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View Full Version : I like to be the Master of the Dungeon. (Because It's much to hard to play.)



D20ragon
2014-03-17, 07:04 AM
It is infinitely easier for me to Dm or Gm or Lm or ST or whatevs then to make a character and play in said games.
Honk if you agree.
Actually, you could just say you agree, and explain why. That works too.



With a title like that, I was expecting some sort of jaunty, irreverent song. Something along the lines of:

Oh, I have to be the Master of the Dungeon
Because it's too much like hard work to play
And if the players ever do defy me
I just stop and send them all away.

They have all these sheets and feats and splatbooks
Whereas I just need the good old DMG
I might stretch to a Monster Manual or Two
But I really have to draw the line at three

They come to me with talk of tiers and balance
If I don't understand I tell them no
And if I hear complaints 'bout DM fiat
I just close my books and turn to go

Oh, I have to be the Master of the Dungeon...

etc.

ComatosePhoenix
2014-03-17, 04:21 PM
Honk because I have to admit to a bit of a god complex watching people try to navigate a world that I crafted/stole.

Cikomyr
2014-03-17, 04:41 PM
I like to GM, but I like to play as well.

you have to learn to follow before you learn to lead. And you have to learn to lead to follow properly.


Same thing with being a GM/Player. It's nice to remember yourself the perspective of the other guys.

Aedilred
2014-03-17, 05:26 PM
With a title like that, I was expecting some sort of jaunty, irreverent song. Something along the lines of:

Oh, I have to be the Master of the Dungeon
Because it's too much like hard work to play
And if the players ever do defy me
I just stop and send them all away.

They have all these sheets and feats and splatbooks
Whereas I just need the good old DMG
I might stretch to a Monster Manual or Two
But I really have to draw the line at three

They come to me with talk of tiers and balance
If I don't understand I tell them no
And if I hear complaints 'bout DM fiat
I just close my books and turn to go

Oh, I have to be the Master of the Dungeon...

etc.

D20ragon
2014-03-17, 05:28 PM
Well now, that's going in the OP. :smallbiggrin:

Piedmon_Sama
2014-03-17, 05:29 PM
If I'm a bad player it's because I don't get to play enough. I usually DM for our group, so on the rare occasion I get to play, I play hard.

"What's that!? Who's in that house!? I follow him! I take 10 and scale a tower to keep watching! I break into his house! What's there!? Nothing? There can't be nothing! I get out my crowbar and go to work on the floorboards!"

"Hah hah this is a trap! It's obvious! I take out the 10 lb. iron ball from my pack and roll it down the floor! .....I take out my 20 lb. iron ball and roll it down the floor! I step very carefully down the room, only touching the space within the path of the ball, then kick the first ball crosswise to the left facing the entrance and the other to the right. I then trace the path of the lesser and give it a hard roll along the wall; I then retrace my steps back to the back, then follow the path of the second ball..... no, I don't care how long this takes! I've got rations for 30 days and a barrel of water on my mule!"

etc

Slipperychicken
2014-03-17, 06:42 PM
no, I don't care how long this takes! I've got rations for 30 days and a barrel of water on my mule!"


And this is why we have hourly wandering monster rolls inside dungeons. To keep people from screwing around like that :smallbiggrin:


On a related note, I once was so paranoid that my GM to flat-out told me there weren't any traps in the hallway, and I wasn't even inside the dungeon yet. My group still jokes about my obsession with 10ft poles.

Amidus Drexel
2014-03-17, 07:03 PM
I like to DM most of the time. Sometimes it's a bit of a hassle (especially with a new system or new players), but I find it to be generally more rewarding than just being a player.

Plus, I tend to get frustrated when other people DM if they're not roughly on the same level as me with regards to leniency and skill at improvising (things I consider important to DMing). >.>

mephnick
2014-03-17, 09:33 PM
I'm so used to DMing I almost can't play any more. I love creating the problems and seeing how people will react to them.

On the other hand, I haven't had a good DM in a long time, so maybe I'd enjoy playing more if I wasn't the only competent one around.

Though maybe others would be more competent if I didn't DM all the time. :smallfrown:

Stoneback
2014-03-17, 11:02 PM
My group still jokes about my obsession with 10ft poles.

