TWF Warforged

[Dr.Gara]

I was in a conversation earlier today, and I was struck by an idea. I want to wield two swords as a Warforged, re-fluffed as internal stored weapons. My thinking is that a Warblade might be the best way to go about this, with a focus on Tiger Claw. General questions end up being:

How bad of an idea is this?
How can I make this decent?
What kind of swords would I end up wanting to use?
Could another class be better?

I'd prefer to stick with Warforged, and I'm not particularly interested in something like a Rogue or other "sneaky" classes. We're starting from level one.

[Nihilarian]

Isn't there a warforged component that does something like that?

Either way, dual-wielding isn't terrible for warblades so you should be fine.

[Ravens_cry]

Have you seen the Scout Warforged model? It might be a little bit better at this since it gets, I believe, a Dex bonus.

[Dr.Gara]

Have you seen the Scout Warforged model? It might be a little bit better at this since it gets, I believe, a Dex bonus.

I have seen it, but it seems sort of terrible to me. -2 Strength on top of the other -2s Warforged already get. Also, 20ft movement speed. It seems like a direct downgrade to me.

[Nihilarian]

I have seen it, but it seems sort of terrible to me. -2 Strength on top of the other -2s Warforged already get. Also, 20ft movement speed. It seems like a direct downgrade to me.it's decent for a spellcaster or non-melee rogue.

[Coidzor]

I was in a conversation earlier today, and I was struck by an idea. I want to wield two swords as a Warforged, re-fluffed as internal stored weapons. My thinking is that a Warblade might be the best way to go about this, with a focus on Tiger Claw. General questions end up being:

How bad of an idea is this?
How can I make this decent?
What kind of swords would I end up wanting to use?
Could another class be better?

I'd prefer to stick with Warforged, and I'm not particularly interested in something like a Rogue or other "sneaky" classes. We're starting from level one.

It's not terrible, though the penalty to dexterity isn't doing you any favors. ToB means you're not going badly wrong, so as long as the party doesn't push it to the limit you should be contributing as expected.

You're already using ToB and Tiger Claw, so that's... most of it. If you want to mix in some Totemist with it, then Stormguard Warrior could be rather potent.

Honestly I'm not sure that it really matters all that much if you go dual short swords or shortsword + longsword or kukri + scimitar. Though if you want to go with Blood in the Water, then a higher Crit range is better.

Tigerclaw-focused Warblade is probably the best directly face-smashing TWF build. There's other builds that can be better in certain situations, especially if you want to layer on the bonus damage dice, but Warblade is serviceable and provides a nice safety net of baseline efficacy.

[Nihilarian]

It's not terrible, though the penalty to dexterity isn't doing you any favors. ToB means you're not going badly wrong, so as long as the party doesn't push it to the limit you should be contributing as expected.
What penalty?

[Dr.Gara]

New question now. What kind of Composite Armor feat should I take, if any? Having Mithral Body would give me a good AC boost from go, but would definitely slow me down with the other feats TWF needs to work.

[Nihilarian]

New question now. What kind of Composite Armor feat should I take, if any? Having Mithral Body would give me a good AC boost from go, but would definitely slow me down with the other feats TWF needs to work.How high is you Dex going to be? If it's +1 or less, I'd go Adamantine. Otherwise, Mithral.

[Dr.Gara]

How high is you Dex going to be? If it's +1 or less, I'd go Adamantine. Otherwise, Mithral.

Higher then that for sure. I need at least 15 dex to qualify for Two-Weapon Fighting. Probably as high as I can get it at first level. Are there any other pertinent feats I might want?

[Sir Chuckles]

Higher then that for sure. I need at least 15 dex to qualify for Two-Weapon Fighting. Probably as high as I can get it at first level. Are there any other pertinent feats I might want?

Not a feat, per se, but the ever loved Gloves of the Balanced Hand should be a decent goal.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Don't spend a feat on ITWF or GTWF, just get TWF (or Ranger 2) and get Gloves of the Balanced Hand in MIC.

Consider making it a Divine Gish build, something like (Cloistered) Cleric 1/ Archivist (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20051007a&page=3) X, using DMM: Persist with Flame Blade and Ice Axe, eventually adding Fell Drain and Fell Frighten to each of those. Get Rebuke Dragons from Dragon Magic and dip Sacred Exorcist and you'll effectively have double the Turn Undead pool for activating Divine Metamagic.

Starting at 1st level, assuming two flaws (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterFlaws.htm) (Insomniac and either Aligned Devotion (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=258440#30) or Fussy (Dragon 328 p42, become sickened when drinking a potion):
LG (exalted) Warforged Cloistered Cleric 1 (of an ideal), Knowledge Devotion, Planning domain (Extend Spell), Undeath domain (Extra Turning); TWF, Persistent Spell, DMM: Persistent. Use Bless or Divine Favor with DMM: Persist starting out. Note that the Undeath domain gives Extra Turning and Detect Undead with your single level dip, both of which are just as good at combating the undead as emulating them.

