Reincarnation trouble (thought excercise)

[Lightlawbliss]

So after a recent discussion with some people in one of my current groups, I came up with an interesting thought: what are the worst forms to reincarnate somebody of a given class into?

to start the thread off, I will give what caused the thought.

Artificer turned will-o'-wisp

[Slipperychicken]

Druid -> Warforged, if the composite plating violates the druid code.

A fighter (or similar class) could come back as a toad (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/toad.htm). That renders most everything about the fighter worthless. Strength = 1 (or original score -9 depending on how you rule it), can't wield weapons, drop to Diminutive size (so even if you could wield weapons, they're dealing like 1d2), no natural attacks, and speed = 5ft.

[TuggyNE]

A Bard with Perform: Sing who comes back as a Buomman or whatever those creatures are that have a racial vow of silence. Can't use most of his abilities at all.

[Lord Vukodlak]

A Bard with Perform: Sing who comes back as a Buomman or whatever those creatures are that have a racial vow of silence. Can't use most of his abilities at all.

You misunderstand their vow of silence, they can't speak words but they can communicate in other ways or make sounds. Nothing stops a Buomman from singing they just can't use words in the song.

[MadGreenSon]

Isn't the Buomman silence a choice they make, not a trait of the race?
If you're reincarnated as one shouldn't you be able to speak if you want?

I mean, I'm all for respecting other people's cultures, but still...

[TuggyNE]

You misunderstand their vow of silence, they can't speak words but they can communicate in other ways or make sounds. Nothing stops a Buomman from singing they just can't use words in the song.

That's … not actually a song? :smallconfused:

Edit: I will say it's not nearly as bad as some other examples, of course. That's because there really aren't all that many truly terrible combinations; most are only a little suboptimal, not "nothing works now".

[Yanisa]

That's … not actually a song? :smallconfused:

Edit: I will say it's not nearly as bad as some other examples, of course. That's because there really aren't all that many truly terrible combinations; most are only a little suboptimal, not "nothing works now".

It would be humming, I guess, which is a form of singing.

And I think most classes would suck as a toad. Including the bard, have you ever hear a frog sing? No party wants to listen to that. :smalltongue:

[Lightlawbliss]

a toad would certainly suck, though all you need is a buff to have a natural attack, potentially with blood wind, and sneak attack builds are happy.

[Yanisa]

a toad would certainly suck, though all you need is a buff to have a natural attack, potentially with blood wind, and sneak attack builds are happy.

Are there spells that give an animal without natural attack the ability to gain natural attacks?

[Urpriest]

Are there spells that give an animal without natural attack the ability to gain natural attacks?

Nothing stops a creature without natural attacks from gaining natural attacks. For one, everything with simple weapon proficiency has unarmed strikes.

[Mnemnosyne]

A Bard with Perform: Sing who comes back as a Buomman or whatever those creatures are that have a racial vow of silence. Can't use most of his abilities at all.
Bad example. Buommans explicitly communicate through song, and in fact have a +2 racial bonus to Perform (sing). And as for songs without words not being songs, I would still call this performance (http://http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oavMtUWDBTM) singing.

[Slipperychicken]

Bad example. Buommans explicitly communicate through song, and in fact have a +2 racial bonus to Perform (sing). And as for songs without words not being songs, I would still call this performance (http://http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oavMtUWDBTM) singing.

Adding to this, scat is a thing (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbL9vr4Q2LU#t=0m49s). As Ella Fitzgerald and countless other vocalists prove, you don't need words to sing.

Also, Bards don't even need to use vocalizations in their performance. They can simply use instrumental performances, acting, miming, or dancing instead.


Nothing stops a creature without natural attacks from gaining natural attacks. For one, everything with simple weapon proficiency has unarmed strikes.

Would a toad monk be able to use its unarmed strike?

[Lightlawbliss]

...
Would a toad monk be able to use its unarmed strike?

yes it can, assuming intelligent reading of the rules and not the dysfunctional reading of the rules.

[TuggyNE]

Bad example. Buommans explicitly communicate through song, and in fact have a +2 racial bonus to Perform (sing). And as for songs without words not being songs, I would still call this performance (http://http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oavMtUWDBTM) singing.

Well, I'm thoroughly embarrassed. (Still puzzled by the odd definition of songs, but whatever.)

[XmonkTad]

Bard/Evangelists have to use Perform(Oratory). Boumman would have some problems with that, but Kobolds sound like yappy dogs. One can't talk, the other can't be listened to.

[Slipperychicken]

Bard/Evangelists have to use Perform(Oratory). Boumman would have some problems with that, but Kobolds sound like yappy dogs. One can't talk, the other can't be listened to.

Well, it's not like they take a penalty to Charisma for it. They even have Sorcerer as a favored class.

[iceman10058]

i think a dwarf turning into a giant or an elf turning into an orc rather funny

[Renen]

That's … not actually a song? :smallconfused:

Edit: I will say it's not nearly as bad as some other examples, of course. That's because there really aren't all that many truly terrible combinations; most are only a little suboptimal, not "nothing works now".

Ahem... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1EG-MKy4so

[Toliudar]

And I think most classes would suck as a toad. Including the bard, have you ever hear a frog sing? No party wants to listen to that. :smalltongue:

709,000 YouTube views beg to differ. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49EoV50oba0)