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The Insanity
2014-03-17, 10:05 AM
The champion Jinx (http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Jinx/Background) from League of Legends is crazy, or at least that's what she herself is saying, and she's definitely acting crazy. But is she really? And what kind of crazy - psychopath killer crazy, or total anarchist crazy? What do you think?
For people who don't know the character because they don't play LoL or were never interested in this champion can learn everything that's important from the wiki page that I linked above. It has her backgound, in-game quotes, abilities and some trivia.

Tengu_temp
2014-03-17, 10:23 AM
First paragraph and already CE. Or maybe one of those CN characters who use their alignment as an excuse to do whatever they want without technically qualifying as evil, but yeah, they're also CE.

Eldest
2014-03-17, 10:23 AM
The only reason, I suspect, we don't see her hurting people in any of the media is because of the kid-friendly nature of the game. CE. Not due to insanity: insanity doesn't have any weight on the alignment chart. Because she constantly fights against and provokes authority and does whatever she wants. Most of which causes a lot of harm for others.

A Tad Insane
2014-03-17, 10:48 AM
Wanton destruction for wanton destruction's sake? Chaotic evil. He'll, if she wasn't clever enough to escape from someone with two gapclosers, I would peg her chaotic stupid

Honest Tiefling
2014-03-17, 11:10 AM
First paragraph and already CE. Or maybe one of those CN characters who use their alignment as an excuse to do whatever they want without technically qualifying as evil, but yeah, they're also CE.

I'd call using CN to do what you want more Chaotic Stupid then Chaotic Neutral. The name of people who can actually RP the alignment properly.

And considering that she knows to stay out of the law's reach really well doesn't seem to imply insanity in the slightest. Maybe I skimmed it too much, but I can't find what part calls her insane, really.

So another one for the CE pile.

The Oni
2014-03-17, 11:16 AM
While I feel like some people are reluctant to put her firmly in the 'CE' category because she's cute, there's really no way around it. Even if she doesn't shoot *at* innocent bystanders, she clearly blows up people's houses, presumably while they're in them, for no other reason than her personal lulz. CE through and through.

The Insanity
2014-03-17, 11:16 AM
And considering that she knows to stay out of the law's reach really well doesn't seem to imply insanity in the slightest. Maybe I skimmed it too much, but I can't find what part calls her insane, really.
Not insane. Crazy. She says it herself. Doesn't have to actually be true, though.
Would you say that Joker is crazy?


While I feel like some people are reluctant to put her firmly in the 'CE' category because she's cute
She's not tho. :smallconfused: Some people choose to interpret her like that in fan works like comics or fan art, but that's just headcanons. There's not enough details in lore or game to make it likely.
BTW, there's an offical animated music video with her, it might give some more insight to her psyche. Get Jinxed (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nlJuwO0GDs).
I can totally see the arguments for CE and her quotes do indicate that she probably has no compunctions about killing people, but OTOH nowhere does it actually say that she murders anyone and as we can see in the video Piltover is largely operated by robots. The lore talks about crime, mayhem and panic, but doesn't mention murder. There's also the tidbit that officers started really hunting her after her crimes escalated. I don't think they would wait for that if she was a murderer. Another thing, her in-game jokes can potentially indicate that she knows wrong from right and maybe has some minimal amounts of conscience in her.
It really kinda looks like her potential reputation as a killer is more a result of self-propagated rumors than actual facts. I'm not arguing that wanton destruction isn't a sign of Evil, though.

Honest Tiefling
2014-03-17, 12:19 PM
The Joker is crazy because his perception of the world is...Off in most cases. Jinx just seems to like shooting things, regardless of how it affects things. Again, no sign of insanity, just no care for others.

Azreal
2014-03-17, 12:25 PM
I can totally see the arguments for CE and her quotes do indicate that she probably has no compunctions about killing people, but OTOH nowhere does it actually say that she murders anyone and as we can see in the video Piltover is largely operated by robots. The lore talks about crime, mayhem and panic, but doesn't mention murder. There's also the tidbit that officers started really hunting her after her crimes escalated. I don't think they would wait for that if she was a murderer. Another thing, her in-game jokes can potentially indicate that she knows wrong from right and maybe has some minimal amounts of conscience in her.
It really kinda looks like her potential reputation as a killer is more a result of self-propagated rumors than actual facts. I'm not arguing that wanton destruction isn't a sign of Evil, though.

Jinx is for sure CE:
"Rules are made to be broken... like buildings! Or people!"
"Stay still! I'm trying to shoot you!"
"I'll give you to the count of - time's up!"
"Duck! Hehe, just kidding, that won't help."
"Gotta' die sometime!"
"Smile! It's called gun play."
"Any last words? Ha! No, just die."
"Seriously, screaming helps... not at all."
"No need to be scared - or alive."
"You're my favorite waste of bullets."
"I don't even think once about blowing stuff up!"
"Guns don't kill people. I mean, until you shoot them. Then they kill everything!"
"I'll be right back! No one die screaming without me!"


Slight arguments for her having a conscience. (Fishbones is the rocket launcher, her machine gun is Powpow)
"Hey Fishbones, should we blow something up? 'You might inconvenience people and hurt their feelings.' You're the worst weapon ever!"

"Fishbones, you know what we oughta' do? 'Do the laundry, wash dishes and pay some bills.' Stupid dumb rocket launcher."

"Hey Fishbones, think we can wreak havoc forever? 'No, you should buy a home and save for retirement.' You know I can replace you, right?"
These were obviously meant to be jokes on her part though, so I really don't give them any real credit.

The Insanity
2014-03-17, 12:36 PM
Again, no sign of insanity, just no care for others.
I didn't say she is insane.
BTW, she's inspired by the Joker.


Jinx is for sure CE
I know her quotes, but note that's its things she says herself, which doesn't have to be serious or factual, and it's in the context of League matches, where no one actually dies.

Just to Browse
2014-03-17, 12:59 PM
I would be in the CN camp, but her Wanted poster accuses her of murder twice, which is what really sells me on the evil thing.

Also the aggravated jaywalking. What kind of monster would stoop so low!

Eldest
2014-03-17, 01:17 PM
I didn't say she is insane.
BTW, she's inspired by the Joker.


I know her quotes, but note that's its things she says herself, which doesn't have to be serious or factual, and it's in the context of League matches, where no one actually dies.

So then Draven's CN! Awesome! :smallbiggrin:

The Insanity
2014-03-17, 01:25 PM
I would be in the CN camp, but her Wanted poster accuses her of murder twice, which is what really sells me on the evil thing.

Also the aggravated jaywalking. What kind of monster would stoop so low!
You didn't read the whole poster, didn't you? :smallamused: (hint: she's wanted "for forging of official wanted posters")


So then Draven's CN! Awesome! :smallbiggrin:
No, Draven's lore is pretty clear he kills and enjoys it.

Azreal
2014-03-17, 01:25 PM
I would also say that Jinx is heavily based on Harley as well.

The Insanity
2014-03-17, 01:38 PM
Well, wouldn't Joker by kinda like Harley if he was female? Not the same, obviously, but similar.

Mando Knight
2014-03-17, 01:49 PM
But is she really? And what kind of crazy - psychopath killer crazy, or total anarchist crazy?

If "Jinx lives to wreak havoc without a thought for consequence, leaving a trail of mayhem and panic in her wake. A manic and impulsive criminal..." doesn't mean "Jinx is a textbook case of psychopathic CE" I'm not sure what is.

Also, "Inspired by the Joker" is a pretty strong indicator of CE.

imaloony
2014-03-17, 01:58 PM
Also, "Inspired by the Joker" is a pretty strong indicator of CE.

Pretty much what I was going to say.

Generally speaking, Chaotic Neutral people are prone to do good or evil acts as long as it benefits them in some way. I like to think of it as the "Greedy" alignment to simplify it a bit.
Chaotic Evil people like to spread chaos through crime and evil acts. Jinx doesn't do good, she's just a horrible person.

Just to Browse
2014-03-17, 02:57 PM
You didn't read the whole poster, didn't you? :smallamused: (hint: she's wanted "for forging of official wanted posters")No, that one was a real poster.

Kerpow. Conjecture for conjecture!

starwoof
2014-03-17, 03:35 PM
I wouldn't like playing Jinx so much if she wasn't a psychopathic killer. Everything she says and does leads me to believe that she is chaotic evil.

Her and :belkar: would get along famously.

Azreal
2014-03-17, 03:46 PM
In what way isn't Jinx CE. Just give us a real rationale other then everything about her that points to her being CE means the opposite.

The Insanity
2014-03-17, 04:18 PM
In what way isn't Jinx CE.
Possibly in the ways I said.


Just give us a real rationale other then everything about her that points to her being CE means the opposite.
I'm just playing a devil's advocate. I actually think she's CE, but can also see the other possibility. That's why the thread asks "CE or CN", not states "Jinx is CN".
And I'm not saying everything about her means the opposite. I'm just saying it doesn't have to mean she's clearly CE.

starwoof
2014-03-17, 04:28 PM
She is clearly chaotic evil. I can't see any argument otherwise when the facts are right there. She kills people and destroys things for fun. Not because she needs to, but because she likes to.

Killing for fun is evil.

Eldest
2014-03-17, 04:33 PM
Possibly in the ways I said.


I'm just playing a devil's advocate. I actually think she's CE, but can also see the other possibility. That's why the thread asks "CE or CN", not states "Jinx is CN".
And I'm not saying everything about her means the opposite. I'm just saying it doesn't have to mean she's clearly CE.

My point with the Draven thing was that if you ignore all the evidence then yes, you can say they are a different alignment. Since you're pretty much the only person saying she isn't CE, and you don't even believe that, I'm not seeing where another interpretation can be.

The Insanity
2014-03-17, 04:54 PM
She is clearly chaotic evil. I can't see any argument otherwise when the facts are right there. She kills people and destroys things for fun. Not because she needs to, but because she likes to.

Killing for fun is evil.
Where does it say she kills people?


My point with the Draven thing was that if you ignore all the evidence then yes, you can say they are a different alignment.
I'm not ignoring any evidence. Draven likes glory that he gets from murdering, excuse me, "executing" unarmed prisoners. It clearly says that in his lore. His quotes are pretty irrelevant.
Jinx's lore only talks about destruction, anarchy, panic. Nothing about murder. Piltover is an industrial city operated by robots. none of her crimes have to have actual victims. Yeah, she talks about shooting people and about them dieing, but that's in the League. No one actually dies there. She also talks about being crazy. Crazy people talk all kinds of crazy stuff. :smalltongue:


Since you're pretty much the only person saying she isn't CE, and you don't even believe that, I'm not seeing where another interpretation can be.
I'm saying she's not clearly Evil. I'm fully aware my alternative interpretation is unlikely. Doesn't change the fact it is there.
And the only reason I think she's Evil is because I consider senseless destruction just for fun as evil. And because I interpret her as Evil.

EDIT: Oh, I just found a small tidbit in Piltover's description that says "Ever since, Piltover has been known as the City of Progress for the many technological advancements it has made, but when the mad girl, Jinx, had first attacked the city, its progress had stopped. Now the city is a cesspool of chaos, buildings crumbling, people dying, painted animals running rampant and the city in constant gunfire. Piltover's Finest, Sheriff Caitlyn and Vi, have been trying to track her down but to no avail." So I guess she actually is CE. Although it's a wiki page, so who knows how accurate it is.

Mando Knight
2014-03-17, 06:14 PM
Jinx's lore only talks about destruction, anarchy, panic. Nothing about murder. Piltover is an industrial city operated by robots. none of her crimes have to have actual victims.

Heavy property damage makes the owners of said property definite victims, even without discussing whether or not Piltover robots are developed enough to be considered persons in their own right.

The Insanity
2014-03-17, 06:24 PM
It's pretty clear I meant murder victims, as I was talking about murder.

A Tad Insane
2014-03-17, 08:23 PM
In her lore, Jinx "unleashed a series of warped and destructive capers that endangered the entire city" because it entertained her. The key words being "warped", "destructive" and "endangered". This ain't just spray paint a rhino neon pink and blue and riding it for teh lulz, this is stuff that usually involves lots of gibbets of school children. This is Xycon killing hobgoblins because it entertains him. This is Joker unleashing DEADLY laughing gas on the citizens because it entertains him.

Iruka
2014-03-17, 08:56 PM
Jinx's lore only talks about destruction, anarchy, panic.

Spreading 'destruction, anarchy and panic' is in my book enough to file her under CE.

Lord_Gareth
2014-03-17, 10:04 PM
Look - Jinx could only be CN if she failed to understand how her actions hurt others. But her behavior, her dialogue, indicates a CLEAR understanding that she's hurting others - and she doesn't care. She's evil.

Arkhaic
2014-03-17, 10:12 PM
But Jinx is funny, and that bumps her a step up on the alignment chart. Therefore, she is effectively chaotic neutral.

A Tad Insane
2014-03-17, 10:24 PM
But Jinx is funny, and that bumps her a step up on the alignment chart. Therefore, she is effectively chaotic neutral.

But Elan is funny too. Does that mean he's chaotic exalted? Or is he actually chaotic neutral, and being funny is why he's chaotic good? I'm confused now :smallfrown:

The Oni
2014-03-17, 10:40 PM
She's not tho. :smallconfused: Some people choose to interpret her like that in fan works like comics or fan art, but that's just headcanons. There's not enough details in lore or game to make it likely.

BTW, there's an offical animated music video with her, it might give some more insight to her psyche.

I've seen the video, which is most of the info I have on her anyhow. I haven't played League since she came out. She's cute in the vid, it seems to be the rest of the official art that makes her look demented (and how, I might add!). Apologies.


I can totally see the arguments for CE and her quotes do indicate that she probably has no compunctions about killing people, but OTOH nowhere does it actually say that she murders anyone and as we can see in the video Piltover is largely operated by robots.

The lore talks about crime, mayhem and panic, but doesn't mention murder.

Causing deliberate mayhem and panic would be the definition of terrorism, which most people would agree is evil. Not to mention even if the robots aren't sentient at all, it's still the destruction of property and likely thousands of people's livelihoods. Clearly Jinx enjoys hurting people for its own sake.

BTW I dunno if she's crazy or not. She may just be sadistic, a trait found in perfectly sane, rational (if generally nasty) people.

NikitaDarkstar
2014-03-18, 01:55 AM
Well there is one more theory for her behavior. Looking at her she's still basically a teenager. Now lets be honest here, having some rather violent impulses and fantasies at that age isn't exactly unheard of. Combine that with potentially never having had to learn to restrain yourself and you basically have Jinx. She's playing a game. It's fun and filled with adrenaline. Somewhere it does register that it has some form of consequences, just not how it applies to her because she's having fun and she's the hero of her own story.
So basically a kid with a bit to much power and warped sense of reality.
But with that in mind I do still believe she's CE, but I also think it would be possible to redeem her.

Brother Oni
2014-03-18, 02:51 AM
@The Insanity: Much as I like seeing Tekkano-Makichan's work spread, I'm afraid I'm going to have to point you at the forum rules (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/announcement.php?a=1) regarding signatures.

On the plus side since I know her, I can ask if she would be willing to extract out a static frame for your use.