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View Full Version : [3.5] Good ToB maneuvers / stances for a Bard



The Troubadour
2014-03-15, 12:45 PM
Hey there, guys! So, as the title says, what are good maneuvers / stances for a Human Bard 6 / War Chanter 10 (or Warrior Skald 10, I'm still undecided) to take with the Martial Training feat that won't conflict with usage of Bardic Music in terms of action economy and types of bonuses? Here's what I'd prefer for those, in order of preference:

1) Stances / maneuvers that boost my allies alongside my Bardic Music.
2) Stances / maneuvers that let me kick some righteous donkey and chew bubblegum while maintaining my Bardic Music.
3) Stances / maneuvers for general utility.

Many thanks for any suggestions! :-)

Zaydos
2014-03-15, 12:50 PM
Leading the Charge is a fun party buffing stance (+IL to charge damage for you and nearby allies).

White Raven Tactics is a swift action maneuver that can grant an ally an earlier turn which can be pretty good.

Generally look at White Raven.

PraxisVetli
2014-03-15, 12:52 PM
Song of White Raven is a feat, stacks Warblade, Crusader, and Bard for Inspire Courage, and makes it a Swift Action to activate.
Maneuver-wise, White Raven, White Raven, White Raven.
Arr day rong, White Raven.
edit: swordsage'd

Piggy Knowles
2014-03-15, 12:54 PM
Maneuver-wise, White Raven, White Raven, White Raven.
Arr day rong, White Raven.

Overall, yeah, White Raven is great. However, if you're just picking things up via Martial Study, it's also not a bad idea to nab something from Devoted Spirit. Why? Because Martial Study for anything Devoted Spirit gives you Intimidate as a class skill for all your classes, something bards sadly lack.

The Troubadour
2014-03-15, 04:53 PM
Song of White Raven is a feat, stacks Warblade, Crusader, and Bard for Inspire Courage, and makes it a Swift Action to activate.

No, that feat is excellent for a Bard / Warblade (or Crusader), but it's not so good for a pure Bard / Bard Prestige Class. Most White Raven bonuses also don't stack with Bardic Music bonuses.

Any other suggestions?

Metahuman1
2014-03-15, 04:57 PM
If you can get a continuous item of the spell Undersong, Diamond Mid could be Quite Goods.

PraxisVetli
2014-03-15, 05:17 PM
No, that feat is excellent for a Bard / Warblade (or Crusader), but it's not so good for a pure Bard / Bard Prestige Class. Most White Raven bonuses also don't stack with Bardic Music bonuses.

Any other suggestions?

My mistake, totally missed the Martial Study part.

Xerlith
2014-03-15, 05:39 PM
Is 16th the level you're starting at? What is the concept of your character? Warrior Skald is... A very sub-par class to say the least and the concept can be captured pretty well by a Savage Bard (UA) or a variant CG Paladin (UA) of an ideal (War/Honorable combat) with From Smite to Song (or Initiate of Milil).

Why not just dip Crusader or Warblade for maneuvers?

Do notice that War Chanter does not progress Inspire Courage, so it's effectively gimping your supporting/face-smashing ability if taken for more than three (or five if DFIng) levels.

If you want a charismatic leader/head smasher... Try the A-Game paladin. Maybe change it around a bit.
Or a Bardblade/Bardsader. Oor a Bard4/Warblade6/War Chanter10 if you're bent on the class.

War Chanter is useful mostly for Inspire Recklessness or the capstone. Remember it doesn't progress Inspire Courage - the main Bard buffing song.
Warrior Skald - a nice 1lvl dip, but not much more.
If you use flaws - going Silverbrow Human with Dragonfire Inspiration goes a long way in party buffing.

Adverb
2014-03-16, 12:30 PM
Vanguard Strike. It's a level 1 maneuver, so it's easy to get, if you hit it gives a +4 [untyped] to all party members to hit your target for a turn. Taking Martial Study to get it also makes Intimidate a class skill for you, which you may enjoy.

White Raven stuff is good. Tactical Strike scales well. Leading the Attack is good, but it's a morale bonus and you're a bard, so avoid it. White Raven Tactics may be, bang-for-buck, the best single power in all of D&D, in that you can turn your swift action into someone else's entire turn - but you'd need to have other maneuvers to use it.

Taking a single level of Warblade or Crusader lets you get one or two higher-level maneuvers without blowing feats, so that might be worth it. Divine Surge is fun.

The good support stances are probably Iron Guard's Glare (if you want to draw hits away from allies), Bolstering Voice (very bardy, but the morale bonuses overlap a little with IC) and Island of Blades, but you don't want to take Island of Blades.

The feat Song of the White Raven is a neat idea but not actually a very good way to spend a feat.

The Troubadour
2014-03-16, 08:52 PM
Hey there, everyone! Thanks a lot for all the answers. :-) In the end, the group voted against using anything from ToB - mostly because the DM is very conservative with the sourcebooks we use, but also because it's a low-to-mid optimization group and people feel ToB isn't really needed -, so I'll be sticking with a Bard / Warrior Skald and focus on optimizing Inspire Courage (sadly, "Dragon Magic" and Words of Creation also aren't allowed, but that's ok; at level 16, with Inspirational Boost and Song of the Heart, I'll be giving a +5 bonus to attack and damage rolls - not too shabby :-)). But thanks again for all the answers, you guys are the best! :-)