Take Archivist for at least its 11th level, dipping a single level of Sacred Exorcist asap. At 4th level you should be able to DMM: Persist your Ice Axe and Flame Blade spells. You should also start using (Lesser Rod of Extended) Luminous Armor at that level. You should eventually DMM: Persist the whole party with Elation (BoED), Mass Lesser Vigor (SC), and Righteous Wrath of the Faithful (SC), plus buff yourself with Divine Power and possibly Divine Favor, among others.

[Darrin]

How bad of an idea is this?
How can I make this decent?



It's pretty hard to screw up a Warblade




What kind of swords would I end up wanting to use?



If you want to use an Armblade (attached component, Eberron Campaign Setting), then this is treated as a bastard sword, and you'd need to take EWP: Bastard Sword. If you want to wield two of them, then you'll want to take Oversize TWF (Complete Adventurer), and eventually Power Attack/Leap Attack/Shock Trooper/etc. However, all those feats on top of the TWF chain is a bit much for a Warblade. You might need a couple flaws or a dip into Fighter/Ranger to get everything working quickly.




Could another class be better?



A Swift Hunter build (Scout 4/Ranger X) is one of the better methods to get decent damage out of a TWF build. Check the Swift Hunter Handbook (http://dictummortuum.blogspot.com/2011/09/swift-hunters-handbook.html) for more details. I also have some sample Swift Hunter builds in my TWF OffHandbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=15034585).

If you want your swords grafted onto your arms, then you may consider Psychic Warrior, which gets enough bonus feats it can do a very decent job at TWF. Graft weapon is a 3rd level power, though, so you'd have to wait 7 levels to get it, and it would burn 10 PP every day to graft both weapons. On the upside, you're not locked into bastard swords, so you could save some feats that way.


New question now. What kind of Composite Armor feat should I take, if any? Having Mithral Body would give me a good AC boost from go, but would definitely slow me down with the other feats TWF needs to work.

Mithral Body works best with the higher Dex most TWF builds need, but... given how many other feats you need, you probably won't have room for it.

[AnonymousPepper]

Adamantine Body is nice enough that it's absolutely worth taking a flaw for, period, if you don't have enough feats for it already. The DR2/Adamantine is awesome at early levels, and the AC bonus is fantastic... and you don't even need to pay for it.

It does have drawbacks, but there are definitely ways around it. Two things really would help Adamantine Body out:

First, buy a Tooth of Dahlver-Nar (Savnok). 2000GP, Tome of Magic, page 79. You ignore movement speed penalties from armor. That brings your land speed back up to 30 base.

Second, grab the Nimbleness ASA for your body. +1 bonus, Magic Item Compendium, page 13. Reduces that awful armor check penalty by two AND increases your max dex bonus by one. +1 to your touch AC and taking away 40% of your armor check penalty? You'd be an idiot not to take it.

[SinsI]

Spending feats on anything that can be acquired via Fighter Bonus Feats is not the best idea past the first few levels. Buy a few Pearls of Power II and ask your wizard to give you all such feats you want using Heroics spell (for 10 min/caster level). Or just buy/make yourself a continuous item that does that. The bonus is that you can change your feat choices, so one battle you melee using TWF, another you fight long range with a bow, next one you use a tripping/AOO build...

[Dr.Gara]

Spending feats on anything that can be acquired via Fighter Bonus Feats is not the best idea past the first few levels. Buy a few Pearls of Power II and ask your wizard to give you all such feats you want using Heroics spell (for 10 min/caster level). Or just buy/make yourself a continuous item that does that. The bonus is that you can change your feat choices, so one battle you melee using TWF, another you fight long range with a bow, next one you use a tripping/AOO build...

No wizard. Party make up is going to be a myself, a Bard, a Cleric, a Rogue, a Sorcerer, and a Swashbuckler who's going to multiclass whole bunch.

[docnessuno]

While i'm a big fan of the already mentioned Swift hunter build i think a TWF Warblade can do quite well.

Warforged scout

Dex > Con/Int/Wis > Str/Cha

Warblade 3 / Swordsage 2 / Warblade +2 / Broodclaw master 3

Feats (not in order, requires 2 flaws):
Mithral body
Two weapon fighting
Improved two weapon fighting
Weapon focus (Dagger) [Bonus]
Ironheart aura
Stormguard warrior
Weapon finesse
Shadow blade

[Coidzor]

What penalty?

Well that was a brainfart moment. :smallredface:

[AnonymousPepper]

No wizard. Party make up is going to be a myself, a Bard, a Cleric, a Rogue, a Sorcerer, and a Swashbuckler who's going to multiclass whole bunch.

Buy him a second-level Knowstone and THEN buy him some second-level Pearls of Power for Heroics, then.