Sounds like my wife.

Anyway, I wish I could just play. But I always always DM.

ElenionAncalima
2014-03-18, 08:46 AM
I enjoy both. Also, I think that it is good for a GM to remember what its like to play...and its good for a player to have experience the GM's seat.

Madeiner
2014-03-18, 09:12 AM
I played for about a year and then DMed for the next 8.
I tried to play at some tournaments or oneshot adventures; never once i liked the game. I too much like to craft a world for others to interact with, and to tell a nice story and even show a few moral dilemmas or things like that.

Maybe its also because i haven't had a good DM in those tournaments, but i didn't like it one bit, so i'm sticking to DMing which is greatly rewarding for me.

However, the few times i played, i noticed how some things that look cool to me when i DM, i actually don't like when i play, so i learned to tone them down.
I think playing helps understanding what is best and likeable for the other side of the table.

Droark
2014-03-18, 01:32 PM
I agree, and in a sense I believe I run the game better than I play it because I enjoy being engaged the entire session. I find the game much more fun and enjoyable when I craft the secrets for the players to find. It's the pride I have in my players when they overcome the odds when, in all honesty, the dice should have marked their doom sessions ago. I don't feel that when I play the game. If anything my behavior becomes erratic while I develop an odd feeling of anxiety.

A hero's life has its ups and downs, as they topple kings and watch their loved ones slaughtered before them, but as the puppet-master bending and crafting these heroes into who they are when they finally defeat the Mad Wizard or are dashed against the rocks trying, I find that to be truly fun.

That isn't to say it's not nice to see things from a player's perspective every once in a while. It's just when I do I find myself envious of the resident puppet-master.

Aedilred
2014-03-18, 01:55 PM
I find that when I play I'm more invested in my character, and in the success of the party, and the mission at hand.

When I'm the GM, on the other hand, I'm more invested in the setting.

It's really a completely different experience, and I'd be hard-pressed to say which I prefer. They stimulate different parts of my brain: as a player I find the experience more immersive and exciting, whereas as a GM I get really absorbed in the creativity of it without actually ever getting properly sucked into the grounds-level of the world.

To explain it on a fairly basic level, I guess: it's great fun to be able to create as many fun NPCs as you like, exploring all sorts of options, but they're all inherently disposable and you don't get the sense of satisfaction you do from developing a single character over the course of a campaign.

I've also found that, on average, GMing is much more effort, certainly away from the table. I've GMed one lazy campaign where I made a lot of it up on the fly and that was ok, but I still spent more time in prep work than the players did. And that's right at the bottom end of the scale; I've run PbPs that, had they been part-time jobs, I'd have earned a healthy income from.

LogosDragon
2014-03-18, 05:39 PM
Aside from during downtime on one of my only two gaming breaks in the past coming on three years, in which I played in a solo one-shot involving Otyughs, I've done nothing but DM within said almost-three-year span. (And given that totaled between my two groups I run four sessions a week, only two breaks in three years wouldn't be shabby at all)

I just love DMing. You can play with the same people, often playing the same or similar characters unless they're particularly adventurous, and they can still surprise you in ways you never thought possible.

I love crafting worlds, I love watching the PCs' influence in that setting start small and branch out, I love them catching me off guard and I love having to react to their newest bursts of genius or emotion.

I feel accomplished when they become attached to an NPC that I intended to be likable and when they mutter and get legitimately sad, scared, or angry in response to my villains' demeanor and/or actions. And it serves for a nice laugh when either of those intentions get flipped around in my face.

I don't think I'll honk my horn, though. DMing is always rewarding for me, but it's never easy. Playing a character was much simpler and I found myself with way too much time to think in fights. Admittedly, since it was a solo game, I found myself talking to myself in-character a lot out of boredom.

So maybe that's one weakness I'd have with playing as a character... I always want to be crafting something interesting with my words.

SimonMoon6
2014-03-18, 05:59 PM
I like to be the GM because I like being able to ensure that the rules work the way they should (for various definitions of the word "should").

Sometimes as a player, I can get a bit irked when I run into a "that's not how I'd rule things" situation (though I try to roll with it).

But then I also feel like you're not really playing the game if you're not a player.

Airk
2014-03-18, 09:32 PM
I enjoy both. I think doing each makes you better at the other.

Playing has the advantage of being less "work" however. (Read: Prep)

BrokenChord
2014-03-18, 10:38 PM
I enjoy both. I think doing each makes you better at the other.

Playing has the advantage of being less "work" however. (Read: Prep)

Which is why people like me exist. Pre-gen'd random NPC stat sheets and improv to the rescue!

The Oni
2014-03-20, 02:03 PM
Now imagining a game where everyone present is the dungeon master.

One PC is a hero renowned for his ability to clear dungeons in record time. Another is a kinky cleric of Zon-Kuthon who's into S&M, so he owns a dungeon and is "The Master." Another is in fact an architect who used to build prisons for a King.

neonchameleon
2014-03-20, 02:37 PM
Now imagining a game where everyone present is the dungeon master.

That would be a Fiasco.

Ravian
2014-03-20, 03:32 PM
That would be a Fiasco.

I see what you did there :smallwink:


I grew up the usual dungeon master for my games, and while I did the occasional playing and others in my group now do a bit more of DMing, it's still what I'm used to.

Of course in college there tends to be a lot more games being run in the area, so I've had to transition to playing more. It's fun, but I always feel like I observe things a little too hard, which at best leads to a more back-seat role to the other players while at worst leads to meta-gaming (which usually doesn't even work because I'm not as good at guessing what's going to happen as I think I am)

Altair_the_Vexed
2014-03-21, 04:27 AM
I GM all the games I'm involved in.

I'd love to play, but I seem to have set a standard that others in the group think they can't match. I think they're wrong: my standards aren't that high, and some of them will be great GMs - but no-one ever seems to volunteer...

The Oni
2014-03-21, 09:11 AM
I GM all the games I'm involved in.

I'd love to play, but I seem to have set a standard that others in the group think they can't match. I think they're wrong: my standards aren't that high, and some of them will be great GMs - but no-one ever seems to volunteer...

So tell 'em you're not gonna GM. Or offer to co-GM while running a character of your own; they call the shots and you provide rules-support as needed.

CarpeGuitarrem
2014-03-21, 09:42 AM
It's an exhilarating thing to stay on top of the action in a session, directing events just so, but it also requires me to keep track of a lot. So I do like varying it up as a player, especially because being a GM doesn't let me drill very much into the game.

Altair_the_Vexed
2014-03-21, 10:24 AM
So tell 'em you're not gonna GM. Or offer to co-GM while running a character of your own; they call the shots and you provide rules-support as needed.

Tried it. If I don't run games, there are no games - or rather, there were only a couple of sessions during the year and half or so when I wasn't running games.

Also, I'm not a rules expert. Other people in the group are better at that than I am.

The Oni
2014-03-21, 02:43 PM
You could try and recruit a GM from your local game shop. Me and my friends found ours at Pathfinder Society, as it happens, and now we play every week.

neonchameleon
2014-03-21, 05:17 PM
Tried it. If I don't run games, there are no games - or rather, there were only a couple of sessions during the year and half or so when I wasn't running games.

Also, I'm not a rules expert. Other people in the group are better at that than I am.

Try a GMless game like Fiasco (or anything else by Jason Morningstar)? Or joining another group?

Airk
2014-03-21, 11:21 PM
Which is why people like me exist. Pre-gen'd random NPC stat sheets and improv to the rescue!

That's still more work than playing. ;)

BrokenChord
2014-03-21, 11:33 PM
That's still more work than playing. ;)

... It's so cute how wrong you are. See, good DMs put a lot more work in than their players.

My players spend more time looking over their own sheets and planning stuff between sessions than I do prepping. And I'm sure they're working at least twice as hard as me to play intelligently during games.

... I rest my case. Telling you about all my horribad DMing fails that somehow haven't convinced my players that I'm not, in fact, the best DM ever won't serve any purpose.

Mastikator
2014-03-22, 12:18 AM
It's easier to DM than it is to play
sculpting an encounter like it's made out of clay
you may think of me bonkers
because I toot the honkers
but DMing is simply my way

Mr Beer
2014-03-22, 12:43 AM
I like GM-ing more than playing but it's way more effort.

