story. In fact, an atonement and possibly alternate alignment Paladin would fit perfectly. There's ACFs for trading spellcasting for fiddly bits, if you're worried about that.

Crap, I meant homebrew. Okay, I'm going to edit the spoiler a little.

OldTrees1
2014-03-13, 11:00 PM
Hey, Nishant again, just having a lot of issues with some class selection, and wondering if I want to make a gestalt class.

I'm trying currently choosing between Crusader (What I believe to be the best option thusfar), Knight (Best flavor, but pretty bad), or Paladin (Not much into a a divine caster.

Crusader is a good mechanical class to represent the Knight flavor you want.

However if it was as easy as that I doubt you would be feeling indecisive. So I suspect there are aspects of Knight and Paladin that you don't feel Crusader can capture. My suggestion would be to identify these aspects you want and ask your DM about incorporating them into Crusader (as Manuevers, Stances or even trading out class features like Steely Resolve or Furious Retribution).


Edit:
So in your case I would
1) Find out what about the Crusader mechanics he doesn't like. If it is the recharge mechanic then trade it with the warblade recharge mechanic. If it is some of the other class features see #2.
2) Trade out Furious counterstrike and steely resolve for more Smites per day.

Nishant
2014-03-13, 11:07 PM
Crusader is a good mechanical class to represent the Knight flavor you want.

However if it was as easy as that I doubt you would be feeling indecisive. So I suspect there are aspects of Knight and Paladin that you don't feel Crusader can capture. My suggestion would be to identify these aspects you want and ask your DM about incorporating them into Crusader (as Manuevers, Stances or even trading out class features like Steely Resolve or Furious Retribution).

Exactly. My DM is quite lenient and supports creativity, so I'd like to replace the Steely Resolve/Furious Counterstrike in place of more smites, or perhaps smites and lay on hands. I like the idea of delayed damage, but I feel a bit odd using it, as it is a foreign concept to me. What do you guys believe would be a fair tradeoff?

Nishant
2014-03-13, 11:14 PM
So in your case I would
1) Find out what about the Crusader mechanics he doesn't like. If it is the recharge mechanic then trade it with the warblade recharge mechanic. If it is some of the other class features see #2.
2) Trade out Furious counterstrike and steely resolve for more Smites per day.

It's him as a player against the class, as opposed to his 'DMing'

How much smiting do you think would be appropriate? I suppose the paladin only has five smites per day, but even so..

OldTrees1
2014-03-13, 11:16 PM
There exists a feat that grants +2 smites per day.

So you probably should get Paladin smite and lay on hands progression. Personally I would probably give Smite 3/day + 1/5HD/day instead of paladin smite progression

Oh and do note I am giving a low estimate.

Fax Celestis
2014-03-13, 11:19 PM
There exists a feat that grants +2 smites per day.

It also doesn't specify what happens if you have multiple sources of smiting, so get a couple and get a whole bunch of smites.

OldTrees1
2014-03-13, 11:22 PM
It also doesn't specify what happens if you have multiple sources of smiting, so get a couple and get a whole bunch of smites.

I was using it as a jumping off point for balancing homebrew, not as a build suggestion.

Nishant
2014-03-13, 11:33 PM
True; Though I will go with Smite rather than 'Smite Evil'

So, to make sure I'm understanding you correctly, 3/day+1/5HD would mean 7 smites per day, right? Sorry, I'm rather tired, so my brain isn't working X3

And I will take Minor build advice, but not 'YOU MUST PLAY THIS' type stuff. Feel free to give your experiences though. Crusader is a new class for me, and although I am making a variant, it's best to be equipped with the knowledge of what I'm getting into.

OldTrees1
2014-03-13, 11:40 PM
True; Though I will go with Smite rather than 'Smite Evil'

So, to make sure I'm understanding you correctly, 3/day+1/5HD would mean 7 smites per day, right? Sorry, I'm rather tired, so my brain isn't working X3

And I will take Minor build advice, but not 'YOU MUST PLAY THIS' type stuff. Feel free to give your experiences though. Crusader is a new class for me, and although I am making a variant, it's best to be equipped with the knowledge of what I'm getting into.

3/day + 1/5HD/day
means (3+1/5HD)/day
means 3 at 1st level and 7 at 20th level

Crusader has a high optimization floor which means it is hard to screw up. Furthermore you sound experienced in D&D. So I think you have all the knowledge you need.

Nishant
2014-03-13, 11:50 PM
Thanks to forums and my DM, yeah. I've been able to pick up on theory relatively easily. That being said, I have inclinations towards weaker builds. I can't help it- I love impromptu throwing of greatswords and sword-and-board(which may work with crusader)

I kid you not. The was litterally my first attack action in D&D. Found a dead adventurer, picked up his greatsword, ambushed by goblins, threw the greatsword into it's face before drawing a sword and shield; An adventurer was born that day.