Am I Going to Kill My Players?

[animemetalhead]

I'm running a mid-1860s, vaguely steampunk-ish, gun-heavy Pathfinder campaign, and I'm working on a fairly challenging encounter as an end boss in their current mission.

Basically, they're collecting 4 high-powered ancient artifacts to stop an evil empire from getting their hands on them first, but the empire's agents have beaten them to the last one. The party have already delivered one to their superiors, and they're carrying two of the others with them.

Before they head into the final dungeon, when they're resting, I plan on ambushing them. Here are the two characters springing the ambush:

Aurora Augustine
Human Gunslinger (Pistolero) 4/ Monk (Martial Artist 2)

Str 12
Dex 22
Con 14
Int 12
Wis 18
Cha 12

HP: 45
AC: 25 Touch: 23 Flat-Footed: 17
Fort: +9 Ref: +13 Will: +8
CMB: +6 CMD: 29

Feats:
Weapon Focus (revolver), Dodge, Two-Weapon Fighting, Combat Reflexes, Point-Blank Shot, Rapid Shot

Weapons:
+1 Revolver x2: +13 to hit (+14 within 30 ft., +10 when full-attacking), 1d8 +7 damage
Unarmed Strike: +6 to hit (+5/+5/+0 Flurry of Blows), 1d6 +1 damage

------

Marcus Octavius
Human Inquisitor 5/ Gunslinger 3/ Urban Ranger 1

Str 12
Dex 20
Con 16
Int 14
Wis 18
Cha 14

HP: 69
AC: 23 Touch: 19 Flat-Footed: 16
Fort: +12 Ref: +11 Will: +9
CMB: +8 CMD: 27

Feats:
Weapon Focus (rifle), Dodge, Point-Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, Far Shot, Precise Shot

Weapons:
+1 Rifle: +14 to hit (+16 against humans), 1d10+6 damage
+1 Revolver: +13 to hit, 1d8 +7 damage
Masterwork Rapier: +9 to hit, 1d6+1 damage

Misc:
Favored Enemy: Human

Stats rolled as any of my player's characters are, gear bought appropriate for a level 6 or 9 character, respectively.


The party consists of:
Human Cleric 5/ Gunslinger 1
Half-Elf Bard 3/ Gunslinger 3
Kitsune Dervish Dancer Bard 5/ Gunslinger 1
Human Samurai 6

The half-elf is not very optimised, the kitsune and the cleric are both moderately optimised, and the samurai is the most optimised of the party, though they are all slightly under-geared for their level.

I'm mainly worried, because this is going to be close-ranged, that the Monk/Slinger is going to basically walk in and curb-stomp the players (she needs to roll a 3 to hit the samurai's touch AC on a full attack, and he's the highest hit point character). In a few test runs against the Inquisitor (in-story she's his apprentice/assistant, so they'd have sparred at least), she wins 9 times out of 10.

Anyways, it's late and I know I'm probably missing something, so feel free to pester me for more information; I have character sheets for the party if you need further details. I just don't want this to end in a TPK, as that most likely spells the end of the campaign if it happens.

EDIT: I should probably mention this is my first major campaign that I'm running, so if I'm REALLY off-base for this encounter, let me know.

[Gavinfoxx]

Modify the title to say, "Player's Characters?" to reduce the chance of annoying jokes in replies.

[Spore]

Yes you might kill someone in the ambush. Two questions:

1) Why do your NPCs have that absurd amount of attributes? I get that you rolled that but if you do that you may as well just roll the outcome of the combat.

2) I hope you mean level appropriate NPC gear not PC gear since then those Lv9 NPC would be grossly overequipped and really would stomp on your party.

My best guess would be: Level down the 9 hero to 8. Use NPC stat arrays and money for items. Take consumables that are not used if you think the combat gets too heavy (cockiness would drive a NPC to not waste his Potion of Haste when he is in the advantage). Why the changes? 8 class levels gives you a CR 7 encounter, the cohort improves the poor action economy of 1 vs. 4.

Maybe reveal the slower of the both after a round of waiting for a second surprise (decreasing DPR, making the fight exciting and still being logical).

[Captainspork]

Yes you might kill someone in the ambush. Two questions:

1) Why do your NPCs have that absurd amount of attributes? I get that you rolled that but if you do that you may as well just roll the outcome of the combat.

2) I hope you mean level appropriate NPC gear not PC gear since then those Lv9 NPC would be grossly overequipped and really would stomp on your party.

My best guess would be: Level down the 9 hero to 8. Use NPC stat arrays and money for items. Take consumables that are not used if you think the combat gets too heavy (cockiness would drive a NPC to not waste his Potion of Haste when he is in the advantage). Why the changes? 8 class levels gives you a CR 7 encounter, the cohort improves the poor action economy of 1 vs. 4.

