Highest Initiative Bonus in Pathfinder?

[Feint's End]

Ok so I think the highest Initiative Bonus possible in Pathfinder is +35 (without buffs / constantly active). Am I right or wrong? How could I increase it further.

How it's done:
-Ifrit Gunslinger (put all favoured class boni into the alternate racial bonus)
-traits: reactionary
-alternate racial trait: wildfire heart
-feats: improved initiative
-starting dex of 20 raising to 36 at level 20 (5 level, 5 inherent, 6 item)

All together: 2 (trait), 4 (II), 4 (Wildfire Heart), 12 (Gunslinger Initiative), 13 (Dex) = +35

Any ideas on how to increase it? I bet there is some way to raise it with gear but I'm not so sure about gear in PF.

[Yanisa]

Edit 100: I reformatted my entire post, to celebrate my 100th edit.

Getting Initiative
Permanent Initiative Boosters Used

Class Abilities

Gunslinger Initiative (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/gunslinger#TOC-Deeds); Gunslinger 3; +2 Untyped Initiative (See race)
Cunning Initiative (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/inquisitor#TOC-Cunning-Initiative-Ex-); Inquisitor level 2; Adds wisdom to initiative checks
Arcane Bond (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/wizard#TOC-Arcane-Bond-Ex-or-Sp-); Familiar (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/animals/familiar"); (Compsognathus); +4 Untyped Initiative
First Into Battle (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/paladin/archetypes/paizo---paladin-archetypes/sword-of-valor#TOC-First-Into-Battle-Su-); Paladin Archetype Sword of Valor 1; Adds charisma to initiative checks
Forewarned (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/wizard/arcane-schools/paizo---arcane-schools/classic-arcane-schools/divination#TOC-Forewarned-Su-); Wizard 1 (Divination (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/wizard/arcane-schools/paizo---arcane-schools/classic-arcane-schools/divination) Arcane school (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/wizard#TOC-Arcane-School)); +1/2 Untyped Initiative per level; Minimum+1
Improved Reaction (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/core-rulebook/duelist#TOC-Improved-Reaction-Ex-); Duelist 2 (Prestige Class); +2 Untyped Initiative


Feats

Improved Initiative (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/improved-initiative-combat---final); +4 Untyped Initiative (See Mythic Improved Initiative)
Warrior Priest (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/warrior-priest); +1 Untyped Initiative
Noble Scion (Scion of War) (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/noble-scion); Replaces Dexterity with Charisma for Initiative checks.(See chapter Increasing ability scores)
Dueling Mastery (Combat) (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/aldori-dueling-mastery); +2 Untyped Initiative as long as you start combat with a dueling sword in your hand


Items:

Stone of Good Luck (Luckstone) (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/r-z/stone-of-good-luck-luckstone); +1 Luck Ability Checks (See traits; Fate's Favored)
Dueling Weapon Enchantment (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-weapons/magic-weapon-special-abilities/dueling); +4 Enhancement Initiative
Runeforged Weapon enchantment (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-weapons/magic-weapon-special-abilities/runeforged); +2 Insight Initiative (Adventure Path item)
Banner of the Ancient Kings (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/a-b/banner-of-the-ancient-kings); +4 Circumstance Initiative (Adventure Path item)
Cracked Dusty Rose Prism (Ioun Stone) (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/h-l/ioun-stones/dusty-rose-prism-ioun-stone); +1 Competence Initiative
Circlet of Persuasion (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/c-d/circlet-of-persuasion) +3 Competence on Charisma-based checks (See Increasing ability scores)
Boots of Friendly Terrain (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/a-b/boots-of-friendly-terrain); Gives Favored Terrain (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/ranger#TOC-Favored-Terrain-Ex-); +2 Untyped Initiative in Favorite Terrain (See Class Abilities); +4 If the ranger already has this terrain


Generic items that gives +6 enchantment bonus to Ability Scores. (See Increasing ability scores)
Generic items that give +5 inherent bonus to Ability Scores. (See Increasing ability scores)


Mythic

Amazing Initiative (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/mythic/mythic-heroes#TOC-Amazing-Initiative-Ex-); +10 Untyped Initiative
Improved Initiative (Mythic) (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/mythic/mythic-feats/improved-initiative-mythic); +10 Untyped Initiative (Replaces the +4 from Improved Initiative)


