PDA

View Full Version : Need help making an evil character



KaotiX
2007-02-02, 05:47 PM
So... probably gonna start playing in an "evil campaign" tomorrow. I'm not a very experient player, and I'm having some trouble choosing a class for my new character. I first thought about a Drow Warlock, but then I read both are underpowered; then I thought about a Hexblade, but then I read both are underpowered; then I thought about a Shadowcaster, but then I read it's very inflexible... and perhaps underpowered. See what I mean?

I'd like to use an "evil class", but don't know which.

Can anyone help me here?

Thanks and sorry for my English.

Maxymiuk
2007-02-02, 05:51 PM
Play a wizard. It's (arguably) one of the most powerful classes in the game. And being "evil" is just a matter of how you roleplay.

NullAshton
2007-02-02, 05:58 PM
Don't care if you're underpowered? A drow warlock would be (I think) a very cool and fun character to play.

KaotiX
2007-02-02, 05:59 PM
@ Maxymiuk:

Well, of course, but those classes I mentioned all are evil "by nature", dealing with shadow power blah blah. And I think a wizard may be hard for me to play with... you see, by "not very experient player" I meant "hopeless noob". :smallbiggrin:

I'll speak with the other players anyway. Thanks.

@ NullAshton:

Looks like it could be, yes. You're probably right. Thanks.

ampcptlogic
2007-02-02, 05:59 PM
I'll start by asking a few questions:

What books are available to you?

What races are available to you?

When you say 'underpowered' do you mean 'not as powerful as comparable classes', 'doesn't actually do what it's designed to do', 'doesn't do what I want the character to do' or something else?

Do you want blatantly obvious evil, insidious evil (Cleric who won't tell anyone who he prays to), orderly evil (Wizard), constant murderous rampage evil (Barbarian), or some other flavor?

And as far as you English goes: my wife is an English professor. I read her student's papers and have seen native speakers with spelling and construction errors far worse than that for which you're apologizing. You have exactly one spelling error. And no one, IMHO, really expects correct, complex sentence construction on a message board.

Maxymiuk
2007-02-02, 06:01 PM
Ok, then play a drow barbarian and head into the Frenzied Berserker PrC. Nice, simple, and you'll be the ultimate caster bane.

Rhonstet
2007-02-02, 06:09 PM
If you've got to do it, and you want to do it right, I'd suggest flipping through Savage Species and Monster Manual. I've seen people who want to play amoral characters have a great deal of fun, and a lot easier time with the roleplaying, if they pick a race type beyond that which is found in the core books. Good examples are ogres, bugbears, imps, orcs, lizardmen, and the fiendish template.

Khantalas
2007-02-02, 06:11 PM
Shadowcasters aren't evil.

Though I recommend you play a half-drow half-shadow dragon shadowcaster with the shadow template. You'll be useless, but no one's more shadowy than you.

Woot Spitum
2007-02-02, 07:21 PM
Evil clerics are great. Sure, you can't spontaneously cast healing spells, but that's what wands are for, right? Plus, no one is better at controlling hordes of undead than a cleric. If you happen to own the Libris Mortis, all the better, more feats, spells, and abilities related to undead control, as well as some great prestige classes.

KaotiX
2007-02-02, 07:37 PM
@ ampcptlogic:

All the core books, Complete Arcane, Complete Warrior, Weapons of Legacy, Libris Mortis, Tome of Magic, PH2, Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting and a few others (most aren't mine, I believe the DM has something else).

Races... you mean which ones the DM allows us to use? Any one, I believe.

I'm not sure if they are actually underpowered. The Warlock really seems to be, but about the others I don't know. Can't yet analyze a character before playing some time with it.

I want to play the psycho-selfish-evil-freak, the one who kills the blacksmith because he *really* wanted that dagger, asks the dying Paladin how much would he pay to be taken to the nearest hospital (and steals whatever is in his pockets) and such. :smalltongue:

And about my English, that is very nice to know. Can you tell me what mistake was that so I don't commit it again?

Thanks.

@ Rhonstet:

Good idea! I'll take a look in the MM.

@ Khantalas:

That would certainly give Peter Pan some serious trouble. :smallbiggrin:

@ Woot Spitum:

Wouldn't the cleric be more of a support class? Not really my style.

PinkysBrain
2007-02-02, 08:11 PM
Actually the warlock is the most playable of the bunch, the hexblade starts out okay but will have problem keeping up at higher levels. Shadowcaster is just plain weak though. Another option is the Binder.

Be careful playing ECL>1 races, especially as a caster ... it hurts.

Krimm_Blackleaf
2007-02-02, 11:05 PM
I can see (for myself at least) and evil warmage being alot of fun.

ampcptlogic
2007-02-02, 11:20 PM
@ ampcptlogic:

And about my English, that is very nice to know. Can you tell me what mistake was that so I don't commit it again?

Thanks.

You wrote "experient" when you most likely meant experienced.

