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View Full Version : DM Help Genre shifting: How might it be best accomplished?



MonkeySage
2014-03-16, 03:09 PM
Currently I'm running a heroic adventure for 6+ people(yeah, I know, big party), and I'm wondering how best I may accomplish the occasional genre shift. I love when this happens in other areas, particularly the occasional trip down horror lane. Among other things, I know that for that, I would need to create a sense of powerlessness(my players are usually capable of overcoming the odds without even going unconscious). What else may I need to properly shift the genre from heroic to horrific? Should it be a sharp unexpected change or a gradual metamorphosis? What about bouncing back afterwards?

CarpeGuitarrem
2014-03-16, 04:04 PM
Figure out what "heroic" and "horrific" mean for you. From there, you can go in a few different directions. Here's two I thought of.

Incompatibility. Heroism and horror cannot coexist, because the definitions you're using are contradictory. In other words, the story which everyone thinks is heroic is revealed to actually be horrific, because the ideals of heroism are a facade to the darker reality. This plot arc is about a spiral downwards into the corruption of the heroes.

The Whole Picture. Everything you thought you knew about your heroism is false, but that doesn't mean heroism is dead. Now you're fighting to figure out how to be a hero again, now that the world is revealed as an awful place. The things you relied on are corrupt, but that doesn't mean you can't find ways to fight back. This plot arc is about a fall into darkness, then a fight back up to the top.

veti
2014-03-16, 05:07 PM
I know I'm probably reading the outline way too literally here, but...

Once upon a time there was a game system called 'Torg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torg)', based on the premise that 'core Earth', by which it meant our-world as it existed in the early 90s, had been invaded by half a dozen different realities with their own idea of "laws of nature".

The game mechanics were - novel, and a bit weird. But the basic idea - of multiple realities coexisting in one world - was eminently copyable. The cool part was that PCs could come from any of these realities; to them, it appears that "their world" has just turned weird and this other place (our earth) appeared outside it, and they don't know how to put it right but obviously it's going to involve a lot of travel and exploring very strange areas. There are quite detailed rules for using technology in areas that don't support it (e.g. using magic in core earth, or guns in the fantasy domain).

Anyway, the alien settings included both the inevitable pseudo-medieval fantasy world, which (also inevitably) had landed on the area known to us as "Britain", plus bits of Scandinavia, and a pseudo-Cthulhoid horror world (centred, for some reason, on Indonesia). For a change of pace, you can play with cybertech, or pulp fiction, or dinosaurs. (And let's face it, isn't that what everyone really wants?)

MonkeySage
2014-03-16, 05:18 PM
I do love messing with my players... hehe, last night a player who previously refused to play with our guest player changed his mind. He'd been absent for 1 session and when he returned, I had him wake up in a pterodactyl nest... above rapids. With none of his equipment, save that cursed sword.

I've established that dinosaurs and the like are very much alive in this world.

Was a laugh for everyone, though that one player was, as you can imagine, terrified at his own defenselessness.

Food for thought ^_^.

Vrock_Summoner
2014-03-16, 05:31 PM
Ever heard of Ravenloft? *sets book on desk and walks away, strange mist starts to appear*

Fabletop
2014-03-16, 07:01 PM
Currently I'm running a heroic adventure for 6+ people(yeah, I know, big party), and I'm wondering how best I may accomplish the occasional genre shift. I love when this happens in other areas, particularly the occasional trip down horror lane. Among other things, I know that for that, I would need to create a sense of powerlessness(my players are usually capable of overcoming the odds without even going unconscious). What else may I need to properly shift the genre from heroic to horrific? Should it be a sharp unexpected change or a gradual metamorphosis? What about bouncing back afterwards?

First make sure your group is onboard. It can get ugly if not.

I reccomend sharp shifts; make them react to it. Any kind of introduction to a shifg can ime kill pace.

Bouncing back (to the original?) is ill-advised unless the players are for it. Once you shify, run with it. Hard.

I've run a few genre shifts & my experience is pound the players with the new convections. It can liven a game where they've gotten used to or mastered the rules.

Pathfinder shifted to Call of Cthulhu. Shadowrun shifted to Eclipse Phase.

HammeredWharf
2014-03-17, 07:29 AM
Foreshadowing is highly advised. "The Mists came and you're suddenly in Ravenloft" is a really bad plot twist IMO. On the other hand, if the hidden altar the party has been looking for the entire campaign turns to be connected to the Mists, it may be a really enjoyable adventure. The Far Realm could also be used, but it's a bit higher-level IMO.