Race

Infrit Alternate Racial Traits Wildfire Heart (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/featured-races/arg-ifrit#TOC-Alternate-Racial-Traits); +4 Racial Initiative
Ifrit Favored Class Options Gunslinger (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/featured-races/arg-ifrit#TOC-Favored-Class-Options); +1/2 Untyped Initiative per level on the Gunslinger Initiative Deed. (See class)


Traits

Reactionary (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/combat-traits/reactionary); +2 Trait Bonus
Fate's Favored (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/faith-traits/fate-s-favored); Increases any luck bonus by +1 (see items; Luckstone)


Increasing ability scores
Due Noble Scion we replace dexterity with charisma
Due Cunning Initiative we get wisdom as bonus on initiative checks
Due First Into Battle we get charisma as bonus on initiative checks
So we want the max out of those two scores.

30 Wisdom (18 base -2 racial + 5 inherent + 6 enchantment, +3 venerable) or a +10 Modifier
44 Charisma (18 base +2 racial +5 from levels +5 from mythic levels + 5 inherent + 6 enchantment, +3 venerable) or a +17 Modifier

Temporary Initiative Boosters Used
Master of Terrain (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/ranger/archetypes/paizo---ranger-archetypes/warden#TOC-Master-of-Terrain-Ex-); Favored Terrain (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/ranger#TOC-Favored-Terrain-Ex-); +2 Untyped Initiative in Favorite Terrain (See items)
Corsair (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/corsair-of-taldor); +2 Untyped Initiative while on a ship
Anticipate Peril (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/a/anticipate-peril); +5 Insight for 20 minutes
Profane Gift (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/outsiders/demon/succubus#TOC-Profane-Gift-Su-); +2 profane to Ability Score; good luck seducing 2 Succubi though.
Harrowed (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/harrowed); +2 bonus on initiative, 1 in 6 chance. (Harrow Deck rules here (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/goods-and-services/toys-games-puzzles#TOC-Cards);)

Currently Unused Options
Rod of Alertness (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/rods/rod-of-alertness); +1 Insight Initiative

__________________
The Build
Fabio "First in the Fray" Flash; Swiftest and Sexiest Swashbuckler alive

2 Inquisitor/2 Sword of Valor (Paladin Archetype)/1 Divinest (Specialist Wizard)/1 Warden (Ranger Archetype)/12 Gunslinger/2 Duelist (Prestige Class) // 10 Mythic Ranks
Feats (9/10) (Improved Initiative, Noble Scion [Scion of War], Dodge, Mobility, Weapon Finesse, Warrior Priest, Quick Draw, Weapon Focus (dueling sword), Dueling Mastery.
Mythic Feats: (1/5) (Improved Initiative [Mythic])

All together:
+17 (Charisma; Noble Scion; 3 points come from Mythic)
+17 (Charisma; First in Battle; 3 points come from Mythic)
+10 (Mythic Improved Initiative; Replaces +4 from Improved Initiative)
+10 (Mythic Amazing Initiative)
+10 (Wisdom; Cunning Initiative)
+08 (Gunslinger Initiative + Favored Class Bonus -> 2 + 1/2 Gunslinger levels)
+04 (Wildfire Heart)
+04 (Familiar/Arcane Bond)
+02 (Duelist)
+02 (Trait)
+02 (Dueling Mastery)
+01 (Foresight -> 1/2 Divinest Wizard; Minimum 1)
+01 (Warrior Priest)

Total: 88 Initiative. (Or 66 without Mythic; -20 From Amazing and Improved Initiative, -6 from cha, +4 Normal Improved Initiative.)

Then adding items:
+04 Enchantment (Dueling)
+04 Circumstance (Banner of the Ancient Kings)
+03 Competence Bonus on Charisma (Circlet of Persuasion)
+02 Insight (Runeforged) or +01 Rod of Alertness
+02 Luck (Stone of Good Luck; Doubled by Fate's Favored)
+02 Untyped (Boots of Favored Terrain; Needs to swap boots to fit terrain)
+01 Competence Bonus (Ioun stone)

Which adds another +18. (Or +13 if you ignore campaign specific items; -4 Banner of Ancient Kings, -2 Runeforged, +1 Rod of Alertness.)

For the permanent total of 106 Initiative. (Although +79 would be more achievable in a normal campaigns; 66 Non mythic + 13 non campaign specific.)

