Swift Warlock.

[omegalith]

http://www.iwcp.co.uk/files/images/newsimg19bee9c2swiftjpg.jpg?width=411&height=219

The Swift, a bird which is incredibly tiny, Incredibly fast and incredibly agile.

One swooped past me today, and it made me think that an awakened one with levels in Warlock could divebomb, blasting away all day long.

Which made me wonder: Is there a stat block for this type of bird, at least in the correct ballpark? If not, what would be fair to give them?

They are the fastest birds in terms of powered, flapping flight after all, even if swooping birds can outpace them in a dive.

[Tarlek Flamehai]

According to Wikipedia, the swiftlet species range from fine (3.7in) to diminutive (10in) in size. Wiki also says they range from 154 (70mph) to 231 (105mph) in speed. Note that unless they can move backwards and hover (I have no idea) they are only Average Maneuverability. Some species have a form of echolocation.

There are no animals with anything like these stats in the game. Feel free to homebrew. I think there are several feats that improve flight acrobatics without actually improving maneuverability.

[Urpriest]

Sparrow Hengeyokai is your best bet.

[Ruethgar]

Seconding Sparrow Hengeyokai.

[CyberThread]

thirding more heineken

happy st paddies !

[(Un)Inspired]

I gonna say Druid is your best bet for this. Turn into the fastest bird for you can find and the natural spell blast your enemies with flyby attacks.

Druids have same of the best blast spells anyway and warlocks do t really do damage when they try to blast.

Bombardment and call avalanche and control winds and flash flood are incredibly awesome and are pretty righteous to use as you blast off into the sunset at swift speed.

[ben-zayb]

Are they capable of making the proper somatic components for an eldritch blast?

[Troacctid]

The best part is that they could do it as a swift action.

[(Un)Inspired]

The best part is that they could do it as a swift action.

Ba dum tish.

[Psyren]

Are they capable of making the proper somatic components for an eldritch blast?

Though it says spells rather than SLAs, you could require that they take a feat like Surrogate Spellcasting to invoke in sparrow form.

[arkangel111]

well you wouldn't need surogate spellcasting or anything like that if you ARE the awakened bird. you would just substitute your movements for it. I personally like the warlock, you can check my sig for a warlock PF conversion. I would just find a small or tiny bird (i think thrush is the std) and change a few things as appropriate, as long as you can justify things and try to keep it fair I wouldn't see why you couldn't change up the hummingbird, lose some maneuverability to add some speed (maybe 10ft per maneuverability lost), perhaps give a runx5 as well.

[VoxRationis]

This is a really fun idea, though fluff-wise it seems odd that the druid is enchanting all these birds for the purpose of having them make pacts with infernal powers. Do fey create warlocks? I vaguely remember something about that being in Complete Mage.
Hm. 250 XP/bird; each bird can probably level up to 3rd level or so off of potential enemies found around the forest without endangering itself too much; awaken is a 5th level spell, so the druid is at least 9th level. If the druid invests the XP they would have put into their 10th level into enchanting these, they can get 9000/250=36 low-level warlocks doing 2d6 damage/attack, plus relevant invocations.
(Incidentally, with a swift's high flight speed, Shot on the Run may actually be a relevant feat for them, unless they invest in Eldritch Spear; with that feat, they'd be able to start and end their turn out of range of retribution, safely in undergrowth or trees some distance away.)
A patrol force like that would create interesting encounters, and you could scale them pretty quickly, just with differing numbers of them by themselves or as a support force for the encounter with the druid who created them.

Also, you should have the characters make Will saves if they want to hurt them, since they're so adorable.

[squiggit]

Do fey create warlocks? I vaguely remember something about that being in Complete Mage.

Fey warlock is a thing, yeah. Though in 3.5 it's just fluff to be able to justify good warlocks.

[Psyren]

Fey warlock is a thing, yeah. Though in 3.5 it's just fluff to be able to justify good warlocks.

Or neutral - CN is a very common alignment for fey, particularly the ones whose tricks can border on mean-spiritedness.

[VoxRationis]

Isn't it odd that the source of a warlock's power has no effect on their choice of invocations? I suppose the designers just want the DM to do that work for them.

[Vhaidara]

I feel like the fey was an afterthought. I mean, you have a class feature called Fiendish Resilience.

[(Un)Inspired]

Oh those fiendish fey. You never know what they'll get up to.

[VoxRationis]

You mean like how sorcerers went from "unknown source of power, and some think it could be due to draconic ancestry" to every other option for sorcerers relating in some way to draconic ancestry?

