Gestalt thought experiment

[Virdish]

I've been wanting to try and see what I can pull off with a dread necro in gestalt. It's a ninth level character (in case I need to re roll in my current campaign) I've got a couple thoughts rolling around in my head. So I'll throw out a couple build snips.
Illumian necropolitan
Dn7/dread witch 3//bard 9

Feats
Southern magician
Requiem
Extend
Persist


This would probably be best with a divine bard but then I couldn't do sublime chord to get dual nines. Either way I get to do persist shenanigans (next time I pick up a feat) with a small army of undead who are bolstered by my songs. Obviously this build is taking another level of dread witch and then going back to dn.

Do 9//war blade x/other X

Now I get to be in line with my pack of undead as we smash face. Not totally sure I like this build because now I need to worry about strength and dex but it might be fun.

Then there are various dn//cleric combos. Also thought about pulling some dusk blade in there as well. Thoughts?

[docnessuno]

A couple thoughts:

Get your 8th DN level, it's awesome.
Tomb-tainted soul is an amazing feat for DN.
I would try to fit some Cha-to-saves somewhere in the build (Probably with a paladin variant compatible with your alignment).
You could also go for a Bardblade / Bardsaber on one side of the gestalt. Full inspire awesomeness on top of a ToB chassis.
I also like the Duskblade idea, buy you would be Int/Str/Cha MAD.
You might want to consider the corpsecrafter line of feats if you want to get into serious undead-making.
Depending on the level of optimization you are looking for, and the leniency of your DM, there is a grey-area trick that allows you to switch your body with your own skeleton, animated by yourself (with all the DN bonus and possibly the corpsecrafter ones on top).

[Virdish]

Covered the need for tomb tainted soul by going necropolitan.
In the first build I am delaying the 8th level so I can pick up something fun through advanced learning though he definitely plans on going back for dn 8 probably at least up to 12. Though in that build the other side will be prestige heavy so he might just go dn all the way to 20.

On the other build
I have heard about bardsaber and bard blade but never seen one in action or the build behind it. I always want to use dusk blade in gestalt cause it is beast but I never seem to make int heavy characters to take advantage. I'm liking the bard saber for charisma SAD.

[docnessuno]

Here's a level 10 build:

Necropolitan Hellbred (spirit) => +2 cha, cast evil spells and use evil items regardless of alignment and class restrictions.

Dread Necromancer 8 / Dread witch 2 // Paladin 2 (Harmonious knight) / Crusader 8

Feats:
Song of the white raven
Requiem
Corpsecrafter
Destruction retribution

Notes: Cha to saves, Inspire courage as a 8th level bard (swift action, affecting undeads), 5th level manouvers, 9/10 DN casting, raise minions with +4 Str, +4 HP/HD, your minion explode on death dealing area negative energy damage (healing you and other minions, probably damaging enemies).

[Person_Man]

Undead are immune to to all mind-affecting effect, including morale effects. Most Bard bonuses are morale bonuses. So if your goal is to raise an army of the dead and then buff them, Bard probably isn't very helpful. (Though I'm sure there's a workaround through a Feat or prestige class somewhere).

Also, having DM'd for a Dread Necoromancer, I can tell you that it can be a real hassle. It's just very hard to DM encounters for a player who has tons of minions. So you should check with your DM before using it.

You may wish to consider a Sorcerer//Bard instead. You can spontaneously Summon Monster, and then use your music to buff them. It's less efficient then having a legion of undead, but a lot easier to manage.

Or if you want to fight from the front line, you could also consider an Incarnate//Crusader. Incarnate gets 1 excellent infinitely replaceable undead minion from Necrocarnum Circlet plus a bunch of defensive buffs. Crusader gets Whiteraven tactics and even more defensive stuff. It's a nearly unkillable build when done right.

[Nightraiderx]

Requiem was Already mentioned Person Man.

[Person_Man]

Requiem was Already mentioned Person Man.

Oh, sorry. I saw it on the Feat list but didn't immediately recognize it.

[Rebel7284]

If you are leaning the cleric route, you can always do something like:
Dread Necromancer 9//
Paladin of Tyranny 2/Hexblade 2/Dread Witch 1/Ur Priest 2/Dread Witch +2

Although this gives you rebuke undead twice. If you can trade it out for a different turning pool, that would be best. Or just take a single level of Ur Priest and more of Dread Witch.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Dread Necro//Bard is actually quite good for a fear build (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=3809.0). When using Dread Necro though, keep in mind that its 8th level ability switches your HD of undead from Animate Dead to be based on your class level instead of your caster level. If you stop taking Dread Necromancer at the 8th level and switch to a prestige class, you'll never increase the number of HD of undead you can have from Animate Dead past 8th level, short of increasing your Cha score.

Put prestige classes that lose levels of spellcasting on the Bard side, so you won't lose any Dread Necro spellcasting.

I'd make it something like Dread Necromancer 20// Bard 4/ Dread Witch 1/ Bard 1/ Nightmare Spinner 1/ Bard 3/ Sublime Chord 2/ Dread Witch 4/ Nightmare Spinner 4. Trade Inspire Courage for Inspire Awe, trade your Suggestion song for Haunting Melody, go with a race that can get Dreadful Wrath (PGtF), and get the Ghostly Visage familiar from Dread Necro and always have it use its paralyzing gaze in combat. Get max ranks in Intimidate with Imperious Command (DotU), Fearsome armor (DotU), and the Never Outnumbered skill trick (CS). You can use Desert Half-Orc (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/environmentalRacialVariants.htm#desertHalfOrcs) with the Half-Humans variant in Races of Destiny p150 to still get Dreadful Wrath, and you can get Menacing Demeanor via the Otyugh Hole in CS without spending a feat on it.

You could instead go Dread Necromancer 20// Bard 4/ Dread Witch 5/ Nightmare Spinner 1/ Sublime Chord 2/ Nightmare Spinner 4/ Paragnostic Apostle or Incantatrix 4. That would give you the Dread Witch benefits noticeably sooner, but you wouldn't get much improvement to your Inspire Awe and you'd miss out on Haunting Melody.

[Virdish]

Only problem with going dn 20 is the waste that is the capstone if I'm already undead. Though I suppose I could try and get a true re on myself before the capstone kicks in. I mean hell lich is an awesome template, especially for free. I had totally missed the whole 8th level switch to character level. That does seem to have the annoying trait of locking me into dn after 8th level. I am fond of the idea of putting dread witch on the other side of the caster build

Donesuno
Does the hellbred ability allow them to get into classes with evil reqs without being evil? You would need to be LG for paladin but you can't be good for dn.

[docnessuno]

Docnessuno
Does the hellbred ability allow them to get into classes with evil reqs without being evil? You would need to be LG for paladin but you can't be good for dn.

RAW no, but i think any reasonable DM would allow it.
The hellbred Evil exception is fluffed as using "evil" stuff to fight evil, allowing the use of evil spells and items without drawbacks (but evil actions would have the normal drawbacks). Overall to me it means "as a paladin you can use Evil stuff as long as you do it for a Good purpose". Their favored class is Paladin as well.

Straight from the racial feature:
"For example, using a +1 unholy longsword to slay orcs would not violate a hellbred paladin’s code of conduct, though using the weapon to kill another paladin would."

Also, i would personally drop the Dread witch PRC and go straight Dread Necromancer, but i included it in my build since you seemed to like it.

[Virdish]

Dread witch is for the fear build. It gets past immunity to fear. That way my aura and other fear effects are not shut down mid to late game.

So edited and shifted 20 level caster build

Dn20//bard1/nightmare spinner 1/bard +5/dread witch 2/sublime chord 2/ dread witch+2/nightmare spinner +4/X 3

X of course is going to be a full casting prc. Build has dual 9's, can effect anyone with it's fear effects. Gets an extra slot of each level everyday for illusion spells. Feats of note in this build. Requiem, southern magician, dmm persist.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

A Hellbred Necropolitan is actually perfect for a charismatic evil character. As though he bluffed the lords of the upper planes into giving him a chance at redemption, only to thumb his nose at them and become undead to avoid the fate he deserves.

[Virdish]

I love the idea of a hellbred necropolitan. Grab true rez before 20 then go lich. Post above has an updated build. Only issue I'm having is entry requirements. I may need to qualify as human so I can take able learner.

[Fouredged Sword]

Devati rogue X's // anything else.

Hit the epic slight of hand skill checks and steal everything in reality as a free action by moving the two halves of you as a free action, and stealing all things as a free action.

As both are set DC's, you can do so without fail with enough min/maxing. It's a variation of the goblin lightning thief build, but divati allows you to condense it into one character.