Swordsage Advice

[Iolaus]

Ok so I am gonna be trying a Swordsage out. Well I am gonna be trying a variant of the Swordsage out.

We are using the Arcane Swordsage:
We treat it that it allows the Swordsage to elect to use spells in place of maneuvers but "Casts" them as maneuvers so no ASF rates to any of them. All spell schools are open but the three schools (abjuration, evocation, and transmutation) are the most common.

So we can use both Maneuvers and Spells.

But my character will be wielding a Urgosh into battle and fighting with Two Weapon Fighting style of both ends.

Any Advice?

[docnessuno]

Congratulation, you tricked your DM into allowing the single most broken (variant) class in the game.

Enjoy being a full caster with infinite spells/day, i don't think there's much more to say.

[Iolaus]

I would argue that the Illithid Savant is more broken

[Grod_The_Giant]

Level? Books? General optimization level of your group? Also, how are you treating material/exp components?

[Iolaus]

Lvl 1 all races of books all complete books. Core books.

Average optimization I guess

I don't understand the last part

[Grod_The_Giant]

If a spell has a material component (ie, stoneskin) or an experience component (permanency), do you have to provide it?

In any case, good first level spells for you:

Protection from Evil
Ray of Enfeeblement
Enlarge Person
Benign Transportation
Wall of Smoke
Nerveskitter
Ray of Clumsiness


Avoid things that require a save (your Wisdom will be a lot lower than a caster's, or that'll be situationally useful-- you want thing that you'll be spamming constantly.

Obligatory handbook link. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=196531)

[Iolaus]

No exp costs they get put a gold cost. But I have to pay gold /material costs

[Xerlith]

So... Basically... Your DM let you play a sorcerer with Warlock spells per day and medium BAB. Congrats, you win D&D.

For the sake of your and your party's sanity, if you want to play an unusual Swordsage, ask your DM to swap your disciplines for those here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=255468), on case by case basis.

Untamed Essence (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=112720) and Abjurant Champion (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10640971&postcount=7) are my particular favorites.

They'll be more balanced than what you are trying to do.

[mabriss lethe]

I don't think you'll ever need to use that Urgosh, unless you're trying to intentionally handicap yourself to counteract some of the ungodly brokenness of Arcane Swordsage.

"Why all the pseudo-hate for Arcane Swordsage?" Some might ask. It's a very poorly thought out idea. The entire adaptation is described in a few sentences. It's more of a "Wouldn't this be a neat idea?" scenario than an actual class variant, and thus, never properly explored or tested. The way the spellcasting interacts with the maneuver mechanic can lead to potentially game breakingly disastrous results.

[Xerlith]

There's no real hate -just that most players approach the concept exactly as written and create characters that can easily break the game in two without realy trying - often not knowing.

That said, you're right, but only if the DM has a firm grip on game balance and controls the kinds of spells given to the Swordsage.

An Evocation and Abjuration-only Arcane Swordsage would probably be able to remain balanced. Case-by-case accepting of spells-to-maneuvers by the DM would probably work, too.

EDIT: HA, FOUND IT!

Here's a link (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=187632) to a great Arcane Swordsage adaptation. Treat it as official and use to convert spells to maneuvers. Great, simple and quite balanced.

[Iolaus]

The urgosh is for the maneuver side of it. Don't want to power game but the mix of magic and martial seems fun.

I will look at the homebrews for it thanks.

[mabriss lethe]

There's no real hate -just that most players approach the concept exactly as written and create characters that can easily break the game in two without realy trying - often not knowing.

That said, you're right, but only if the DM has a firm grip on game balance and controls the kinds of spells given to the Swordsage.

An Evocation and Abjuration-only Arcane Swordsage would probably be able to remain balanced. Case-by-case accepting of spells-to-maneuvers by the DM would probably work, too.

EDIT: HA, FOUND IT!

Here's a link (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=187632) to a great Arcane Swordsage adaptation. Treat it as official and use to convert spells to maneuvers. Great, simple and quite balanced.

Sorry, That was meant to be a rhetorical question on my part. Let me fix that.

[Xerlith]

The urgosh is for the maneuver side of it. Don't want to power game but the mix of magic and martial seems fun.

I will look at the homebrews for it thanks.

What you're looking for is a gish. There are tons of builds and classes dedicated to it. The Swordsage is a solid mystical warrior, you may also want to check out the Duskblade class.

If you explain what you want your character to be able to do, the Playground will deliver - and we can keep it simple if really needed. :smallbiggrin:

[Iolaus]

Well I do like the warlock class so the imitation of its invocations while providing decent martial prowess makes the arcane SS a good fit. Because the spells would be most either combat boosting or utility