Favorite Member of the Order of the Scribble

[Teapot Salty]

Hey guys. Title says it all, so I'll just jump right in. My fave is Girard. He's a duel weilding, illusion casting, paranoid but hilarious badass. And as always, go nuts.

[CaDzilla]

Kraagor and Serini are the only ones we've seen who aren't ****s. Soon committed genocide and had a stick up his ass, Girard started his hypocritically own personality cult, Lirian was really uneducated in regards to viruses and snobby against undead, and Dorukan was snobby against sorcerers. Kraagor and Serini appear to just be stereotypes of their respective races, which are good.

[Cizak]

I'm very interested in the party as a whole. I can't wait for the inevitable explanation of what exactly happened between them. As for my favorite individual member, I'd say Girard. As a fictional character, mind you, not as a real person.

[CrispyCriminal]

Kraagor and Serini are the only ones we've seen who aren't ****s. Soon committed genocide and had a stick up his ass, Girard started his hypocritically own personality cult, Lirian was really uneducated in regards to viruses and snobby against undead, and Dorukan was snobby against sorcerers. Kraagor and Serini appear to just be stereotypes of their respective races, which are good.

In their defense, no one is perfect and that is what makes us all so versatile.

For Lirian, she IS a druid. So of course she's going to look down upon undead, they aren't a natural part of this planet's breakfast. (Addendum: They'd probably give it gingivitis too. Sugary little undead morsels of doom.)

Soon is quite a lot like those who believe in a deity, doing something in their name so they don't feel responsible for their actions unless it's against the codes and edicts of their god(s). Except in this case, the gods actually intervene and may push and nudge followers here and there so it's arguably justifiable, albeit heinous to pacifists everywhere.

Girard is what happens when you watch news all the time and just want to have an ideal world of your own, except instead of doing just that and daydream his life away, he focuses on illusions to shape other people's minds and view of the world into something that isn't real...possibly followed by death. It's a step up for him, step down at everyone who disagrees with him. But at least he used this to make sure the gate stayed out of hands that would change the world for the worst instead. After all, in his view if anyone goes looking for him, chances are they may know too much.

And Dorukan, well wizards are always like that. Swear by the book, not the bi-polar. Protecting the gate was his priority like the others, and he did just that, among other things if you get my drift.

For the last two, can't give them much credit to be any better but Kraagor is already down for the count so there isn't much negativity to look for in a dead guy (who likely isn't seeing Valhalla right now), and Serini is likely paranoid too but not so much as Girard was I reckon. Maybe she dipped into druid and befriended the monsters guarding the last gate, and has little incentive to socialize with civilization. Who knows but Rich (a sitcom that won't be on TV near you).

My favorite would be Soon, even though I don't like Paladins much. At least he understood the fundamentals of Edicts and Intentions, which in this case was Duty and Redemption. Plenty of Paladins misunderstand the boundaries of both and cross past one of those lines time and time again because their drill instructor neglected to cast upon them the value of humanity in their duty.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

I wouldn't say I really like any of the Order of the Scribble all that much, that may be because most of the times we saw them was in their inter-party arguments. I suppose if I had to pick a favorite, it would be Soon.

[ChristianSt]

My favorite Scribbler (with the few information we have) is Serini with no one else being a close contender.

I think mostly because of her diary (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0196.html). It just shows to me a rather optimistic, unburdened and curious perspective [kinda like Elan, though not that Elan-crazy]. Girard/Soon/Dorukan share all the same problem for me: I really can't think of why they should have ended up in the spot they ended up [basically ready to slaughter each other without Serini's intervention].

On Kraagor/Lirian I just have too less information to relate at all anyhow. (I have read SoD, but Lirian is a kinda blank character in my eyes.)


But I think since that is all conclusion from a pretty small amount of information, it could massively change when we actually learn something about them (though Serini has a large head start for me).

[Rakoa]

Girard gets my vote. He reminds me of me.

[factotum]

Soon committed genocide

Er, what? When did that happen? :smallconfused:

(If you're referring to the goblin village in SoD, well, firstly, that was a single village, not every single goblin everywhere, ever; secondly, Soon was not personally present; and thirdly, we don't even know if Soon was still *alive* at that point).

[Demolator]

Guys come on, it's all about Dorukan. What a champ.