With spells/temporary bonuses:
Anticipate Peril gives a +5 insight bonus, which overrides the +2 from Runeforged for an increase of +3.
A succubus could add another +2 wisdom and charisma, for another +3 initiative
Taking Corsair gives on ships a +2
Taking Harrowed gives another +2, but only when lucky (Note: without mythic feats we don't have a spare feat)
Boots of Favored Terrain give an additional +2 if the ranger already has that favored terrain.
Which leads to:
For the grand total of 118 Initiative. If you are a Harrowed Corsair In your Favored Terrain (Aquatic)... (Without luck 116, Without being on a ship 114, without favored terrain 112)

__________________
Things to add
Agile mythic simple template
Generalist Mythic ability Display of Dexterity (Wisdom, Charisma?)

__________________
Thanks to
Feint's End - For starting the topic to allow me to steal it and over bloat it.
StreamOfTheSky - Noble Scion, Luckstone
(Un)Inspired - For Succubus Idea, how icky it may be
grarrrg and his dipping guide (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12613046#post12613046) - For various dips and class tricks; Also boots of favored terrain.
137ben - For Agile Mythic Template; Although currently not in this build
Ravens_cry - For Fate's Favored and doubling luck bonuses
ZeroSpace9000 - For Generalist Mythic ability Display of Dexterity; Although currently not in this build
Anyone else that I forgot - For everyone helps in little bits and I am scatterbrained enough to forget someone.
You! - For reading all this

Lastly: A internet cookie for anyone helping with spelling, grammar or formatting errors.

[StreamOfTheSky]

If you take Noble Scion feat you can make it charisma-based, which means circlet of persuasion applies to it, another +3.

And the humble stone of good luck is a +1 on all ability checks, which includes initiative. Pricy for a +1, though.

The Geysermancer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15046971&postcount=10), a wonderful build that's broken in several ways, has a +41 initiative mod, though that's including +5 from the anticipate peril spell.

[(Un)Inspired]

When you guys are calculation optimized ability scores you're not including a succubus' profane gift. That a +2 to one ability score.

It's not a huge bonus and I would never automatically assume that a PC would get it but as long as we're just seeing what the highest possible initiative is then we should include it.

[Yanisa]

When you guys are calculation optimized ability scores you're not including a succubus' profane gift. That a +2 to one ability score.

It's not a huge bonus and I would never automatically assume that a PC would get it but as long as we're just seeing what the highest possible initiative is then we should include it.

True, but it is a once per day, and the OP was looking wasn't looking for spells so I don't think temporary bonuses fit. I did include it for completeness sake.

[grarrrg]

2 Inquisitor/18 Gunslinger // 10 Mythic Ranks

Ifrit Gunslinger only gives +1 every 2 levels.
We can do better than that with some crazy-dipping.
TO THE DIPPING GUIDE (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12613046#post12613046)!
+# Bonus
Cleric 1A, +1/2 level and always act in Surprise round (Divine Strategist)
Druid 3A, +2 (or more) in Favored Terrain (World Walker)
Fighter 2A, +1, +1 every 4 levels after (Tactician)
Gunslinger 3, +2
Inquisitor 2, +Wis
Monk 1A, +1/2 level and always act in Surprise round (Sohei)
Oracle 1S, Roll twice, take best, can always act in the Surprise round at 7th, Roll thrice take best at level 11 (Battle or Time)
Oracle 1S, +4, but requires 10 minutes prep time (Juju or Nature)
Paladin 2A, +Cha, spend Smite Evil or Lay-on-Hands to act in Surprise round (Sword of Valor)
Ranger 1A, 3, +2 (or more) in Favored Terrain (Warden gets Favored Terrain at level 1)
Summoner 1A, +? Only if using Synthesist to get a higher Dex score
Wizard 1S, +1/2 level and always act in Surprise round (Divination specialization)

Duelist 2, +2, +4 at 8th level
Shieldmarshal 2, +1/2 level and always act in Surprise round

Granted, most of these are "+1/2 level" bonus and do NOT say "minimum 1", so that's still +1 for 2 levels.
But a few of them...

Divination (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/wizard/arcane-schools/paizo---arcane-schools/classic-arcane-schools/divination) Wizard is +1/2 level, and DOES have a "minimum +1" clause.

2 levels of Sword of Valor (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/paladin/archetypes/paizo---paladin-archetypes/sword-of-valor) Paladin gets CHA to Initiative (untyped bonus!).

Nature/Juju Oracles can do a 10 minute Divination for a +4 Insight bonus (better than the Trait, worse than the spells).