Woot Spitum
2007-02-02, 11:46 PM
Clerics are not necessarily just a support class if you play them right. They have some very nice personal range buffs (Divine Favor, Divine Power, and Righteous Might) that can make them into excellent melee fighters. If you go the undead commanding route, at lower levels you'll be able to use your rebuke ability to gain control of some low-level undead. Once you gain the animate dead spell you'll be able to create undead on your own, and if you take some of the corpsecrafter feats from the Libris Mortis, you'll be able to make your undead very powerful. Since you have the Libris Mortis, becoming an undead-commanding cleric is a good option, as the book has many options for anything relating to undead.

Also, check out the prestige classes in the Libris Mortis, there is some great evil villain material in there. Another interesting evil-themed prestige class is the Acolyte of the Skin from The Complete Arcane. If you play in the Forgotten Realms, a Red Wizard of Thay is definately an option to be considered.

TheOOB
2007-02-02, 11:57 PM
Aside from the paladin, any Core class can be played just fine as an evil character. What I'd do is look to see what your party allready has and base your character on that. If the party is missing a divine caster, play a cleric or druid, if they are missing an arcane caster, play a sorcerer or wizard and so on.

Trollios
2007-02-03, 12:04 AM
I'd love to play an evil barbarian/warmage. just a complete psychopath who goes into battle full tilt, blowing up stuff.

NecroPaladin
2007-02-03, 12:11 AM
Evil clerics are great. Sure, you can't spontaneously cast healing spells, but that's what wands are for, right? Plus, no one is better at controlling hordes of undead than a cleric. If you happen to own the Libris Mortis, all the better, more feats, spells, and abilities related to undead control, as well as some great prestige classes.

My favorite character that I ever played was a lawful evil gnome cleric (the exact opposite of standard gnomes) dedicated not to a god, but to the purpose of the tyranny/domination of the masses. I played him as a misfit from his own society due to a complete lack of a sense of humor, which led him more and more to mix in with human societies, which taught him a lust for power, which showed him that if you want to rule bad ENOUGH to gain divine spells...well, all hell breaks loose. Nothing like gaining a whole lot of notoriety, wearing imposing armor, and then watching the fun as people a full 3' taller than me ran for their lives when I decided that their town was rightfully mine.

EDIT: Heroes of Horror is also great villain fodder. The dread necromancer. tainted scholar, and corrupt avenger (although actually, corrupt avengers aren't evil) are villain CLASSICS.

DOUBLE EDIT:


Shadowcasters aren't evil.

Though I recommend you play a half-drow half-shadow dragon shadowcaster with the shadow template. You'll be useless, but no one's more shadowy than you.

Shadowdancer, too. If you can't meet the prereqs, try to find a "shadow" class that can.

Roderick_BR
2007-02-03, 12:20 AM
I agree with Woot. Make an evil cleric. Humans works better among the core races. Get a martial weapon like a hammer, sword, or maybe a flail. Get the war and evil domains, and always use the force first to make others submit. Everything you do, say you do in name of your god, sacrifices included. Always look down your "allies". Never show you are impressed with anyone. At best, show respect for those that are better in his area.
Don't ask money to heal someone. Instead, mention they'll "owe you a favor".

Or you can play a typical fighter. Get a good Strenght and Inteligente, and get feats like Bull Rush and Improved Trip. Use them to force people to submit to you, humiliate a few, and never show mercy for dangerous enemies. It's all about attitude ;)

gaymer_seattle
2007-02-03, 12:29 AM
at the risk of offending every one

blah blah blah blaahhh!

any class can be evil. arguable paladins don't last long that way, but that is where the black guard comes in. an evil character is not about what class they are, it's about the events that made them evil.

consider some of the well known evil characters. darth vadar. turned evil by his own desires and lack of faith. ridick (pitch black). yes he has a soul, and yes he has compassion, but he is DARK. he has no moral compass when it comes to killing those who get in his way.

why is your character evil? what made him/her go down that path? let the class be a function of that

The_Pope
2007-02-03, 12:51 AM
any class can be evil. arguable paladins don't last long that way, but that is where the black guard comes in.

Actually, the UA has some neat evil paladin variants. The Paladin of Tyranny and the Paladin of Slaughter. Both very evil and very neat.

Quirinus_Obsidian
2007-02-03, 01:11 AM
Drow Warlock = underpowered????

Ehhh? Ex-queeze me? Baking powder?

Sorry, just watched Wayne's World.

Caewil
2007-02-03, 01:21 AM
Drow Warlock = underpowered????
Actually, Any Warlock = Underpowered. Its just that a +2 LA on top of that is even more gimped.

Dhavaer
2007-02-03, 02:07 AM
Eldritch Theurges do get some nice abilities, though. Touch of Vecna from 250ft. away is a very nice way to reach out and touch someone.

Add in Teflammar Shadowlord to the 'ultra shadow' build.

Caewil
2007-02-03, 03:04 AM
Yeah, they can be okay if they are properly used, but they're very difficult. And their power is nowhere near what any other primary spellcaster can unleash.

Nerd-o-rama
2007-02-03, 04:24 AM
Pure warlocks = Snipers with some crowd control and other utility tricks. Not terribly powerful, but fun.
Some Warlock PrC's, as mentioned, are pretty good.

Anyway, pretty much anything but a single-classed Paladin can be played as Evil. Look at what class represents the character you want to roleplay, and go from there.

Zincorium
2007-02-03, 04:27 AM
Drow Warlock = underpowered????

Ehhh? Ex-queeze me? Baking powder?

Sorry, just watched Wayne's World.

You've just lost two levels of what was the least-effective-per-round class of all time. In return, you gain a few abilities score points (which, in the warlock's case, don't add any casting ability to make up for what you lost due to LA) and some almost workable spell resistance. You are also killed on sight in most places, have to spend a feat to walk outside on a sunny day without penalty, and no matter what alignment you are, people will say it's cliche.

As a warlock, you're more resilient than a standard wizard, have more arcane might than the fighter, do more direct damage than the bard, and have fewer alignment restrictions than the paladin. You also have the ability to be exactly as useful as you are now after 10 hours of fighting.

Kyrsis
2007-02-03, 04:38 AM
at the risk of offending every one

blah blah blah blaahhh!

any class can be evil. arguable paladins don't last long that way, but that is where the black guard comes in. an evil character is not about what class they are, it's about the events that made them evil.

consider some of the well known evil characters. darth vadar. turned evil by his own desires and lack of faith. ridick (pitch black). yes he has a soul, and yes he has compassion, but he is DARK. he has no moral compass when it comes to killing those who get in his way.

why is your character evil? what made him/her go down that path? let the class be a function of that


I agree with you. My favorite character of all time (which I still play as often as possible) is a human sorceress and depending on story events turns between CN and evil on a regular basis; it's purely role playing and the personality I've developed with her over the last 3 years.

PinkysBrain
2007-02-03, 08:46 AM
I'd love to play an evil barbarian/warmage. just a complete psychopath who goes into battle full tilt, blowing up stuff.
So he'd rage, be unable to cast spells and launch himself into combat with d6 HD and a horrendous attack bonus? Barbarians aren't good gishes. Warmages aren't good gishes. Barbarian warmages are just plain silly.

There is a huge difference between playing a slightly underpowered class (warlock, warmage, etc) and a gimp. If you choose to play such a class make the best of it, don't heap it together with levels/LA/RHD which conflict with the main purpose of the class.

Maxymiuk
2007-02-03, 09:11 AM
Complete Warrior does have the Rage Mage PrC which rather neatly sidesteps the whole problem.

gaymer_seattle
2007-02-03, 09:26 AM
stop crunching the numbers! they didn't do anything to you. you're not building a character here. you're picking components for a machine.

i dare anyone to play an evil halfling wizard with no stat over 14. and make them a blight upon the land

PinkysBrain
2007-02-03, 09:27 AM
Maxymiuk, maybe if you are playing an ECL40 epic game you could consider working it in ... in practice though the harsh limit on the number of days you can spell rage and the number of dropped spell casting levels makes it rather poor (it only becomes really playable at higher levels).

Gaymer, it's not just about the numbers ... it's about the character and the numbers. They both have to reflect each other. It is hard to seriously maintain you are one of the greatest sword fighters who ever lived if you get dropped every fight. Most people want to play capable characters, and that just doesn't go together with ones who by the numbers are gimps.

PS. a 14 int wizard is poor, but it isn't a gimp.

NullAshton
2007-02-03, 09:28 AM
Actually the cliche is drow being GOOD. When drow are evil, they're never cliche.

KaotiX
2007-02-03, 11:48 AM
Well, I've decided for the cleric. Really looks nice.
Thank you all very much, I really wasn't thinking I'd get so many nice answers! :smallsmile:

Nerd-o-rama
2007-02-03, 12:11 PM
Glad we could help, KaotiX. Let us know how it turns out.

stop crunching the numbers! they didn't do anything to you. you're not building a character here. you're picking components for a machine.

i dare anyone to play an evil halfling wizard with no stat over 14. and make them a blight upon the land
See, that's just being intentionally ineffective. I maintain and have always maintained that there's nothing wrong with interpreting the character you want to play in a tactically effective manner. Character and mechanics are but loosely joined.

Who decides to become a Wizard if they don't have the smarts for it? Wait...actually, you have a good concept there. I envision a major Napoleon complex that he tries to make up for with magical prowess, but he's just plain not bright enough to manage higher level spells...okay, that sounds like a fun character. Sort of like Tiax from Baldur's Gate. I still wouldn't play him past level 10 in a normal game, because my contributions to the party would be severely limited.

goat
2007-02-03, 01:43 PM
Evil swashbuckler.

Mock everyone as you dance around hitting them.

mikeejimbo
2007-02-03, 02:50 PM
Rogue/Assassin might be fun.