[JBiddles]

I like Lirian, with Dorukan a close second. While she failed in the end, Lirian shut Xykon down hard. Dorukan got his revenge in the end with the Gate rune.

[CaDzilla]

Er, what? When did that happen? :smallconfused:

(If you're referring to the goblin village in SoD, well, firstly, that was a single village, not every single goblin everywhere, ever; secondly, Soon was not personally present; and thirdly, we don't even know if Soon was still *alive* at that point).

That village was one of many that were slaughtered over the course of years by Soon's crusades. Just because he didn't personally kill a village doesn't mean that it wasn't his fault. Tarquin wasn't present to see Amun-zora's husband die, but he still ordered it to happen.

[factotum]

That village was one of many that were slaughtered over the course of years by Soon's crusades.

Citation needed? Given what the Giant has said about the village raid in SoD (e.g. that some of the paladins present probably Fell for their actions) it doesn't seem likely that it's something they'd be doing on a regular basis--you know, losing your paladin powers is a pretty clear hint that you screwed up?

[Kish]

Citation needed? Given what the Giant has said about the village raid in SoD (e.g. that some of the paladins present probably Fell for their actions) it doesn't seem likely that it's something they'd be doing on a regular basis--you know, losing your paladin powers is a pretty clear hint that you screwed up?

Azure City was a nation dedicated to all that was good and holy...but in many ways failed to live up to its ideals.

...

Most damning, though, is a decades long history of paladins exterminating entire villages of goblins and other humanoids at the behest of their gods.
Not that it's in any way established that that was directly ordered by Soon, but I wish people would stop acting as though "the destruction of proto-Redcloak's village was an isolated and inexplicable incident rather than a decades-long Business As Usual" wasn't contradicted by Word of the Author years and years ago now.

[kivzirrum]

Citation needed? Given what the Giant has said about the village raid in SoD (e.g. that some of the paladins present probably Fell for their actions) it doesn't seem likely that it's something they'd be doing on a regular basis--you know, losing your paladin powers is a pretty clear hint that you screwed up?

I may be remembering wrong, but did the Giant not say he'd leave it up to the audience to decide for themselves whether any of the paladins fell? And I'm pretty sure he also said that it was not an isolated incident, as did Redcloak--though Redcloak is obviously not the most unbiased source.

On topic, it's hard to pick a favorite since so little is known about any of them--and so little of what we do know is positive--but I find the romance between Lirian and Dorukan to be pretty endearing. Also, Soon, in his few appearances, seems like a pretty honorable fellow, which I find admirable enough.

[ChristianSt]

Citation needed? Given what the Giant has said about the village raid in SoD (e.g. that some of the paladins present probably Fell for their actions) it doesn't seem likely that it's something they'd be doing on a regular basis--you know, losing your paladin powers is a pretty clear hint that you screwed up?

[Citation needed]

Your claim (or at least you heavily implied) that paladin did Fall is just your personal interpretation.


Oooo! Oooo! I know this one!

The events of Start of Darkness are not a narrative being told by Redcloak, except for the crayon pages (which totally are). You are right, your friend is wrong. Everything you see happened.

However, everything that happened is not necessarily seen.

Suffice to say that the Twelve Gods are not beholden to put on the same visual display they did for Miko for every paladin who transgresses, and that all transgressions are not created equal. It is possible that some of the paladins who participated in the attack crossed the line. It is also possible that most did not. A paladin who slips up in the execution of their god-given orders does not warrant the same level of personal attention by the gods as one who executes the legal ruler of their nation on a glorified hunch. Think of Miko's Fall as being the equivalent of the CEO of your multinational company showing up in your cubicle to fire you, because you screwed up THAT much.

Of course, while Redcloak is not narrating the scene, it is shown mostly from his perspective; we don't see how many Detect Evils were used before the attack started, and we don't see how many paladins afterwards try to heal their wounds and can't, because these things are not important to Redcloak's story. Whether or not some of the paladins Fell does not bring Redcloak's family back to life. Indeed, if we transplant the scene to real life, he would think it cold comfort that some of the police officers who gunned down his family had to turn in their badge afterward (but were otherwise given no punishment by their bosses at City Hall).

