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Vknight
2014-03-13, 11:28 PM
Beyond, Guardian Generation, Mechwarrior, Mekton any good mecha systems
Along with this any opinions on those mech systems.

My personal sides with Mekton and GGG. For their customization something that I don't see in great enough ability in other systems.

And does anyone know about any Actual Play podcasts which is a mecha game or involves giant robots in some fashion or another.
Same with Dresden Files on the podcast avenue; I am aware of Knights of the Night's game

Tengu_temp
2014-03-14, 10:32 AM
Mekton Zeta is too fiddly and doesn't work for super robots well. Also it works on the Cyberpunk 2020 mechanics, which suck.
GGG is completely focused on fighting and too obviously inspired by Super Robot Wars. I don't like it much.
Mechwarrior/Battletech is good at western-style mecha, which are pretty much tanks on legs, and bad at any other kind of giant robots.

My system of choice for mecha is Mutants and Masterminds 2e with the Mecha and Manga splat. It's an effects-based system, so it offers extremely wide and relatively simple customization without getting bogged down by hundreds of tiny things like Mekton Zeta or GURPS.

Vknight
2014-03-14, 10:51 AM
Mekton Zeta is too fiddly and doesn't work for super robots well. Also it works on the Cyberpunk 2020 mechanics, which suck.
GGG is completely focused on fighting and too obviously inspired by Super Robot Wars. I don't like it much.
Mechwarrior/Battletech is good at western-style mecha, which are pretty much tanks on legs, and bad at any other kind of giant robots.

My system of choice for mecha is Mutants and Masterminds 2e with the Mecha and Manga splat. It's an effects-based system, so it offers extremely wide and relatively simple customization without getting bogged down by hundreds of tiny things like Mekton Zeta or GURPS.

1d10 + Modifiers sucks?
Roll die to determine location hit. Is fiddly and complicated?
Super Robots are just 1000+ point mechs
This confuses me I've looked it over and it doesn't seem difficult or fiddly. Am I missing something?

Fair enough on the GGG but it works. Having a problem with a game for its obvious combat setup, that is designed to be based off a game for ease of use in playing mecha isn't a big issue
And also true on Battletech
But any other good systems for mecha.

M&M's mecha based system I do not like its too effect based. Effect based games only really work for superhero's, and similar things like super robots. And super Robots does not make up the majority of Mecha. Gundam is a Real Robots series, and that is closer too what one is going with

Oh
Everything has too be neat this does this and nothing else.
Can't have 3 different options that give similar in game benefits even if they have 3 radically different applications in universe.
Thought Control and Verniers have too be one thing you purchase. And after you purchase it you say its one or the other, or both. With no real mechanical difference
So because its not X effect that is easy to understand that is the problem with Mekton. Something that is not a problem.
A game shouldn't always do that and go, oh because these two things are similar combine them. Magic and Psionics are different and people like that divide for the obvious reason it shows just how different they are.

skyth
2014-03-14, 12:06 PM
I'm only familiar with two mecha games...Mechwarrior and Robotech.

Mechwarrior has issues where the board game came first and the role-playing game was shoehorned into the board game. There are also 4 different editions which are radically different from one another (I prefer 2nd edition personally).

Robotech is based on the Palladium system. I generally like it, but certain things are unbalanced (Auto dodge and characters with high PP).

There's always the Hero System and Spacemaster has Armored Assault, but that's a subsystem. Neither is a mech game, but can be used in one.

Vknight
2014-03-14, 12:38 PM
I'm only familiar with two mecha games...Mechwarrior and Robotech.

Mechwarrior has issues where the board game came first and the role-playing game was shoehorned into the board game. There are also 4 different editions which are radically different from one another (I prefer 2nd edition personally).

Robotech is based on the Palladium system. I generally like it, but certain things are unbalanced (Auto dodge and characters with high PP).

There's always the Hero System and Spacemaster has Armored Assault, but that's a subsystem. Neither is a mech game, but can be used in one.

Well thank you.
I've looked over Battle Tech is good for big clunky robots, I'd say but yeah suffers from the radical distinction between versions. Hmmm I'm not sure which version appealed the most too me

Yeah lets avoid Palladium like the scourge it can be/most of the time is

Hero System has Mech rules interesting, I will check that out; and no clue what Spacemaster is. I just don't recognize the name at least

skyth
2014-03-14, 01:08 PM
Hero system can be used for a mech game...You have to design the mechs as vehicles. There is no 'mech' setting...You have to make your own.

Spacemaster is the sci-fi version of Rolemaster if that helps. Never used the Armored Assault rules, so not sure how they match up.

I actually enjoyed Robotech, and if I was going for a mech game, I'd probably use that. It has some issues, but it's pretty fast...Battletech can be slow and fidley at times.

