Clarification on magical bows

[montoya]

Just to be sure a +2 longbow firing +1 arrows does not confer a +3 bonus correct? Instead the +2 bow takes precendent and all attacks are made at +2 attack and damage right? Also firing an arrow of fire from the same bow DOES confer the extra fire damage correct? We have a naysayer in our group so I would just like a second opinion so I could show him he's wrong. (happens to be the DM).

[Der_DWSage]

You have the right of it-same type bonuses do not stack, only the highest takes effect. Just like having a +2 Constitution amulet and a +4 Constitution belt, you'd only get the effects of the belt.

Be sure to show him the relevant information from the SRD. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicWeapons.htm)


Ranged Weapons and Ammunition
The enhancement bonus from a ranged weapon does not stack with the enhancement bonus from ammunition. Only the higher of the two enhancement bonuses applies.

[Sir Chuckles]

Do not that this applies with all same-type bonuses. Bull Strength and Gauntlets of Ogre power do not stack, and all that jazz.

For a bow example:
+1 Bow firing +1 arrow= +1 attack
+2 Bow firing +3 arrow= +3 attack
+3 Flaming Bow firing normal arrow= +3 Flaming attack
Normal bow firing +1 Flaming arrow= +1 Flaming attack
+2 Flaming Bow firing +1 Bane arrow= +2 Flaming Bane attack

[TuggyNE]

Do not that this applies with all same-type bonuses. Bull Strength and Gauntlets of Ogre power do not stack, and all that jazz.

For a bow example:
+1 Bow firing +1 arrow= +1 attack
+2 Bow firing +3 arrow= +3 attack
+3 Flaming Bow firing normal arrow= +3 Flaming attack
Normal bow firing +1 Flaming arrow= +1 Flaming attack
+2 Flaming Bow firing +1 Bane arrow= +2 Flaming Bane attack

This is correct in whole and in part. Nice examples.

[montoya]

Do not that this applies with all same-type bonuses. Bull Strength and Gauntlets of Ogre power do not stack, and all that jazz.

For a bow example:
+1 Bow firing +1 arrow= +1 attack
+2 Bow firing +3 arrow= +3 attack
+3 Flaming Bow firing normal arrow= +3 Flaming attack
Normal bow firing +1 Flaming arrow= +1 Flaming attack
+2 Flaming Bow firing +1 Bane arrow= +2 Flaming Bane attack

Great examples thank you very much!

[docnessuno]

Do not that this applies with all same-type bonuses. Bull Strength and Gauntlets of Ogre power do not stack, and all that jazz.

For a bow example:
+1 Bow firing +1 arrow= +1 attack
+2 Bow firing +3 arrow= +3 attack
+3 Flaming Bow firing normal arrow= +3 Flaming attack
Normal bow firing +1 Flaming arrow= +1 Flaming attack
+2 Flaming Bow firing +1 Bane arrow= +2 Flaming Bane attack

Great example, correct for 3.5 and PF.
In 3.0, the enhancement bonus from ammunition and ranged weapons did stack.

[montoya]

And I assume using a +2 Flaming Bow with Lightning arrows would be d8+2+1d6 fire+1d6 cold.

[Diarmuid]

Assuming "Lightning Arrows" deal an additional 1d6 cold damage, then yes.

[montoya]

Assuming "Lightning Arrows" deal an additional 1d6 cold damage, then yes.

lol Oops, I meant 1d6 electric instead of cold.

[mabriss lethe]

Don't forget that you can also stack on an Energy Assault Crystal (MIC) for additional energy damage, assuming it doesn't have the same type as the bow or the arrow.

[montoya]

Don't forget that you can also stack on an Energy Assault Crystal (MIC) for additional energy damage, assuming it doesn't have the same type as the bow or the arrow.

Noted thank you....Unfortunately that is a banned book.

[HunterOfJello]

Noted thank you....Unfortunately that is a banned book.

please tell me that you're playing core-only or something and don't have a DM that idiotic

[montoya]

please tell me that you're playing core-only or something and don't have a DM that idiotic

I think he feels the book is OP like ToB and ToM.

[Flickerdart]

I think he feels the book is OP like ToB and ToM.
Tome of Magic, so OP that Truenamers are widely regarded as the worst character class in the game.

[montoya]

Tome of Magic, so OP that Truenamers are widely regarded as the worst character class in the game.

I've never used either.

[Andezzar]

For a bow example:
+1 Bow firing +1 arrow= +1 attack
+2 Bow firing +3 arrow= +3 attack
+3 Flaming Bow firing normal arrow= +3 Flaming attack
Normal bow firing +1 Flaming arrow= +1 Flaming attack
+2 Flaming Bow firing +1 Bane arrow= +2 Flaming Bane attack
Those examples are incomplete. Magical Enhancement bonuses go to attack and damage. So:
+1 Bow firing +1 arrow= +1 to attack, +1 to damage
+2 Bow firing +3 arrow= +3 to attack, +3 to damage
+3 Flaming Bow firing normal arrow= +3 to attack, +3 to damage +1d6 fire damage
Normal bow firing +1 Flaming arrow= +1 to attack, +1 to damage +1d6 fire damage
+2 Flaming Bow firing +1 Bane arrow= +2 to attack, +2 to damage +1d6 fire damage, if the target is of the appropriate creature type this changes to +3 to attack, +3 to damage +2d6 piercing damage +1d6 fire damage.