Dramatically, showing no-name paladins Falling at that point in the story would confuse the narrative by making it unclear whether or not Redcloak had already earned a form of retribution against them. To be clear, he had not: Whether or not some of them lost a few class abilities does not change the fact that Redcloak suffered an injustice at their hands, one that shaped his entire adult life. That was the point of the scene. Showing them Fall or not simply was not important to Redcloak's story, so it was omitted.

Further, it would have cheapened Miko's fall to show the same thing over and over--and Miko, as a major character in the series, deserved the emotional weight that her Fall carried (or at least that I hope it carried).

I hope that clears this issue up. I hope in vain, largely, but there you have it.

(Oh, and I leave it up to the readers to form their own opinions on which paladins may have Fallen and which didn't.)

The Giant specifically didn't say whether or not any of those paladins Fall or not. (Though yes, the last sentence of his post hints at Falling was involved)
Yes, Redcloak suffered injustice, but losing paladin powers is not a real indicator for it.


But from all we know, Soon has encouraged this: In 277 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0277.html) we hear Shojo said that "Soon sent his men and women on a crusade to wipe out all who would threaten the Azure City gate, no matter how far removed geographically.", while showing two paladins killing a bunch of goblins.

And to quote the WaXPs commentary:


Most damning, though, is a decades-long history of paladins exterminating entire villages of goblins and other humanoids at the behest of their gods (a point that is seen directly in the pages of Start of Darkness).

So please: say one more time that the SoD event was a isolated event that did not happen again. [And yes, it isn't necessarily that Soon was involved that hard - but all indicators do point in the direction that Soon did order this.]

[factotum]

Curse you and your facts! :smallwink:

[Reathin]

In decending order:

1. Soon Kim
Mostly for his posthumous actions, really. While he seemed fine in life, it was his charge with the Ghost Martyrs (that scene gave me goosebumps) and his short but powerful speech with Miko. Also, I think my opinion of Girard might be reinforcing my positive attitude toward the paladin, a class I usually feel pretty neutral about (unless my city's getting attacked by a dragon or whatnot).

2. Dorukan
Granted, he didn't exactly get any screen time in the main plot, but his part in Start of Darkness was probably my favorite part of the book. Not that he really did all that well, in the end, but it was a moment so awesome, and a speech from Xykon so awesome, that it temporarily overrode my massive preference for Wizards over Sorcerers. The sensation leaks into the scene itself, hence part of why I like Dorukan. Also, it's rare to see a focus on abjuration that didn't bore me to tears (cloister is pretty cool), so there's that in his favor.

3. Serini
No strong feelings, one way or the other, but I like the fact that she wasn't so blinded by rage that she was willing to let the universe-dooming holes go unchecked, like the others were.

4. Kraggor
No strong feelings. I do feel pretty bad for him though. That was not a good way to go.

5. Lirian
Now we're into active dislike. I'm not sure I should. But the way she dealt with Xykon in Start of Darkness really struck a painful cord in me. I get that it was supposed to be merciful, and our antagonist certainly had it coming (or at least would have if I was comfortable with her strategy), but her method felt like such a deep violation of a person, and so complete, that it really put a sour taste in my mouth. That, and I can't stand druids. Not because of their tier or whatnot, but because I just find the idea of drawing power from nature incredibly annoying for some reason.

6. Gerard
I don't think we've had a single panel with Draketooth in it where I didn't have the urge to reach into the comic and punch him. Everything about this guy rubs me the wrong way, and the more I learn about his attitude and actions, the more I wish he'd been alive when Familicide was cast, just so I could see the look on his face when his vaunted "trickery and baby kidnapping" strategy was torn apart in a single action. I mean seriously, you're guarding one of the most important things in existence, and your primary defense against anyone clever enough to get to the place is a school of magic that not only can be foiled by a single 6th level spell, but by a huge pile of creatures innately. Then there's his hypocritical stance of "anyone in a position of power will abuse it" when he himself established a huge family dedicated to doing what he wanted (which was a good thing), how he wanted (not so much, see above illusion and baby kidnapping annoyances). I can't imagine a man as paranoid as him would be willing to let anyone go and do their own thing either (so much for the rebel attitude when it applies to him). Attempting to murder Soon/Soon's allies rather than just leaving them in the desert with no gate and Serini informed. Taking levels in ranger :smalltongue: . The only redeeming factor I can think of for this guy is his single minded devotion to protecting one of reality's keystones, and he was totally willing to deprive Soon's gate of an epic level defender on the off chance he'd come there personally, purely out of spite, so I'm not so sure on that point either. I recognize my bias against him is probably making him worse than he really is, but I still find myself giving him more hate than very nearly any character in the comic.

