Leadership 1st level followers and scroll scribing

[Yogibear41]

Now I know the followers gained by the leadership feat can never gain a level or experience points from fighting, but would it be to far out of the ordinary to say they could earn a single experience point every day just living their lives as normal? The reason I ask is because say you had a handful of 1st level wizards who gain the scribe scroll feat normally, the XP cost to scribe a single scroll of a 1st level spell is only 1 xp or 1/25th of the items base price which in the case of a 1st level spell with a CL of 1 would be 25 gold, basically would it be to far fetched to say each level 1 wizard could create a single scroll every day (as long as they had the gold/materials to do so) and if not every day, then every other day, or once a week? and so on and so forth.

[Silva Stormrage]

It would be up to the DM to decide. The better question is why these followers would sacrifice all of their potential for growth to craft you some cheap scrolls.

Not the worst use of leadership but I don't see why they would do that.

[OldTrees1]

Where does it say your followers cannot gain xp?

Sidenote: They are unlikely to work for free. They are not cohorts after all.

[Sir Chuckles]

Where does it say your followers cannot gain xp?

Sidenote: They are unlikely to work for free. They are not cohorts after all.

SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#leadership)

Followers don’t earn experience and thus don’t gain levels.

Right under the Leadership description. Specifically, "Number of Followers by Level".

[Yogibear41]

Oh well I never said they would be working for free, a place to live, food in their bellies everyday, and protection from monsters, seems like a pretty good payment for someone who would probably be a 1st level commoner somewhere waiting to be killed by any cr 1/4 monster that even looked their way, if it wasn't for the person with the leadership feat. Few hours a day with pen and parchment seems like a much easier job that busting your tail doing normal work.

[OldTrees1]

SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#leadership)


Right under the Leadership description. Specifically, "Number of Followers by Level".

Well, there is the answer, followers do not gain xp period. Even from living their normal lives.

[Yogibear41]

Yes, that is the RAW answer, but this was less of a RAW question and more of a imo common sense says otherwise, wanted to see what other people thought.

[OldTrees1]

Yes, that is the RAW answer, but this was less of a RAW question and more of a imo common sense says otherwise, wanted to see what other people thought.

Oh.
In that case, I think:
Followers should gain some xp from challenges they face (proportional to the challenge they face, not the challenge you face).
However:
They will not level up unless you have a high level follower slot open.
You must pay them for the xp they expend on your behalf. Just as you would have to pay them for gold or time spent on your behalf.

[Slipperychicken]

Ask your GM about using Pathfinder's crafting fix (i.e. remove XP costs). It's kind of absurd that you could have a whole army of Wizards, and none of them could craft you a single scroll.

Also, I'd probably say you could maybe get an average of 25% off on the scrolls since they're working for you. Even that's pushing it to borderline WBL abuse. That way, the wizards earn half what they normally would (giving you such a generous discount for the same reason they're following you around). You get scrolls on the cheap, and they get to make a living. Wizards aren't stupid -they know what those scrolls are worth, and their rare skill-set largely precludes sweatshop conditions.

[cakellene]

Oh.
In that case, I think:
Followers should gain some xp from challenges they face (proportional to the challenge they face, not the challenge you face).
However:
They will not level up unless you have a high level follower slot open.
You must pay them for the xp they expend on your behalf. Just as you would have to pay them for gold or time spent on your behalf.

Or you could be a thrallherd.

[Bullet06320]

a better question is, what good are those level 1 followers if you cant put them to good use?
your feeding them, clothing, protecting them, and in return they are earning their keep working and learning from their master
I see no reason not to let them work for you

[SiuiS]

Now I know the followers gained by the leadership feat can never gain a level or experience points from fighting, but would it be to far out of the ordinary to say they could earn a single experience point every day just living their lives as normal? The reason I ask is because say you had a handful of 1st level wizards who gain the scribe scroll feat normally, the XP cost to scribe a single scroll of a 1st level spell is only 1 xp or 1/25th of the items base price which in the case of a 1st level spell with a CL of 1 would be 25 gold, basically would it be to far fetched to say each level 1 wizard could create a single scroll every day (as long as they had the gold/materials to do so) and if not every day, then every other day, or once a week? and so on and so forth.

First level wizards count as like, third level followers, unfortunately. There's text floating around somewhere (it's in an awkward spot and I never really, y'know, cared) that gives you the judgement stuff for what followers count where. A full casting class gives your follower an effective +2 level.

No, the real trick is circumventing XP requirements. Get human wizard followers, and retrain tem so they have the sanctum spell feat. Have them scribe sanctum-scrolls of acid splash (or another 0 level spell); a 0 level spell is rounded up to 1, but a -1 level spell is not. Your followers are now creating gold and XP which can only be used for crafting. Further, WotC provided the base rule that anyone can give their XP for crafting if they like; a single wizard can create a bunch of -1st level scrolls, then after a month go around to every other wizard and help them, granting them all virtual GP and XP from his stores.

You also end up with tons of scrolls of acid splash which is cool.

[Yogibear41]

I'm fairly certain most dms would laugh at you if you created spells of a negative 1 level to gain XP and gold.

That being said I have a few questions going in the Simple Q&A about creating scrolls for 0 xp, so far it has been verified that I can create 0 level scrolls for 0 xp, and I have a question pending about a way to create 1st level scrolls for 0 xp. verified as doable with the right feats. :smallsmile:


Also that bit about 1st level wizards counting at 3rd level followers is from the Epic level Handbook which is 3.0 the 3.5 DMG says nothing about it, therefore it has been updated and is no longer valid. :smallsmile:

Also I plan to recruit them as 1st level commoners, then retrain them to be wizards, or fighters, or etc. using retraining rules.

DM has already said the retraining will be possible, but could take time.

[Yogibear41]

Time to start stockpiling those magic missile and cure light wounds scrolls :smallsmile: Muahahahhaha!


Cloistered Cleric Identify Scrolls!!! YES :smallcool:

[SiuiS]

I'm fairly certain most dms would laugh at you if you created spells of a negative 1 level to gain XP and gold.

When either infinite wealth and paying folks for their XP or creating an infinite ambrosia engine is totally kosher.

[qute]
Also that bit about 1st level wizards counting at 3rd level followers is from the Epic level Handbook which is 3.0 the 3.5 DMG says nothing about it, therefore it has been updated and is no longer valid. :smallsmile:
[/quote]

No, any 3.0 information which is not specifically addressed is still 100% valid, meaning that since it wasn't changed it is still in full effect.


Also I plan to recruit them as 1st level commoners, then retrain them to be wizards, or fighters, or etc. using retraining rules.

DM has already said the retraining will be possible, but could take time.

If your DM has already given you the green light, you're in; but by the books you would be retraining your commoners (1st level followers) into wizards (3rd level followers), you would lose some or all, bump them to third and have vacant first level follower slots.

[Brookshw]

Yes, that is the RAW answer, but this was less of a RAW question and more of a imo common sense says otherwise, wanted to see what other people thought.

Well if you're just looking for opinions, no, I wouldn't let that slide.

[OldTrees1]

Also that bit about 1st level wizards counting at 3rd level followers is from the Epic level Handbook which is 3.0 the 3.5 DMG says nothing about it, therefore it has been updated and is no longer valid. :smallsmile:


No, any 3.0 information which is not specifically addressed is still 100% valid, meaning that since it wasn't changed it is still in full effect.

If your DM has already given you the green light, you're in; but by the books you would be retraining your commoners (1st level followers) into wizards (3rd level followers), you would lose some or all, bump them to third and have vacant first level follower slots.

Leadership was reprinted without the Epic Level Handbook's alterations. This leads to 2 interpretations:
1) DMG 3.5 did not update ELH's leadership rules so those rules are still in effect.
2) DMG 3.5 updated Leadership and thus 3.0 leadership rules (including ELH's) are replaced.

[Yogibear41]

Leadership was reprinted without the Epic Level Handbook's alterations. This leads to 2 interpretations:
1) DMG 3.5 did not update ELH's leadership rules so those rules are still in effect.
2) DMG 3.5 updated Leadership and thus 3.0 leadership rules (including ELH's) are replaced.

I can agree with this, but that doesn't mean I don't like option 2 better :smallsmile:

Granted the bit about PC class followers and adepts and aristocrats as followers is listed under Optional Rule: Exceptional Followers with PC races getting +3 to the adjustment and aristocrats and adpets getting +2.

While the 3.5 DMG just says that followers are normally low leveled NPC classes.

Even if playing by the 3.0 rules, it doesn't say anything about magewrights getting an adjustment :smallsmile: granted their spell list is rather limited at 1st level.