Ceiling_Squid
2014-03-14, 06:25 PM
1d10 + Modifiers sucks?
Roll die to determine location hit. Is fiddly and complicated?
Super Robots are just 1000+ point mechs
This confuses me I've looked it over and it doesn't seem difficult or fiddly. Am I missing something?



Color me confused too. Keep in mind, Tengu has a hate-on for the Interlock system. He does reiterate it every time he posts in a thread that even mentions Mekton. :smallbiggrin:

In my personal experience, it's a bit rough around the edges, but perfectly playable.

I think the biggest legitimate complaint about Mekton Zeta is the fact that Reflex is a god stat. Everything remotely useful in combat relies on Reflex.

That, and mecha-generation can be headache inducing. In exchange, however, you get some pretty impressive customization.

Having played Mekton, I like it. Combat is refreshingly lethal (especially with G-factor optional rules) and no more complicated than DnD.

Apparently not for everyone. :smalltongue:

Vknight
2014-03-15, 12:48 AM
Hero system can be used for a mech game...You have to design the mechs as vehicles. There is no 'mech' setting...You have to make your own.

Spacemaster is the sci-fi version of Rolemaster if that helps. Never used the Armored Assault rules, so not sure how they match up.

I actually enjoyed Robotech, and if I was going for a mech game, I'd probably use that. It has some issues, but it's pretty fast...Battletech can be slow and fidley at times.

Ahhh well lets avoid that then.
Hmmm ok will check it. May be ok may not be
Hmmm will think about that too


Color me confused too. Keep in mind, Tengu has a hate-on for the Interlock system. He does reiterate it every time he posts in a thread that even mentions Mekton. :smallbiggrin:

In my personal experience, it's a bit rough around the edges, but perfectly playable.

I think the biggest legitimate complaint about Mekton Zeta is the fact that Reflex is a god stat. Everything remotely useful in combat relies on Reflex.

That, and mecha-generation can be headache inducing. In exchange, however, you get some pretty impressive customization.

Having played Mekton, I like it. Combat is refreshingly lethal (especially with G-factor optional rules) and no more complicated than DnD.

Apparently not for everyone. :smalltongue:

He has a hate for 1d10 + Modifiers? Isn't it just d20 with a smaller die? And more manageable Target Numbers?

Reflex being a god stat I'm ok with as its mecha and when a giant robot fight happens it makes sense. Could be worse though I agree it is the most powerful stat. Except Luck if luck is used for PSI as I've heard about.

Mecha Generation being a little headache I can see. But the impressive customization and guide for step by step process helps a lot. You have an easy way too keep track of everything

Lethal Combat is always a plus rather then I stab out your spine and you walk away unharmed.

True but its no reason to claim a system sucks until you've looked at it from every angle.
D20 is a bad system because it puts the emphasis on the die roll and not the character meaning its more about luck then how you built the character. That is problematic and leaves a frustrating element as the thief can botch a roll and in most games have no way too fix it so he's caught

Tengu_temp
2014-03-15, 08:31 AM
My hate for the Interlock system comes from Cyberpunk 2020, actually. Here's why I don't like it:
1. The basic system is dirt simple, too simple, but some parts like damage calculation are way too complex. There's almost no middle ground.
2. The system expects, pretty much forces you to heavily specialize. The fact that difficulty scales in increments of 5, against a roll of 1d10+modifiers, means that someone who doesn't specialize in a certain field will never or almost never achieve a hard difficulty roll. Very hard? Forget it.
3. Reflex is king. Other stats almost don't matter. I suppose this fits a real robot setting, at least.
4. Various stupid game balance issues that are mostly a part of Cyberpunk 2020, like the fact that body armor will stop most firearms cold, so the game expects you to pack super-heavy armor and super-heavy weapons. Where did handgun-wielding guys in trenchcoats disappear to?

Super robots are a different thing than just high-power real robots. That might've been the case in the eighties, when Mekton Zeta came out, but it's not the case anymore. They can often do all kinds of strange stuff that real robots simply can't do. That game doesn't let them do it either.



M&M's mecha based system I do not like its too effect based. Effect based games only really work for superhero's, and similar things like super robots. And super Robots does not make up the majority of Mecha. Gundam is a Real Robots series, and that is closer too what one is going with


Actually, I only played real robot campaigns with M&M, except one that mixed one where some mecha were reals and others were supers. You just have to realize that 99% of mecha is such soft sci-fi that the deep, technical specifications of various system really doesn't matter. What matters is what the robot's systems can do. And an effect-based system covers that excellently.



Oh
Everything has too be neat this does this and nothing else.
Can't have 3 different options that give similar in game benefits even if they have 3 radically different applications in universe.
Thought Control and Verniers have too be one thing you purchase. And after you purchase it you say its one or the other, or both. With no real mechanical difference

That's simply not true for M&M. Adjusting powers on the fly is a crucial part of that game. Between Extra Effort, Hero Points and various combat-oriented feats (especially ones specifically made for mecha), you have a wide variety of tactical options and can do much more than just "I shoot my gun" every round.