[(Un)Inspired]

You mean like how sorcerers went from "unknown source of power, and some think it could be due to draconic ancestry" to every other option for sorcerers relating in some way to draconic ancestry?

Ugh that always bothers me. Sometimes I just want to play a man with magic flowing through his veins.

I don't want to think about my characters grandmother getting rogered by a monster.

[Vhaidara]

PHB2 added Celestial and Infernal Heritage, to be fair.

[VoxRationis]

I know. Is it that difficult to believe that in a world where you can make people who perform works of magic by study and rational planning, you get other people who do it by instinct and intuition?

[shortround]

I came to this thread hoping I had overlooked some sort of feat that lets Skirmish damage scale with Warlock levels because that sounds like a neat way to deal with the fact that you only get one eldritch blast without Glaive or Claws, but this thread has been pretty entertaining in its own ways.

oh and it totally would let you incorporate that sort of fey/nature aspect, too, when multiclassing with Scout.

[(Un)Inspired]

In the games my friends and I play, sorcerers are taught to use magic. They just use a different school of thought for how to manipulate magic and thus use it differently than wizards do.

[Anlashok]

Isn't it odd that the source of a warlock's power has no effect on their choice of invocations?
Basically the only good idea implemented in the 4e warlock was unique class features and powers based on your power source.

[omegalith]

This is a really fun idea, though fluff-wise it seems odd that the druid is enchanting all these birds for the purpose of having them make pacts with infernal powers. Do fey create warlocks? I vaguely remember something about that being in Complete Mage.
Hm. 250 XP/bird; each bird can probably level up to 3rd level or so off of potential enemies found around the forest without endangering itself too much; awaken is a 5th level spell, so the druid is at least 9th level. If the druid invests the XP they would have put into their 10th level into enchanting these, they can get 9000/250=36 low-level warlocks doing 2d6 damage/attack, plus relevant invocations.
(Incidentally, with a swift's high flight speed, Shot on the Run may actually be a relevant feat for them, unless they invest in Eldritch Spear; with that feat, they'd be able to start and end their turn out of range of retribution, safely in undergrowth or trees some distance away.)
A patrol force like that would create interesting encounters, and you could scale them pretty quickly, just with differing numbers of them by themselves or as a support force for the encounter with the druid who created them.

Also, you should have the characters make Will saves if they want to hurt them, since they're so adorable.

...Okay, a Druid manufacturing these guys as forest guardians is even more fun than the idea of a single one as a character.

And yeah, this is basically what I was referring to: The fun of the idea. Actual Swifts instead of people who can turn into birds because the point of it is that it's little blasty birdies. Warlocks instead of some more optimised form of blaster or caster because the integral part of the idea is that a Swift Warlock can do these harrying fly-bys all day long.

Being a team guarding the forest and chasing out intruders even gives them a sensible reason to exist!

[Psyren]

Isn't it odd that the source of a warlock's power has no effect on their choice of invocations? I suppose the designers just want the DM to do that work for them.

Should it though? You can refluff even the most fiendish ones to be fey-themed instead. For example: the Shatter invocation, instead of being a word of Dark Speech, can instead be a word of pure chaos (which breaks things because hey, chaos) or a word of primal nature (which breaks things because manufactured, unclean! Unclean!)


I feel like the fey was an afterthought. I mean, you have a class feature called Fiendish Resilience.

This too - I mean, it's fast healing, you can file the serial numbers off pretty easily. "A rose by any other name," as the great bard once said.

[Vhaidara]

This too - I mean, it's fast healing, you can file the serial numbers off pretty easily. "A rose by any other name," as the great bard once said.

Oh, I'm not arguing against the refluff idea. I abuse refluff wherever I find cool stuff with what I consider fluff requirements. I straight up remove the warlock's alignment restriction. Same with hexblade.

I was just pointing out how WotC clearly had made warlock to be fiend powered, then went "Wait, we don't want to require them to be evil I know, let's make fey an option!" and didn't even bother modifying the rest of the entry to reflect that.

[VoxRationis]

I understand the merits and arguments behind refluffing everything, but I am wary of the problem where that leads, where the forces of Evil and Good have exactly the same tools and methods and mechanics behind them, and only differ cosmetically.

[Psyren]

I understand the merits and arguments behind refluffing everything, but I am wary of the problem where that leads, where the forces of Evil and Good have exactly the same tools and methods and mechanics behind them, and only differ cosmetically.