Red Fel
2014-03-17, 09:12 AM
Agreeing with Fable and Hammered. A genre shift that is sudden and unexpected, and one which the players were totally unprepared for OOCly as well as ICly, can burn a lot of bridges. And while we all joke about messing with our players, there is a line that one generally ought not cross.

With regard to the genre shift, you first need to appreciate the suspension of disbelief. The suspension is key - the tone you set at the outset of the game is the tone the players will expect throughout, except where such changes are understandable given the established rules. In other words, if it is foreseeable and comprehensible that a game about heroics could turn into horror, or vice-versa, this isn't going to break the suspension of disbelief. By contrast, if the game started as knights and wizards and dragons, and suddenly turned into Watership Down, the suspension of disbelief is shattered beyond repair. So keep that in mind - if you're going to switch genres, make it understandable. Heroes going on a noble quest to stop a wicked cult engaging in rituals that awaken the Old Ones means you can shift from heroics to horror easily; suddenly plunging day into endless night may not work as well.

Second, only do it once. Going back and forth between genres can create serious mood whiplash. Occasional changes in mood - a creepy cave in a light-hearted game, or a rowdy tavern in a horror campaign - are fine. But hopping back and forth is, at best, extraordinarily challenging. At worst, you'll alienate players who can't find solid ground to stand on.

Third, the transition depends upon the desired effect. If the effect you want is powerlessness, it should be sudden - if your players know this kind of fear is coming, they will make preparations to avoid it; vetoing fair preparations is dirty pool. Let me also say that horror is not about actual powerlessness, but rather the feeling of powerlessness - the knowledge that all the power you have cannot save you. So before you think of stealing the Wizard's spellbook, be sure you understand what you're trying to achieve.

Bouncing back afterwards, like the initial transition, only works once. Horror is frightening because it is new and unknown, unforeseen and unpredictable. Once you've been there, once you've solved the mystery and seen behind the curtain, the unknown is no longer the unknown. Trying it twice becomes routine, like any other new encounter. Once is scary, twice is rote. So get all your bang out of that first dose, because it may well be your only one.

With regard to what you need to create horror, I've said this before (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16172635&postcount=4) - true horror involves ambiance. A series of random, ordinary, perfectly explicable mundane events which, when viewed through the lens of a paranoid human mind, are too coincidental to be coincidental. Horror is what happens when two people whisper together conspiratorially and then vanish around a corner; when torches flicker in an unseen wind; when the cook scowls at everyone in the kitchens while violently hacking at an unidentifiable piece of fresh, bloody meat. Horror means making your players paranoid; rendering them too terrified to attempt to use their powers; grinning as you inform them that their magical measures detect absolutely nothing out of the ordinary. Surely, they will think, if we couldn't detect any magic, it must be incredibly powerful to evade our detections!

That's what horror is. It's the stuff that exists entirely within the minds of your players. You don't need Vampires, or Fear effects, or anything else concrete - your players will invent their own nightmares. Horror is simply giving them the fuel and letting their imaginations run wild.

CarpeGuitarrem
2014-03-17, 01:00 PM
It's worth noting that horror and action can share a lot of common ground (http://thekitchensink123.blogspot.com/2012/01/call-of-cthulhu-review-of-sorts.html). A lot of action (especially pulp action) goes down against horrific things. The distinction, in my book? In action, you can win. In horror, you can't.

Since genre is (in a large part) how it makes the players feel, you could do this: let the players throw down against horrific forces, then reveal (eventually) that the forces can't be beaten. The switch flips from action (we can win!) to horror (we can't win!).

And if you want to switch back? Let them figure out a way that they can win, despite the odds. (And actually, that creates a stronger action story.)

Ultimately, the best way you can do this is by realizing that action and horror are not "modes" that you switch between; they're elements that you can slip into and out of at will.

Airk
2014-03-18, 10:41 AM
Carefully.

Changing genres on people may result in the game now being a genre they don't want to play and can kill a game in a hurry.

I'd almost go so far as to say "don't do this" because it's so hard to make work. Especially since many game systems don't support different genres equally well.

But at the end of the day, you just have to be careful. If your players signed on for Heroic Fantasy and then you genre shift them into Darkest Dungeon (http://www.darkestdungeon.com/), you are probably killing your game unless you get very lucky.