Vknight
2014-03-15, 01:09 PM
My hate for the Interlock system comes from Cyberpunk 2020, actually. Here's why I don't like it:
1. The basic system is dirt simple, too simple, but some parts like damage calculation are way too complex. There's almost no middle ground.
2. The system expects, pretty much forces you to heavily specialize. The fact that difficulty scales in increments of 5, against a roll of 1d10+modifiers, means that someone who doesn't specialize in a certain field will never or almost never achieve a hard difficulty roll. Very hard? Forget it.
3. Reflex is king. Other stats almost don't matter. I suppose this fits a real robot setting, at least.
4. Various stupid game balance issues that are mostly a part of Cyberpunk 2020, like the fact that body armor will stop most firearms cold, so the game expects you to pack super-heavy armor and super-heavy weapons. Where did handgun-wielding guys in trenchcoats disappear to?

Super robots are a different thing than just high-power real robots. That might've been the case in the eighties, when Mekton Zeta came out, but it's not the case anymore. They can often do all kinds of strange stuff that real robots simply can't do. That game doesn't let them do it either.



Actually, I only played real robot campaigns with M&M, except one that mixed one where some mecha were reals and others were supers. You just have to realize that 99% of mecha is such soft sci-fi that the deep, technical specifications of various system really doesn't matter. What matters is what the robot's systems can do. And an effect-based system covers that excellently.



That's simply not true for M&M. Adjusting powers on the fly is a crucial part of that game. Between Extra Effort, Hero Points and various combat-oriented feats (especially ones specifically made for mecha), you have a wide variety of tactical options and can do much more than just "I shoot my gun" every round.

Fair enough but I don't think that the game Mekton should be judged that harshly for using the same system
Agreed on the armor thing. But then again armor costs a money

Your super robots statement confuses me as I can make a robot that fuses with a different robot and then grows into a starship sized robot then transforms into a dragon. Its all in the Advanced Technical Manual

I could argue that, on many levels especially with the fact you then start getting games were the person with fire powers can't control fire instead he create an effect that controls fire.

Extra Effort & Hero Points let you boost a power, make rerolls etc. They change the power once. So it still is I do this once and bam I used a resource for it. Rather then oh I have these and these so I can do this.
If your just sitting around saying I shoot my gun that is a problem of a different nature

Tengu_temp
2014-03-15, 01:51 PM
Your super robots statement confuses me as I can make a robot that fuses with a different robot and then grows into a starship sized robot then transforms into a dragon. Its all in the Advanced Technical Manual

None of this is new or special, super robots could do all this since the 70s. But try building Gurren Lagann, with all of its abilities, and suddenly it gets much harder. Try building Aquarion, and it becomes impossible.

Mutants and Masterminds, on the other hand, lets you build those mecha easily.


Extra Effort & Hero Points let you boost a power, make rerolls etc. They change the power once. So it still is I do this once and bam I used a resource for it. Rather then oh I have these and these so I can do this.

Then just buy those extra effects as alternate powers. "Oh I have these and these so I can do this" is precisely how an effect-based system works. The only difference is that instead of buying Part X and it letting you do Effect Y, you buy Effect Y and then fluff it as being enabled by Part X.

Flayerman
2014-03-15, 03:17 PM
Both Giant Guardian Generation and its successor, Battle Century G, are fine for robot action. If you want something that can handle robots and also work on foot, I recommend taking a system you like that fits the tone of the on-foot stuff - say, FantasyCraft, SpyCraft, whatever - and then using Battle Century G or GGG for the robot fight portions.

It honestly comes together much better. I think I like Battle Century G more overall, and it's so far been less breakable, but my players are still waffling between the swap.

I've been running a Super Robot Wars game in GGG 1.7 for the past year, and we're about to move to the third major "season" of the game, so I can say with fair certainty that I like it a lot.

Vknight
2014-03-15, 08:19 PM
Both Giant Guardian Generation and its successor, Battle Century G, are fine for robot action. If you want something that can handle robots and also work on foot, I recommend taking a system you like that fits the tone of the on-foot stuff - say, FantasyCraft, SpyCraft, whatever - and then using Battle Century G or GGG for the robot fight portions.

It honestly comes together much better. I think I like Battle Century G more overall, and it's so far been less breakable, but my players are still waffling between the swap.

I've been running a Super Robot Wars game in GGG 1.7 for the past year, and we're about to move to the third major "season" of the game, so I can say with fair certainty that I like it a lot.

So their is an update too GGG thanks for that information
And I'll compare and see how the two work