Warden (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/ranger/archetypes/paizo---ranger-archetypes/warden) Ranger gets a Favored Terrain at 1st level, that's an Untyped +2 when in Favored area.

Duelist (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/core-rulebook/duelist) gets an Untyped +2 at level 2 (increases to +4 at level 8, but that's a worse gain that +1/2 per level).


So drop 4 levels of Gunslinger from the build, this loses +2 from Ifrit bonuses.
Grab 2 levels of Paladin and 2 of Duelist to gain:
+CHA (14) again
+2
Net gain of +14

Drop another 2 levels of Gunslinger (lose +1)
Grab a level of Divination Wizard and a level of Warden Ranger:
+1
+2 (situational)
Net gain of 0 -to- +2

[Yanisa]

2 levels of Sword of Valor (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/paladin/archetypes/paizo---paladin-archetypes/sword-of-valor) Paladin gets CHA to Initiative (untyped bonus!).

I wish there was an emoticon for mind blown. And to think I felt proud when I could upgrade Noble Scion bonus with Venerable age (and it also worked with Inquisitor). :smalltongue:


Drop another 2 levels of Gunslinger (lose +1)
Grab a level of Divination Wizard and a level of Warden Ranger:
+1
+2 (situational)
Net gain of 0 -to- +2

It is noteworthy, but I like to keep the focus on permanent bonuses, this gets a honorable "meh". :smallwink:

Edit: And with that we are pushing 99, can someone find a bonus to bring it up to a hundred? Stay tuned dear readers to find out the answer!

[Feint's End]

Wow I didn't expect so much feedback :smallbiggrin: .... good to find out about all the ways to boost init in pf.

Keep it coming people (if somebody missed something of course)!

[Yanisa]

Wow I didn't expect so much feedback :smallbiggrin: .... good to find out about all the ways to boost init in pf.

Keep it coming people (if somebody missed something of course)!

Warrior Priest (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/warrior-priest) +1 bonus on initiative checks!!!

We just broke the 100 max (and even 102 if you are a corsair (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/corsair-of-taldor))

[grarrrg]

It is noteworthy, but I like to keep the focus on permanent bonuses, this gets a honorable "meh". :smallwink:

As mentioned, swapping 2 levels out for Wizard 1/Ranger 1 isn't losing you anything, and since you now have a level of Ranger, you might be interested in this lovely collection of footwear (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/a-b/boots-of-friendly-terrain)?

Cheap enough that you can have a pair for any occasion!

[137beth]

The Agile mythic simple template gives a permanent +20 bonus to initiative for a mere +1 mythic rank. It also gives Dual Initiative (you get two turns in a round, one at -20 initiative). Definitely better than the normal initiative bonus from mythic tiers.

[Yanisa]

As mentioned, swapping 2 levels out for Wizard 1/Ranger 1 isn't losing you anything, and since you now have a level of Ranger, you might be interested in this lovely collection of footwear (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/a-b/boots-of-friendly-terrain)?

Cheap enough that you can have a pair for any occasion!

I don't get the boots...

Do they they emulate being in the terrain they correspond, so if you have a pair of Boots of Friendly Terrain (Forest) you can treat any terrain as Forest and you gain the bonuses of favored terrain to boot (Which are increased if you already have it as favored terrain)?

Or does a Boots of Friendly Terrain (Forest) just give Forest as a favorite terrain or increase it if you already got it?

The first one seems implied by "Boots of friendly terrain turn inhospitable territory into a perfect hunting grounds..."

The second one seems implied by "...A ranger wearing the boots can treat the corresponding environment of the boots as one of his favored terrains..."

It seems the fluff doesn't match the rules... :smallsigh:


The Agile mythic simple template gives a permanent +20 bonus to initiative for a mere +1 mythic rank. It also gives Dual Initiative (you get two turns in a round, one at -20 initiative). Definitely better than the normal initiative bonus from mythic tiers.

Hmmm...

Within Pathfinder there are no rules to play templates as a player character, and it seems implied that templates are only for NPCs... Although you can use the normal variant rule for CR as LA ...

Mythic Ranks on the other side... No can do... No rules... no clue how to handle it... no conversions... The simple conclusion it is not available to playable characters.

It's a great idea, but RAW it is inaccessible for a PC and would need DM ruling, something that you don't want to have for a theoretical build.

