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Piggy Knowles
2014-03-15, 09:54 AM
So, the party I DM for is about to embark on a minor riverboating excursion! Much fun to be had, I'm sure.

That being said, the rules regarding said boating are painfully scarce. They've got a small boat designed for the river, well built but nonmagical. The river is vigorous, but at this part of it, there are few actual rapids. They are traveling to the bay that is downriver, although there is some minor navigation involved, and depending on which way they go, they could eventually hit some rapids or other obstacles. They've already succeeded on their knowledge (geography) check to figure out the best routes. Now it's just a question of actually navigating the damned thing.

The main rules I've found are in Stormwrack, pages 86-88. However...

It's a DC 8 profession (sailor) check to steer your boat in vigorous water. Of course, profession (sailor) is a trained-only skill. So, as far as I can tell, there is no way for anyone without a rank in profession (sailor) to even attempt to steer a boat on a swift-moving river, and all they can do is go along with the current. I find that a bit silly - even if they're not trained, they should be able to at least try to redirect their boat to the correct path when they come up against an obstacle, no?

Are there rules in any sources I'm missing? And, lacking that, how would the playground recommend I handle something like this? What kind of check would be reasonable for letting them try to steer? And if they do just get carried along with the current, I was thinking I'd make percentile rolls to see what route the current takes them, and whether or not they avoid certain obstacles. Does this sound fair?

toapat
2014-03-15, 10:02 AM
rules wise: sailing is probably the thing i know the least about where it would be, scouring stormwrack is the only advice i can give

as for the skill check: The skillcheck is in reference to Stormtides out on the ocean, you cant sail a boat through water lower then its displacement, and anywhere rapids are is going to have a lower water level then the surrounding water, and are likely going to be lower then the displacement of the boat, thus relying on the party getting out and carrying the boat.

Piggy Knowles
2014-03-15, 10:12 AM
as for the skill check: The skillcheck is in reference to Stormtides out on the ocean, you cant sail a boat through water lower then its displacement, and anywhere rapids are is going to have a lower water level then the surrounding water, and are likely going to be lower then the displacement of the boat, thus relying on the party getting out and carrying the boat.

I was using the section regarding steering, and also this passage from page 88:



Rivers with fast-moving waters also create surflike conditions that might swamp or overturn your vessel, even if you are steering successfully. A vigorous current is treated like light surf; a dangerous current is equal to heavy surf; and an irresistible current is equal to very heavy surf. See Foundering, above.

That, to me, implies that the steering section just above is still relevant, and that they also have to make foundering checks once per day (or once per hour in storms, or once per minute if they move onto dangerous current). The foundering checks would cover the boat being swamped or overturned. Also, it's a small boat, designed to navigate this very river (something similar to this (http://www.mainememory.net/media/images/450/75/20226.JPG), although with some modifications).

Trilby
2014-03-15, 10:53 AM
The profession(Sailor) skill seems to mostly concern itself with sailing the ocean. Transport down/upstream a river like you want would mostly be done by having a boat 'drawn' by a beast of burden back in the day (English is my 2nd language, don't recall the technical term for this).
So either a handle animal check, of a profession sailor check would do, according to the manner of transport chosen, of course.
Maybe have them hire an expert?

Piggy Knowles
2014-03-15, 11:28 AM
The profession(Sailor) skill seems to mostly concern itself with sailing the ocean. Transport down/upstream a river like you want would mostly be done by having a boat 'drawn' by a beast of burden back in the day (English is my 2nd language, don't recall the technical term for this).
So either a handle animal check, of a profession sailor check would do, according to the manner of transport chosen, of course.
Maybe have them hire an expert?

Unfortunately, neither option is a possibility in this instance. They've commandeered a small boat being used by smugglers in the night, and they're on the run. They're trying to use the smuggler's boat and maps to sneak into a city. There are no nearby beasts of burden they could catch or buy, and hiring someone right now would be out of the question.

If I added on a modifier to represent the greater difficulty in making the check untrained, what would be a fair modifier? Does +5 seem fair? That would make it a DC 13 check to steer in vigorous waters untrained, or a DC 23 in a dangerous current, or DC 33 in an irresistible current.

TheDarkSaint
2014-03-15, 01:00 PM
Off topic, but the title of your post and river boating...I love it. Very clever :)

I think +5 to DC sounds plenty fair for an untrained check.

Trilby
2014-03-15, 02:34 PM
I agree, +5 sounds fair in this case.