[Amphiox]

I think it is implied very strongly that the attack on Redcloak's village was part of the crusade to "protect the gate" that Soon started.

Indeed, given how almost no one knew about the Gates at all, the goblinoids who follow the Dark One and his bearer of the Crimson Mantle are actually the only named threat to the gate against which paladins might crusade "far and wide"

The irony here would be that if it were not for that crusade and the hatred and anger engendered in Redcloak for that raid on his village, Redcloak would likely not have chosen the Azure City gate at that time in the first place (he would very likely have gone after a different gate to target first).

[ChristianSt]

Yes, especially Soon's talk with Miko was really great. Doesn't change the things that he did while still living. Which from the few things we have heard where not really that great imo.



The irony here would be that if it were not for that crusade and the hatred and anger engendered in Redcloak for that raid on his village, Redcloak would likely not have chosen the Azure City gate at that time in the first place (he would very likely have gone after a different gate to target first).
To go even further - maybe without this crusade Redcloak would not even have the need to search for the gates (at least he would probably not the Bearer of the Crimson Mantle, though maybe another Bearer would have taken his spot to search for the Gates). I don't think that "being raided once in a while" increases the living quality of the Goblins.

[Reathin]

While I like Soon well enough for the stuff we saw him do in person, I have a significant amount of sympathy for all the crap Redcloak's gone through. One factor to take into account though: I don't know for certain if Soon knew about the Dark One's plans, but the idea of trying to pre-empt the high priest of a (technically) evil deity from utilizing a pantheon destroying ur-beast that predates the world they're standing on seems like a pretty sound motive. I won't make excuses for the execution of those plans (killing off the village was monstrously overkill), but despite Redcloak and the Dark One's perfectly reasonable desire to have the goblins be more than XP fodder for low level adventurers, just about everyone else in the know isn't going to want even the slightest chance the Snarl will ever get out or be used. The Dark One is trying really hard to do just that, to unknown consequences. Heck, Redcloak's even admited there's a not insignificant chance that this iteration of the world will be unmade by his actions, but at least this time the Dark One will be involved in the recreation of Stickworld v3.0

[skim172]

They were all fascinatingly humanly fallible, but none of them were angels - which, presumably, is how they got into the mess they did in the first place.

"Friends, it has fallen to us to defend all of mortal existence against this greatest of evils, a reality-destroying aberration of creation - we have the opportunity, capacity, and means to really try to do good here. Should we try to set aside our personality differences, our individual feuds, and bad blood, in order to, I dunno, actually try to do something about this?"

"Nah. I instead propose we give in to backbiting, bickering, and petty hatred, eventually going our separate ways to deal with this thing that threatens every life in the universe entirely on our own, thereby greatly weakening our collective ability to coordinate and construct an enduring defense against the end of the universe. Also, let's keep these gates such a secret so that when a threat truly arises, no one but us - mortal beings who will inevitably pass away while the Snarl will last forever - will actually know about it. And as our primary - and really, only - defensive strategy, let us each build up a personality cult centered on ourselves, so our defenses will over-rely on our own strengths - which have their limits - and will surely reflect our weaknesses - which are numerous. Like, no backups or redundancies or anything built into our defenses, at all."

"Sigh. If only there was another way."

Serious lack of perspective on all their parts. So far, I respect Serini the most - incidentally, she's the one party member we've seen the least of. But she did come up with at least one idea that didn't bring the world closer to Doomsday ("hey guys! let's NOT kill each other"), so she at least has the same sense of responsibility, levelheadedness, and groundedness that you'd hope for in a teenager.

Perhaps that's why she stuffed her dungeon with giant monsters. She learned her lesson - people can be really stupid about their own emotional issues, even if the world is literally at stake, so don't let anything self-aware get near the damn thing. Hopefully, she also did something like encase the gate in a block of molten titanium or something.

[DanaK]

I'd definitely say Soon is my favorite, probably because I'm an idealist, and have a soft spot for paladins. Plus he's a total BAMF. I cheer every time I reread the Ghost-Martyrs scene.