[Ravens_cry]

If you take Noble Scion feat you can make it charisma-based, which means circlet of persuasion applies to it, another +3.

And the humble stone of good luck is a +1 on all ability checks, which includes initiative. Pricy for a +1, though.

Ah, but Fate's Favored (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/faith-traits/fate-s-favored)trait makes that +1 a +2, literally doubling a luck stone's benefits.

[grarrrg]

Or does a Boots of Friendly Terrain (Forest) just give Forest as a favorite terrain or increase it if you already got it?

The first one seems implied by "Boots of friendly terrain turn inhospitable territory into a perfect hunting grounds..."

Seems to work fine to me.
They are "inhospitable" because they do not match one of your Favored Terrains, and the boots give you the Favored Terrain, making you more comfortable.

So a Plains Ranger would normally be "out of place" in a Jungle, but if he has Boots of Friendly Jungle Terrain, it is treated as a Favored Terrain, and he feels more at home.

[StreamOfTheSky]

Ah, but Fate's Favored (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/faith-traits/fate-s-favored)trait makes that +1 a +2, literally doubling a luck stone's benefits.

I wasn't sure if that's stack with Reactionary. But...it probably does.

[Ravens_cry]

I wasn't sure if that's stack with Reactionary. But...it probably does.

Indeed it does. Fate's Favoured increases luck bonuses, and Reactionary is a trait bonus.

[ZeroSpace9000]

Surprised no-one has mentioned the Generalist Mythic ability Display of Dexterity. For a point of mythic power, you get a whopping +20 on a single Dexterity-based skill or ability check, and initiative rolls are pointedly Dexterity checks.

[StreamOfTheSky]

Surprised no-one has mentioned the Generalist Mythic ability Display of Dexterity. For a point of mythic power, you get a whopping +20 on a single Dexterity-based skill or ability check, and initiative rolls are pointedly Dexterity checks.

Like the spell points system, mythic was a new rules subsystem I could tell right on the face of it would be dumb and grotesquely imbalanced* and thus ignored it entirely. I suspect many did the same. :smallsmile:

*Here's my mythic rules prediction not having seen it at all: Casters get the ability to cast more spells per round and fighters get higher bonuses to attack and damage.

[137beth]

Hmmm...

Within Pathfinder there are no rules to play templates as a player character, and it seems implied that templates are only for NPCs... Although you can use the normal variant rule for CR as LA ...

Mythic Ranks on the other side... No can do... No rules... no clue how to handle it... no conversions... The simple conclusion it is not available to playable characters.

It's a great idea, but RAW it is inaccessible for a PC and would need DM ruling, something that you don't want to have for a theoretical build.

I was really asking "can anyone think of a way to get this into a build," although I didn't make that clear (I blame lack of sleep.) Although, seeing as the mythic rules have minimal support outside of Legendary Games, I doubt anyone could find an obscure method missed so far.

[Yanisa]

Ah, but Fate's Favored (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/faith-traits/fate-s-favored)trait makes that +1 a +2, literally doubling a luck stone's benefits.

Lovely find.
Now I want to make a character based around luck bonuses, but that is another topic for another day.


Seems to work fine to me.
They are "inhospitable" because they do not match one of your Favored Terrains, and the boots give you the Favored Terrain, making you more comfortable.

So a Plains Ranger would normally be "out of place" in a Jungle, but if he has Boots of Friendly Jungle Terrain, it is treated as a Favored Terrain, and he feels more at home.

After a night of sleep I don't understand how I didn't understand the boots. :smalltongue:
They are like snow boots for arctic terrain, they help you walk better in that terrain. Not sure how I thought snow boots would make the jungle feel like the arctic.

You just added boot swapping to our character. And there is still that situational +2 on our normal favored terrain.


Surprised no-one has mentioned the Generalist Mythic ability Display of Dexterity. For a point of mythic power, you get a whopping +20 on a single Dexterity-based skill or ability check, and initiative rolls are pointedly Dexterity checks.

I didn't really look for increases of Dexterity-based ability checks... yet!
It is also another temporary bonus, which is not the full intend, but I will be adding this anyways


I was really asking "can anyone think of a way to get this into a build," although I didn't make that clear (I blame lack of sleep.) Although, seeing as the mythic rules have minimal support outside of Legendary Games, I doubt anyone could find an obscure method missed so far.
The real problem is not that we need some obscure method. The real problem is there are no methods, at all.