Maybe reveal the slower of the both after a round of waiting for a second surprise (decreasing DPR, making the fight exciting and still being logical).

I would certainly tone back the gear level of the NPCs since it does sound like they were rolled as PCs.

You said you plan on ambushing the PCs at camp...do they not set watches, or do they not have a reasonable chance to see the NPCs coming? It would be interesting to see them turn your own ambush against you. PCs have a way of doing that. :smallbiggrin:

Do you have a feel for the type of CR encounters they've faced in the past? And, equipment aside, do the PCs have any items that could help them (potions, etc)?

[animemetalhead]

Yes you might kill someone in the ambush. Two questions:

1) Why do your NPCs have that absurd amount of attributes? I get that you rolled that but if you do that you may as well just roll the outcome of the combat.

2) I hope you mean level appropriate NPC gear not PC gear since then those Lv9 NPC would be grossly overequipped and really would stomp on your party.

My best guess would be: Level down the 9 hero to 8. Use NPC stat arrays and money for items. Take consumables that are not used if you think the combat gets too heavy (cockiness would drive a NPC to not waste his Potion of Haste when he is in the advantage). Why the changes? 8 class levels gives you a CR 7 encounter, the cohort improves the poor action economy of 1 vs. 4.

Maybe reveal the slower of the both after a round of waiting for a second surprise (decreasing DPR, making the fight exciting and still being logical).

1) Lucky dice rolls, really, combined with using WBL to snag a Belt of Dex +2 for both, and a Headband of Wis for the Inquisitor. I can't seem to get that lucky when rolling my own characters for another campaign, but when I really only need 2 decent stats for an NPC (Dex and Wis), I seem to get lucky and get 2 great ones and a bunch of not bad ones.

2) I did use PC wealth to buy their gear, though the 9 has a bunch of situational magic items that won't come into play in this encounter that used up a good 10k in gold pieces.

I could definitely take a level off of him, probably ranger, since I mainly splashed it for flavor, and it definitely will reduce his damage against 3 of the party members.


I would certainly tone back the gear level of the NPCs since it does sound like they were rolled as PCs.

You said you plan on ambushing the PCs at camp...do they not set watches, or do they not have a reasonable chance to see the NPCs coming? It would be interesting to see them turn your own ambush against you. PCs have a way of doing that. :smallbiggrin:

Do you have a feel for the type of CR encounters they've faced in the past? And, equipment aside, do the PCs have any items that could help them (potions, etc)?

They do set watches. In-story, the samurai is the kitsune's bodyguard, and he takes middle watch by himself (they generally don't mix up watches each night). They've encountered the inquisitor before, at a lower level, and he knows how protective the samurai is of his friend.

Idea is, he casts invisibility on the monk, she sneaks up and pistol-whips the samurai and (ideally) knocks him prone, and before he can recover, she sets herself up in a position to coup de grace the kitsune. At which point she'll demand the other two artifacts that they have, and the Inquisitor will come out from the trees to take them.

Ultimately, it's not supposed to end up in combat, or at least not too one-sided. Honestly, the level 9 is built for long-range combat, so they shouldn't have much issue dispatching him close range if they focus.

Trouble with this party is, it's really hard to judge what sort of CR they can handle; give the samurai room to maneuver and he'll slice damn near anything to ribbons (last combat he was hitting for almost 60 damage per round with power attack). Last time I threw this inquisitor at them, he was at 7th level, and they wiped the floor with him. They were level 4 at the time. Other times I can throw a CR 4 encounter and kill the samurai, though I'm thinking that was his fault since he decided to get up close and personal with bandits wielding shotguns. The last thing I want is for him to hit someone hard enough that they would see him as the biggest threat and focus on him (I know that's a DM call, but I don't believe in softening what a character is going to logically do in combat against an opponent capable of easily separating your top half from your bottom half.)

I think I'll cut their gear down a bit, and possibly drop that level of ranger from the inquisitor, and get some other friends to dry-run the encounter and see how it goes, I can tweak from there. Worst case scenario, I scrap the whole thing and have them go through the last dungeon anyways.

[Spore]

I wouldn't ditch this entirely. There is still an option to be defeated instead of killed. But you'd need a bit more monk levels to have a CMD to bind a dervish dancer with rope.

[Keneth]

Modify the title to say, "Player's Characters?" to reduce the chance of annoying jokes in replies.

Well, it's not gonna be funny now, is it? Spoilsport. :smallannoyed:

[KillianHawkeye]

Modify the title to say, "Player's Characters?" to reduce the chance of annoying jokes in replies.

Aww... that's literally the only reason I clicked this thread. Phooey! :smallfrown: