[3.5]Greenbound Summoning at Level 10+

[Vash9177]

Is Greenbound Summoning worth a feat slot at higher levels of play? Rashemi Elemental Summoning seems like it gets more powerful summons but I wasn't sure if it would be worth it to have both on a druid.

Thoughts?

[docnessuno]

From having played a summoner druid from level 5 to 16, i would say that Greenbound starts losing steam around level 9, but it's still quite handy until level 13 at least. I kept it for my whole career (we had retraining available) but i could see someone dropping it if his build is feat-starved.

Remember that even with higher level SNA, summoning multiple lower-level monsters is an option (and, if they are beefed up enough, often a very effective one).

Edit: as a side note, that particular character was one of the most enjoyable i ever played, but i had to often refrain myself to avoid stealing the spotlight from the rest of the (low-mid op) party.

[eggynack]

From having played a summoner druid from level 5 to 16, i would say that Greenbound starts losing steam around level 9, but it's still quite handy until level 13 at least. I kept it for my whole career (we had retraining available) but i could see someone dropping it if his build is feat-starved.
Yeah, that sounds about right, I think, as level 9 is when you pick up animal growth, normally castable wall of thorns, and large elementals, simultaneously. 11 is also a problem point, as you get huge elementals, and that outscales other options by a lot, and oreads, which likely outdo the SLA's on greenbound creatures if that's what you're looking for. Still, greenbound is great for grappling, and spontaneous wall of thorns is solid into high levels, especially when you're running them out of low level slots.

It's probably best to avoid getting both feats, as they obviously don't stack together at all, but that's not always an option, as you'll often start at low levels, where greenbound is the best thing ever, and end at high levels, where it's just quite good. Druids are a bit feat-starved, as there are so many good options, especially at that level 9 slot (as it's the first real feat you can spend after you get wild shape), but these feats are both really good, so it's not all that troublesome. On a dedicated summoner, picking up both is a reasonable plan, but on a more balanced druid, who's going to likely want something like exalted wild shape in that slot, it might be for the best to stick to one or the other.

[docnessuno]

Yeah, that sounds about right, I think, as level 9 is when you pick up animal growth, normally castable wall of thorns, and large elementals, simultaneously. 11 is also a problem point, as you get huge elementals, and that outscales other options by a lot, and oreads, which likely outdo the SLA's on greenbound creatures if that's what you're looking for. Still, greenbound is great for grappling, and spontaneous wall of thorns is solid into high levels, especially when you're running them out of low level slots.

It's probably best to avoid getting both feats, as they obviously don't stack together at all, but that's not always an option, as you'll often start at low levels, where greenbound is the best thing ever, and end at high levels, where it's just quite good. Druids are a bit feat-starved, as there are so many good options, especially at that level 9 slot (as it's the first real feat you can spend after you get wild shape), but these feats are both really good, so it's not all that troublesome. On a dedicated summoner, picking up both is a reasonable plan, but on a more balanced druid, who's going to likely want something like exalted wild shape in that slot, it might be for the best to stick to one or the other.

For reference, here's my summoner druid build:


Shifter Druid 12 / Moonspeaker 3
1st and 4th racial substitution levels (rapid summons is AMAZING)

Feats:
1 Ashbound
3 Natural bond (DM ruled it applied to beast spirit)
6 Natural spell
9 Greenbound summoning
9 (Bonus) Augument summoning
12 Rashemi elemental summoning
15 Dragon wild shape