Well the best guesstimate (wait, that is a real word?) I can make is that like normal templates, CR = LA.
We just ignore the MR, because

The monster's CR already factors in the CR increase it gets for having mythic ranks.

We aren't breaking any RAW, and instead are using some of the advise found in the Bestiary, which is almost RAW. Then the question of how one gets the template, but let's just say we met pun pun and as a god he awakened our mythical agile potential, because the only way to get the template is when the DM is bored and wants to boosts an enemy.

Still it's not really the best option, because the CR = LA was written for playing monsters, not playing humanoids with templates. Then again it seems to be the only rules regarding CR and how to play a creature with CR, thus the only option.

[The Grue]

Er...what's a boni?

[Spore]

Er...what's a boni?

Singular bonus plural boni.

A boni is just wrong.

[The Grue]

Singular bonus plural boni.

A boni is just wrong.

...I don't believe the plural of "bus" is "bi".

Singular bonus, plural bonuses.

[Spore]

...I don't believe the plural of "bus" is "bi".

Singular bonus, plural bonuses.

It's latin. Ancient romans didn't have busses. Plural is boni, bonuses is - sadly - widely accepted but a modern construct.

[Yanisa]

It's latin. Ancient romans didn't have busses. Plural is boni, bonuses is - sadly - widely accepted but a modern construct.

Yes, Boni (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/boni) would be accepted by Latin terms, but Bonus means "Good Man" and the current English use is a different meaning then its Latin roots.

Bonuses is the more accepted common term, Boni is the more snobbish elitist term.

Also consider:
Fuse -> Fuses
Uses -> Uses
Muse -> Muses

Seriously, did you just make me argue about language. :smalltongue:

[georgie_leech]

It's latin. Ancient romans didn't have busses. Plural is boni, bonuses is - sadly - widely accepted but a modern construct.

"Sadly" in the sense that not every word that we use follows every grammatical construct from the languages they're derived from? Everyone knows what bonuses means, and insisting that boni is "correct" when "bonuses" is wrong doesn't actually contribute anything. Incidentally, when was the last time you saw someone insist that Universities have multiple campi, or that the Romans placated the masses with Bread and Circi? If you're interested in a genre of music, do you seek out the Magnum Opi of the great composers? When you get a cold, do your sini swell?

[Yanisa]

To bring us back in topic, I just updated my post, did a bit of formatting and realized some minor things. Like mythic gives feats, and ability scores, also 2 succubi can give both a +2 cha and +2 wis. The Ioun stone does stack with Circlet... Wizard gives arcane bond that allows some free feats for Dueling Sword Mastery... And probably more

We reached a grand total of 118 Initiative
But you must be a very lucky very old mythic pirate on a ship and have the sea as favorite terrain to reach that.

Edit: And I name him: Fabio "First in the Fray" Flash; Swiftest and Sexiest Swashbuckler alive

[StreamOfTheSky]

"Sadly" in the sense that not every word that we use follows every grammatical construct from the languages they're derived from? Everyone knows what bonuses means, and insisting that boni is "correct" when "bonuses" is wrong doesn't actually contribute anything. Incidentally, when was the last time you saw someone insist that Universities have multiple campi, or that the Romans placated the masses with Bread and Circi? If you're interested in a genre of music, do you seek out the Magnum Opi of the great composers? When you get a cold, do your sini swell?

I sympathize with Spore. It still annoys me when people pronounce forte as "for-tay" rather than "fort." I guess they don't realize they're saying, "that's my loud music." :annoyed:

[Ravens_cry]

English is what it is. It has no standardization committee, no laws pertaining to its usage. If the majority use a word a certain way, then that is 'correct'
Latin is lovely, and I intend to learn me some someday, but this is English, and English is a bastard, in both senses of the word.

[grarrrg]

Very good work so far, not complaining but...

Duelist PrC should go in Class Abilities for +2
Remove "see feats" from behind the Familiar, as it is gained from Wizard levels now.

"The build" lists Duelist as an Archetype, but it's a PrC.

[Yanisa]

Very good work so far, not complaining but...

Duelist PrC should go in Class Abilities for +2
Remove "see feats" from behind the Familiar, as it is gained from Wizard levels now.

"The build" lists Duelist as an Archetype, but it's a PrC.

Thanks for pointing out and fixed.

I did bloat the build a lot by specifying archtypes/prestige classes, it looks rather silly. :smalltongue: