Large playing group Challenge Rating?

[LarryBann]

I am a DM with a rather large player group that just hit level 5 which includes:

Dwarven Cleric
Human Monk
Human Rogue
Human Dragon Shaman
Halfling Bard
Half Orc Barbarian
Half Elf Ranger
Tiefling Wizard

The problem I've been having is coming up with challenges that are difficult enough, but not too difficult. The player with the Dwarven Cleric is the most seasoned of thegroup but often takes a back seat to the rest of the group's judgements. Most of the rest are fairly new to D&D. I've been contemplating splitting the group up to make combat more interesting and make it easier coming up with a decent challenge. Any idea/suggestions?

[Jack_Simth]

If you keep them as one group, do not use higher-level challenges, use more of them.

They're Level 5, you said? So an "average" encounter should include two CR5 creatures. A "Tough" encounter should include two CR7 creatures. An "Easy" encounter should include two CR 3 creatures. And so on. Theoretically, you have a Party Level of 7, however, CR 7-9 casty-types tend to have special attacks that can only be countered by 4th & 5th level spells, which your party doesn't get. Likewise, CR 7-9 bruisers tend to have attacks that'll very often slaughter 5th level characters outright. So you use the recommended CR for their level, but then double the number of creatures (as CR expects a party of four).

However, your group as a whole is decidedly unoptimized, from the looks of things, so I would suggest playing the monsters dumb.

[Urpriest]

In general, you can apply the rules for multiple opponents "in reverse" to get an idea of what sorts of ELs a larger group should face. Your group is double the size of a normal group, so you should be throwing encounters of two higher EL.

That said, splitting the group would probably go more smoothly if you can handle the logistics.

[Telonius]

8 characters, would be 2 groups of 4. Plus a greater possibility of concentrating fire on the most dangerous enemies.

I'd just take a regular challenge and multiply the number of monsters in it by 2.5 or so. Give the same experience you'd give to a group of 4 facing the unmodified number of bad guys.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

I'd consider splitting that up into two groups. Barring that, throw a higher number of opponents instead of more difficult opponents. Enemies that use tricks and tactics instead of just making attack rolls will also make things more fun for everyone.

The encounters I suggested here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=300111#7) are higher level than you can use, but offer a good example of what I'm talking about.

Here are a few encounters that I would use for this party:

Spiders!
This is an Aranea with a few class levels and its spider minions. They'll probably encounter the Aranea in humanoid form calling for assistance, apparently trapped behind a very large spider's web. He'll say he came into the room to loot that treasure chest (points to a large glowing treasure chest, just an illusion) but it summoned the web as soon as he touched it. As the PCs start hacking through it he gets scared and runs off screaming deeper into the room, out of view.

Aranea (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/aranea.htm) Spellthief 1/ Unseen Seer 2 (CR 6)
Medium Magical Beast (Shapechanger)
HD 3d10+1d6+2d4+18; HP 47; Init +8; Speed 50 ft., Climb 25 ft.; AC ; BAB +4; Grapple +5; Attack ; Full Attack ; SA Poison, Spells, Web, Steal Spell (3rd), Sneak Attack +2d6; SQ
Fort +6, Reflex +9, Will +6; Str 12, Dex 18, Con 17, Int 14, Wis 10, Cha 20.
Skills and Feats: Iron Will (B), Master Spellthief, Silent Spell (B), Invisible Spell, Eschew Materials
Sorcerer spells/day: 6/8/5, caster level 6th, DC 15 + spell level.
Sorcerer spells known: 6/4/2 plus one Advanced Learning
0- Caltrops, Dancing Lights, Ghost Sound, Detect Magic, Sonic Snap, Mage Hand
1st- Power Word: Pain (RotD), Silent Image, Wall of Smoke (SC), Ray of Flame (SC)
2nd- Web, Kelgore's Grave Mist (PH2), See Invisibility
Possessions: Adventurer's outfit, Masterwork Chain Shirt, Masterwork Spiked Gauntlet, +1 Mithral Buckler with a Wand Chamber, Wand of Benign Transposition (SC) with 15 charges, Healing Belt (MIC), Vanisher Cloak (MIC).

Minions: Two Spider Swarms (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/swarm.htm#spiderSwarm) (CR 1), Four Medium Monstrous Spiders (CR 1), total EL 7.

Tactics: Hide in the room, when the PCs come in and approach the chest he goes into hybrid form and stops concentrating on the Silent Image, the spiders take that as their signal to start dropping down.
1st/surprise round: Cast an Invisible Web blocking their exit, hopefully trapping a few in the process, stay hidden. The spiders should hang down out of reach and use their webs on anyone near the front (furthest from the exit). The spider swarms will move down on either side of the group.
2nd round: Cast Wall of Smoke to catch as many opponents as possible, stay hidden. The spiders should drop down and bite or web anyone not in the smoke or web, or move to the edges of the smoke and ready to bite or web anyone who comes out, don't forget about AoOs if they run past the spiders. The spider swarms should move onto anyone not in the smoke, preferably someone who moves away from the rest of the group.
3rd round: Cast Kelgore's Grave Mist on anyone still trapped in the webs, or use (Invisible) Ray of Flame to sneak attack an armored opponent, or use Power Word: Pain on someone. The spiders continue biting or webbing anyone not in the spells, spider swarms continue swarming opponents who try to keep their distance.
4th+ round: Cast Power Word: Pain on each opponent, preferring unarmored foes first. Use the Vanisher Cloak or Wand of Benign Transposition if someone engages him in melee. The spiders and spider swarms continue doing their thing, but the spiders will flee if seriously injured.

This situation and set of encounters (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=252566#22), but use more Ooze Mephits and put one or two Otyughs in the room with them, hiding under the filth and only popping out to strike if it turns into a fight. Make the monsters ignore the Stinking Cloud's effect due to its similarity to their natural environment. The Arrowhawk should be an Elder Arrowhawk. The Terlens can be advanced or Fiendish or similar, and use more of them.