[Chronos]

Tome of Magic is often banned, but not because it's overpowered, just because most DMs (and most players, for that matter) aren't familiar with it. Which is unfortunate; it's a third of a really great book.

[montoya]

Tome of Magic is often banned, but not because it's overpowered, just because most DMs (and most players, for that matter) aren't familiar with it. Which is unfortunate; it's a third of a really great book.

ToB seems to be the same, when we first got the book we figured it was a standalone book and it wouldn't really work well with others. Maybe we should relook this.

[Kazudo]

So, as an additional question. Unless I'm just reading the books blind stumbling drunk again, do the arrows ever LOSE those enhancements? I believe there's a percentage chance of recovering fired arrows under specific circumstances, but more importantly, what about shooting at a monk with Snatch Arrows?

Can I make WAY too much money for essentially nothing with a large initial investment?!

[d13]

So, as an additional question. Unless I'm just reading the books blind stumbling drunk again, do the arrows ever LOSE those enhancements? I believe there's a percentage chance of recovering fired arrows under specific circumstances, but more importantly, what about shooting at a monk with Snatch Arrows?

Can I make WAY too much money for essentially nothing with a large initial investment?!



Magic Ammunition and Breakage
When a magic arrow, crossbow bolt, shuriken, or sling bullet misses its target, there is a 50% chance it breaks or otherwise is rendered useless. A magic arrow, bolt, bullet, or shuriken that hits is destroyed.




Deflect Arrows [General]
Prerequisites
(...)

Benefit
You must have at least one hand free (holding nothing) to use this feat. Once per round when you would normally be hit with a ranged weapon, you may deflect it so that you take no damage from it. You must be aware of the attack and not flat-footed.

Attempting to deflect a ranged weapon doesn’t count as an action. Unusually massive ranged weapons and ranged attacks generated by spell effects can’t be deflected.

Special
(...)


(Snatch Arrows says that "instead of deflecting, you can snatch", bleh).

I'd assume the arrow/shuriken/whatever gets destroyed, since it HAS to be a successful hit in order for the arrow to get deflected/snatched.

[Keld Denar]

You could just kill the archer and take his arrows. Thats the generally most efficient way to make money in D&D, and the least likely to cause issues with the DM.

Arrows break 100% of the time when they strike a target. They break 50% of the time when they miss. Generally, investing in expensive arrows is a poor decision in the long run. The exception to this is buying a handful of Bane arrows for a few different situations. Admantine Bane Construct arrows or Silver Bane Devil arrows are brutal in the proper application, but putting Bane on your bow is a less wise strategy unless you know your campaign is going to be featuring large numbers of your target foe.

[Kazudo]

So, essentially, with those quoted snippets, I'm gathering that as long as you intentionally miss your target, then 50% of the time the arrow will survive.

...And it keeps the enhancement conferred from the bow in the process?

[d13]

Nope.
The bow's magic features add up to the arrow's magic features to determine the hit/damage, but it doesn't transfer anything from bow to arrow.

[Kazudo]

Gotcha. My curiosity is sated! Thank you for clarification.

Any other magical projectile-based clarifications needed? :smallbiggrin:

[montoya]

I'd say this thread has satisfied my curiosity beyond expected!

[Phelix-Mu]

Also note that, even with the 3.0 version where bow enhancement bonuses and arrow enhancement bonuses stacked, archers still usually end up short some damage. Hank's energy bow can ameliorate that a bit, but, generally, the game overestimated the value of being able to stand back and shoot something for damage, deciding that that benefit was a tradeoff for less damage.

The reality is that even a mid-op barbarian can charge most things and kill them so fast that, despite being at greater risk than the archer, the barbarian is also likely to never get hurt due to enemy being split crown-to-groin. Thus, melee classes can dish out huge damage at little personal cost (usually...obviously there are enemies where this won't work), while archers deal less damage and have less actual advantage (especially considering the availability of wind wall and other defenses v archery).

In short, I have no idea why they changed it from the way it worked in 3.0. If you pay for nice stuff for your attacks, the stuff should work, imho.

[montoya]

Just one last thing, what about materials that bypass DR? Say cold iron, does the arrow have to be cold iron or just the bow or both?

[Sir Chuckles]

Just one last thing, what about materials that bypass DR? Say cold iron, does the arrow have to be cold iron or just the bow or both?

Being as your bow is wooden and therefore cannot be made of cold iron, the arrow has to be cold iron.

[montoya]

Being as your bow is a wooden and therefore cannot be made of cold iron, the arrow has to be cold iron.

Errrrr.....Yes.

[Der_DWSage]

It's...less that a bow is wooden, and more the fact that unless you intend to physically hit someone with the bow, then there's no reason it would cut through silver/Cold Iron/Adamantine DR.

So yes, the arrows themselves have to be made of that material to cut through special DR. The good news is that arrows are cheap.

[Sir Chuckles]

Now, if you were to attach a bow blade or used a Yuan-Ti Serpent bow, then you could make that part it out of whatever special material, but it would not impart said material onto it's arrows.

[Flickerdart]

ToB seems to be the same, when we first got the book we figured it was a standalone book and it wouldn't really work well with others. Maybe we should relook this.
Actually ToB (and to a lesser extent, ToM) were intended to be used with other books - almost all of the options presented in them can be dabbled in by characters with other classes, so long as they're willing to spend some feats, and a number of options in the books encourage multiclassing between the classes in them and classes in the Player's Handbook.