Icewraith
2014-03-31, 06:43 PM
Far, far easier to play than to GM well.

You have access to a massive number of opponents with different abilities, and you have to deal with your players' ever increasing arsenal of abilities, and try to get a story to come out of the whole thing.

If you're playing, you mostly react to the dm, learn your own character's abilities, and roll attacks/defenses as the case may be. Your roleplay is based on what your character wants instead of what BBEG, inattentive gate guard #12, omnicidal goblin shaman, or be-tentacled far realm horror want (depending on the situtation).

D20ragon
2014-03-31, 06:46 PM
Huh. That stuff always comes naturally to me.
But honestly, I have a much easier and better time Gming then playing.

drack
2014-03-31, 08:52 PM
I think I prefer playing, but I've GMed for the last few years and after that I've become too accustomed to knowing and controlling anything. To watching my players squirm and try to fumble their way through my gritty scenarios. Now returning to being a simple epic gestalt evil overlord with a dungeon of evil critters ready to kill anything that attacks me, I mean it is so different from GMing that it throws me off. :smalltongue:

But really. I've always done battlefield control and minnionmancy, so that's why I kinda knew how to GM, but it can be tricky breaking the habit of trying to loose, or of knowing everything. I also tend to expect long complete answers from GMs.

Anachronity
2014-03-31, 09:29 PM
I prefer being the player over being the DM, at least hypothetically. My top 3 favorite base classes aren't core, and even though they're all vastly inferior to the wizard (they are Binder, Marshal, and Warlock, respectively) the DM still smites them out of distrust for non-core base classes. Naturally they still let the Wizard pick spells from wherever he wants...

I'm also more knowledgeable about the rules than any GM I've ever played with (outside of things like one-shot scenarios at the game store), so I usually end up GMing. Honestly the only thing I enjoy about DMing is making interesting monsters by adding templates or class levels, or just making my own monsters.

drack
2014-03-31, 09:34 PM
I'm not distrustful fo the warlock as a warlock (unless it summons), I'm distrustful of the warlock and how it interacts with the wizard, expecially with regards to the old sacrifice a spell of level X or X levels of spells/day for Y :smalltongue: the others I don't mistrust.

Amphetryon
2014-04-02, 12:44 PM
Huh. That stuff always comes naturally to me.
But honestly, I have a much easier and better time Gming then playing.

Out of curiosity, why do you find this to be so?

D20ragon
2014-04-02, 04:00 PM
I am a terrible optimizer, so I am often behind the grade. But that doesn't really matter.
When you're the Dm, you can Improvise, and Fudge rolls to make stuff more fun. (I never fudge in my favor, for future reference. I only do it to make things more dramatic, or realistic.)
You can just focus on the game, instead of keeping your character alive.
I don't know. It just comes naturally to me, I guess.

BrokenChord
2014-04-02, 06:06 PM
DMing is easier than playing for me, too... But I still think you're crazy, D20ragon. :smallbiggrin:

drack
2014-04-02, 06:09 PM
Oh, you misunderstand. His sanity (or lack thereof) was never in question.

D20ragon
2014-04-02, 08:24 PM
Am I well known enough that I'm "That guy who runs all those games?" :smallconfused:
I was unaware.
"Don't go near him, he might offer to run your game. Flee!"

Only when all other hope is lost do they journey to my lair, lay forth their plea, and tempt me into action with a shiny new plot hook, or setting.
(I accept bribes, as well. Teh pretty gems cut like dice are best.)

Nyan
2014-04-02, 08:33 PM
Speaking of gm'ing. D20ragon, you my good sir need to clean your inbox and send me another pm. You wanted to run my campain right? I've been trying to contact you and im sorry that i had to resort to post an unrelated message in this thread.

GoblinGilmartin
2014-04-03, 07:10 AM
I DM because otherwise I would have never gotten into RPGs. I started by GMPCing in a game with me and one friend. I've actually gotten little experience playing, and the last time I did play, I got kicked out for not fitting in (the "experienced players" spent whole minutes before going into every room, seemed more interested in their own characters than anyone else, too much time spent joking.). Plus I get bored with dungeoncrawls, and I don't like having to "wait my turn" for the GM to interact with me.