Absolute Defense Build?

[Nettlekid]

Is there a list compiled anywhere of every different type of offensive attack that a PC could be subjected to? Beyond the simple damage and energy, beyond petrification and polymorphing, beyond death effects, including the myriad other Save or Die spells out there. Because I think it might be entertaining to design a build that is absolutely indestructible, with something to counter each and every one. I know the Ikea Tarrasque/Emerald Legion ventures toward this, but I'm hoping that it could be accomplished with judicious use of spells as opposed to templates and the like. I think it would be more amusing not to be outright immune to everything, but simply to have a trick and counter prepared for an opponent's every potential offense. The icing on the cake would be to have some feature (beyond just roleplaying, though that might work) to be generally rude and frustrating to a foe, encouraging the foe to target this untouchable character.

But first of course, each type of potential offense needs to be accounted for and negated. Is there a good list of both well-known and obscure attack types?

[Flickerdart]

Persisted Timeless Body, then do wheelies in lava.

[Story]

But first of course, each type of potential offense needs to be accounted for and negated. Is there a good list of both well-known and obscure attack types?

The Emerald Legion is probably the best reference you'll find. Other threads that come to mind are the Stuffy Doll challenge, and the various Fighter vs Wizard challenges (look for the ones that involve the Fighter true mind switching into an epic monster with a permanent AMF and stuff like that).

The thing though is that with enough cheese, virtually anything is possible. But templates are a lot harder to bypass than spells.

[(Un)Inspired]

Timeless body is a psion power that makes you pretty invincible. Persist it and your got your invulnerable dude.

Edit: oof savagely swordsaged.

[Story]

Timeless body is a psion power that makes you pretty invincible. Persist it and your got your invulnerable dude.


Still wouldn't help you against dispelling or an AMF.

Or against anything that is neither an attack nor power.

[(Un)Inspired]

You're right. It kinda a plan for moderate invincibility.

Nothing crazy, just a modest bit of invulnerability.

[Nettlekid]

The Emerald Legion is probably the best reference you'll find. Other threads that come to mind are the Stuffy Doll challenge, and the various Fighter vs Wizard challenges (look for the ones that involve the Fighter true mind switching into an epic monster with a permanent AMF and stuff like that).

The thing though is that with enough cheese, virtually anything is possible. But templates are a lot harder to bypass than spells.

I'm looking at Emerald Legion already, but I hadn't heard of Stuffy Doll. I'm not sure how to reverse engineer it into something playable, and also thus far it's not been unbeatable it seems?


Persisted Timeless Body, then do wheelies in lava.


Timeless body is a psion power that makes you pretty invincible. Persist it and your got your invulnerable dude.

Edit: oof savagely swordsaged.

Yes, yes, I know that already. It's too lacking in style, though. Same reason I don't want to use a conglomeration of Half-This-and-That templates, for style. Although a simple invulnerable character might be interesting in some settings, I'm trying to have a defense-focused character who can say "Oh, you're using X? I have my anti-X button right here" rather than a character who says "You're using X? Try X, Y, and Z together, it is of no use!" Also I don't like that Timeless Body makes you immune to beneficial effects.

EDIT: ON THAT NOTE I do not want to be told about True Mind Switching into an Ice Assassin of my own Aleax or something like that. That's the easy way, no fun.

EDIT 2: You know, off the top of my head, how many potential offenses (spells, warriors, various monster abilities) would be able to breach a combination of Wall of Force/Otiluke's Resilient Sphere and Dimensional Lock/Anticipate Teleportation, or that general combo of "Can't cross this line, also can't teleport in"? The former blocks line of effect, which pretty much every form of offense requires, and the latter subverts any attempt to bypass the former. Once you find a defense for the few things that can take down Wall of Force, what can get you?

[Story]

I'm looking at Emerald Legion already, but I hadn't heard of Stuffy Doll. I'm not sure how to reverse engineer it into something playable, and also thus far it's not been unbeatable it seems?


The idea behind the doll suggestion was to see the kind of attacks people have come up with. Some of them are quite impressive.

[Story]

EDIT 2: You know, off the top of my head, how many potential offenses (spells, warriors, various monster abilities) would be able to breach a combination of Wall of Force/Otiluke's Resilient Sphere and Dimensional Lock/Anticipate Teleportation, or that general combo of "Can't cross this line, also can't teleport in"? The former blocks line of effect, which pretty much every form of offense requires, and the latter subverts any attempt to bypass the former. Once you find a defense for the few things that can take down Wall of Force, what can get you?

* Anything that simply goes over or under the wall
* Anything that dispells, destroys, or suppresses the wall
* Escape Artist check of 120
* Wish
* Shadow Jaunt, debatable (requires LoE, but it's not clear to me whether Wall of Force actually blocks LoE)
* block all areas within 100 feet and then Dimension Door into a wall (debatable)

[Nettlekid]

* Anything that simply goes over or under the wall
* Anything that dispells, destroys, or suppresses the wall
* Escape Artist check of 120
* Wish
* Shadow Jaunt, debatable (requires LoE, but it's not clear to me whether Wall of Force actually blocks LoE)
* block all areas within 100 feet and then Dimension Door into a wall (debatable)

Wall of Force can't be dispelled (though Otiluke's Resilient Sphere can be). It's true that Disintegrate and variants destroy it, so those need to be taken care of. I don't know that anything is able to suppress a Wall of Force.

It will take a minute or so to pass through a "tight space," so you have a minute of prep time to deal with the Escape Artist user. You're a caster. No worries.

Fair enough, Wish can do pretty much anything. Can you make a Wish that other Wishes can't interfere with you?

Wall of Force undoubtedly blocks LoE. I don't think it blocks LoS, though, if that's an issue. Anticipate Teleportation works on all Teleportation spells and effects, and the Shadow X line is a [Teleportation] effect.

I don't know what you're saying with that last one. Like purposely D.Door into a wall and and get shunted into the defender's area? I still think that Dimensional Lock would prevent that from happening, and would be excluded from possible mishap ending locations.

[Slipperychicken]

With spells?

You could do that twice-betrayer thing where you take Initiate of Mystra and hide inside of an AMF while keeping every defense buff active at once, being constantly Astral Projected (so you're not dead even if you die), and also having Craft Contingent True Rez ready in case something somehow kills you.

Also, you might be able to true mind switch into an animated object made of Riverine. Being made of forcewall might not make you 100% invincible, but it brings you pretty close (only a handful of spells can destroy it), and could help in combination with other techniques.

[Nettlekid]

With spells?

You could do that twice-betrayer thing where you take Initiate of Mystra and hide inside of an AMF while keeping every defense buff active at once, being constantly Astral Projected (so you're not dead even if you die), and also having Craft Contingent True Rez ready in case something somehow kills you.

Also, you might be able to true mind switch into an animated object made of Riverine. Being made of forcewall might not make you 100% invincible, but it brings you pretty close (only a handful of spells can destroy it), and could help in combination with other techniques.

Okay, once again, like I said in the original post, I don't want to be immune to everything ever all the time. I want to be able to counter and render ineffective any opponent's every technique that they want to use against me, and do so when they try it. To shut down each attack as opposed to preempt it. Basically being completely reactionary (but hopefully with immediate actions and the like.)

[Slipperychicken]

Okay, once again, like I said in the original post, I don't want to be immune to everything ever all the time. I want to be able to counter and render ineffective any opponent's every technique that they want to use against me, and do so when they try it. To shut down each attack as opposed to preempt it. Basically being completely reactionary (but hopefully with immediate actions and the like.)

Craft Contingent Spells might be of interest.

Wings of Cover (Sorcerer 2, Races of the Dragon) is an immediate action everything-proof shield.

Friendly Fire (Sorc/Wiz 4, Druid 4, Exemplars of Evil) counters basically any ranged attack. It can be cast as either round/level or as an instantaneous immediate action.

A ring of counterspells (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/rings.htm#counterspells) can help you get out of Greater Dispel Magic.

Insane Defiance (feat. Elder Evils pg 13) kind of fits the bill, as an immediate action which lets you redirect mind-affecting effects for the low, low price of 1 Wisdom damage. Not quite optimal, but still cool in my opinion.

[Bugworlds]

With a party member we were thinking about making an over-armored fighter... Until we discovered the iconic piece to this character wasn't allowed within normal rules. After that we had to work with the DM instead of springing them into the game and claiming RAW.

Get the thickest armour possible, put spikes on it, and the icing on the cake was two tower shields. This normally isn't allowed but with some homebrewed prerequ's for using two tower shields (I think we decided on a required strength, two-weapon fighting, improved shield bash... probably something else). The AC bonus of readying the two shields wasn't so great but a turtling manoeuvre was wonderful. With shoulder/back mounting points the shields could be latched on and the character would drop prone. Big boots to cover one end and a big helmet to cover the other.

Run into a crowd of agro'd low level enemies, drop down, wait for them to tire of smacking the metal.

For a less questionable and more useful character, I'm thinking a lot of magic armour and items are needed. I believe monks have some nice immunities in their higher levels (can't say I remember high-level monk details well right now). If you were to become a lich there's some great ways of coming back if you do die. Automatic resurrection, via lich or otherwise, would be a good fall back.

[Captnq]

Start with what can happen to you:


Blunt Force Trauma, Like falling damage and crushing.
Critical hits (including sneak attacks)
Death from massive damage
Death spells and effects
Immune to damage from negative energy attacks, including the cause wounds spells.
Automatically make your save on any 'save or die' effect.
immune to the conditions of blindness, confusion, cowering, dazed, dazzled, deafness, entangling, exhaustion, fascination, fatigue, fear, feeblemind, frightened, insanity, nausea, panic, paralyzation, petrifaction, shaken, sickened, slow, staggered, and stunning.
Immune to disease, poison, curses, Mind-Affecting spells
No need to eat, breath, sleep.
No longer aging.
Immune to level drain.
Immune to ability drain/damage
Immune to ability penalties.
Immune to Grapple
Immune to terrain difficulties.
Immune to any spell that you can resist with SR.
Immune to criticals
Immune to sneak attacks.
Immune to antimagic
Immune to scrying
Immune to detection
Immune to Ranged Attacks
Immune to Dispell Magic
Immune to illusion
Immune to bull rush/overrun/trip/disarm
Immune to the following types of damage: Acid/City/Cold/Dehydration/Electrical/Evil/Fire/Force/Nonlethal/Sonic/Vile
Immune to rust
Immune to Coup De Grace
Immune to teleportation
Immune to Soul Stealing
Immune to Being Shrunk

That's all I can think off off the top of my head.

Get immune to that first.

[Flickerdart]

There are a couple of effects (such as love's pain) against which there is no defense. They tend to be damage-type effects, so consider a way to immediately heal yourself. Although things like a supernatural holy word (no save or SR, can't be countered) are hard to tackle - you would have to be able to have an arbitrarily high number of HD, be immune to the Dead condition, or specifically be immune to that spell.

[ben-zayb]

Dominant Ideal Substitute Power Ardent: grab synchronicity, link it, twin it, abuse it

[Kraken]

be immune to the Dead condition

Ah, so veil of undeath from the Spell Compendium then. Huzzah for things that slip through the errata process!:smallbiggrin:

[docnessuno]

The Twice betrayer of Shar (http://community.wizards.com/forum/previous-editions-character-optimization/threads/1007491), even if slightly outdated, is probably the best tought exercise on Absolute Defense you can find (not counting infinity +1 builds like Pun-Pun).

[Piggy Knowles]

This never got far enough to actually be comprehensive, but here's a similar topic I started a while back: Comprehensive List of Threats (or, 100 Ways to Die) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=314755)