So, Mindrape/Sanctify/Programmed Amnesia? :smallwink:

Joking aside, I think mechanics not being restricted to certain factions is a good thing. If Evil magic is substantially different from Good magic, you can run into heavy balance issues. Imagine if Blasphemy existed but Holy Word did not - evil clerics would have a significant advantage over good ones at high levels. I also hate that good clerics can spontaneously heal and evil ones can't, because it implies two rather silly things: (a) that healing is always Good regardless of context, and (b) that evil clerics are either expected to march around town with a retinue of undead at all times, or become undead themselves (and possibly even their party.)

[VoxRationis]

You can run into issues—that's a matter of implementation—, but the key is that Good and Evil are not exactly the same, but with different names slapped on them.
And as for your earlier example, yes, I take exception to spells which are Good or Evil versions of the same thing.
Also, could we not talk about this too much? I've already derailed one or more threads by accident and this is just too fun an idea to give the same treatment.

[VoxRationis]

Does an Awakened animal produce sentient offspring? The spell is listed as having an "Instantaneous" duration, so it produces a permanent, non-magical change in the target. Does that change extend to the genetic level? (Not that genetics really means much in a world where large reptilian creatures can mate with mice and create fire-breathing hybrids.)

[Abithrios]

One important thing to consider is just how fast to make them. A mile per hour is (in the D&D approximation) 10 feet per 6 seconds. Overland travel is generally assumed to be at the creature's move speed once each round (as opposed to the hustling normally done in combat (twice your speed in a round). One way of assigning a speed is to find the average overland speed in mph and multiplying by 10 to get a move speed in feet per move action. If this speed is not as fast as the animal is seen going for short distances, it may need a tactical speed boost (such as going farther with the run action).

According to Wikipedia, a common swift can travel more than 200,000 km in a single year. This converts directly to about 14.19 mi/hour, or a fly speed of about 140 feet. On the other hand, that is just if it keeps flying continuously for the whole year, which is not possible for your typical animal in D&D. If you assume 8 hours of overland per day, the estimate goes up to about 42.56 mi/hr, or about 425 feet per move action. If you assume that the motion is not equally spread out on each day (for example, traveling farther while migrating), then the speed would be even higher (maybe 500 feet?).

This is very fast for a creature that isn't teleporting or similar, which makes sense for a creature built for flying quickly (unlike something like a dragon, which is much more heavily built, so should be slower).

A warlock like this that can use its eldritch blast in the middle of a move action could be quite annoying for enemies that do not have options longer than a range of medium.

Having recently discovered the awesomeness that is Tome of Battle, I am now thinking about delivering strikes in the middle of a very long movement, getting most of the damage from the strike itself, not from the attack used to deliver it. I am not sure if spring attack would work, however. Flyby attack would definitely allow a strike, but not prevent attacks of opportunity.

Back to the warlock idea, flyby attack is definitely invocation/eldritch blast friendly, and does not require any feats to get (just the fly speed you were born with).

[Socratov]

OK, for those lamenting the fiendish flavour of the Warlock's invocations: this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=251363) gives some pro- and counterarguments for refluffing the Warlock's abilities and if so, how to refluff them...

you could skim the thread, or even let Google do the work for you if you want targeted ideas for refluffing the names of the class features and invocations.

Good luck :smallamused:

[omegalith]

Hmm... What are the best supporting invocations for this concept?

[Just to Browse]

thirding more heineken

happy st paddies !

Water. All over my screen.

[VoxRationis]

Well, there's one that gives you entropic shield, I think. If they're high enough level, Flee the Scene makes the guerilla tactics even more effective. Keeping track of a particular swift can be difficult enough without there being a high probability it's not even real.

[Socratov]

Hmm... What are the best supporting invocations for this concept?

well, you'll obviously want the feat Fly By attack (immensely useful and Fell Flight qualifies)

then you will want something to augment your EB (don't take spear, you won't need it with fly by), with chain and vitriolic blast

You will want Flee the Scene (panic button galore), Dark one's own luck (boost saves), Chilling Tentacles (don't allow them to follow you to the skies), See the Unseen (because it's fantastic to see invisible if you want to hit ranged targets) and the general useful Baleful Utterance and Beguiling Influence, Devour magic.

[VoxRationis]

Don't those assume mid-level warlocks? How high-level are these birds anyway? I thought 3rd might be pushing it myself...

You'll tell us when you come up with your final implementation, right?