Pursuing Avenger - Did I create him well?

[Signir]

Hi,

I have question about optimizing my Wood Elf, Pursuing Avenger, Kensei (level 16). Did I create him well? Or can he bemore optimized?

I choose Wood elf -for being first in iniciative, for feat "Valenar weapon" training" and "Falchion funny times" (Carnage falchion with gauntlets of destruction)
Pursuing Avenger - because of flavor, Wis/Dex.
Kensei - besause of boring but effective +1 to hit and +4 to damage, DPR is Hirkals strong side and this makes it better.

Here is summary:

Hirkal, level 16
Elf, Avenger, Kensei
Build: Pursuing Avenger
Avenger's Censure: Censure of Pursuit
Kensei Focus: Kensei Focus Falchion
Elf Subrace: Wood Elf
Select option: Sense Threat
Select option: Wood Elf Reactive Stealth
Background: Born Under a Bad Sign (Born Under a Bad Sign Benefit)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 14, Con 12, Dex 22, Int 11, Wis 22, Cha 9.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 13, Con 11, Dex 16, Int 10, Wis 16, Cha 8.


AC: 33 Fort: 28 Reflex: 31 Will: 31
HP: 126 Surges: 8 Surge Value: 31

TRAINED SKILLS
Religion +14, Acrobatics +20, Stealth +20, Perception +25, Endurance +15

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +8, Bluff +7, Diplomacy +7, Dungeoneering +14, Heal +14, History +8, Insight +14, Intimidate +9, Nature +16, Streetwise +7, Thievery +14, Athletics +10

FEATS
Level 1: Unarmored Agility
Level 2: Master at Arms
Level 4: Power of Skill
Level 6: Deadly Draw
Level 8: Superior Will
Level 10: Battle Awareness
Level 11: Painful Oath
Level 12: Superior Reflexes
Level 14: Valenar Weapon Training
Level 16: Great Fortitude

POWERS
Avenger at-will 1: Overwhelming Strike
Avenger at-will 1: Focused Fury
Avenger encounter 1: Angelic Alacrity
Avenger daily 1: Aspect of Might
Avenger utility 2: Wolf's Vitality
Avenger encounter 3: Fury's Advance
Avenger daily 5: Menacing Presence
Avenger utility 6: Holy Blessing
Avenger encounter 7: Relentless Stride
Avenger daily 9: Blade of Repulsion
Avenger utility 10: Enter the Crucible
Avenger encounter 13: Raging Tempest (replaces Angelic Alacrity)
Avenger daily 15: Aspect of Fury (replaces Blade of Repulsion)
Avenger utility 16: Refire the Forge

ITEMS
Elven Chain Shirt (heroic tier), Diamond Cincture (heroic tier), Davros Elden's Defensive Step (heroic tier), Iron Armbands of Power (paragon tier), Periapt of Cascading Health +3, Salve of Power (heroic tier), Symbol of Victory +2, Carnage Falchion +4, Insight of the Vault (heroic tier), Backlash Tattoo (heroic tier), Gauntlets of Destruction (paragon tier), Siberys Shard of Radiance (paragon tier), Mercurial Mind (heroic tier), Dice of Auspicious Fortune (paragon tier), Ruby Scabbard (heroic tier), Longbow, Greater Cloth Armor (Basic Clothing) of Eyes +3

[Signir]

Oh, and I forgot about our company:

Elf hybrid Ranger Cleric - but more leader then striker
Gnome, Artificier
Kalashtar, Druid
Gnome, Wizard

[Inevitability]

It looks like you'll bring some much needed striker to the party. It's a bit low on damage. No biggie, because if more damage is needed, the cleric and druid can help with that.

Your race is one of the best choices for an avenger, your ability scores are very nice (though I'd swap strength and constitution) and your feats look good also.

If the other players aren't very optimized (and by what I can see of them, not so much) I'd say your level of optimization is about right.

[Signir]

(though I'd swap strength and constitution) and your feats look good also.

If the other players aren't very optimized (and by what I can see of them, not so much) I'd say your level of optimization is about right.

Thank You. About strength and constitution - I need 15 Strength at epic for feat "Power Attack" ( I have PP Kensei for +1 to hit and ED can be Destined Scion for another +1 to hit - I don´t much worry about -2 to hit ).

You are right about their level of optimization. :)

[Mando Knight]

Power Attack on an Avenger is certainly an interesting idea.

At +3, though, you should have masterwork cloth available. Use it.

[Signir]

At +3, though, you should have masterwork cloth available. Use it.

Done, thanks. :smile:

[Signir]

And what about hybrid version? Hybrid Avenger+Seeker, or better Avenger + Executioner? Can be better than my pure Avenger? I don´t know, have somebody an opinion about it?
I think, that pure Avengers are better than hybrid versions, but I want see yours opinions about it, thanks.

(I know, that there must be some changes - weapon change from falchion to rapier for example for better accuracy - "Deft blade" feat. Or pure Avenger will have with falchion better damage with "Power attack" feat in epic.).

[Yakk]

If you are aiming to optimize for a level 16 avenger, don't go with hybrid.

Go with a half-elf not-avenger.

Half elf. Dilettante twin strike. Versatile master. Now you have an at-will double attack.

Valendar Weapon's Training for the Double Scimitar. Make it the 19-20 crit range enchantment. Pick up TWF and the paragon feat that gives you an extra attack if your attack crits.

You now roll 2d20 x2, and if any of them land 19-20 you get an extra basic attack (~35% chance of getting that extra attack per round off a twin strike. 57% if you AP.). Sure, it only deals ongoing damage on a crit -- but twice as many crits is worth the sacrifice.

You can either use "make your dilettante attack with a different attribute" feat, or just build a strength/dex low-wisdom not-avenger. Ignore your class encounter powers (you plan on training them away at epic). Pick a paragon path with that in mind. Maybe do a power-swap feat (for a minor action or interrupt attack -- disrupting strike for the win) then pick up adroit explorer to double the uses of the encounter attack power gained.

Frost cheese would be ideal, but difficult to overlap with the above. You could drop the 19-20 crit range (sniff), get a frost double scimitar, and go frost cheese for extra damage-per-hit.

Pump up your static damage bonuses on your twin strike with bracers of power (+4 item bonus to damage) and maybe frost cheese (+5 per hit) etc.

...

A different approach would be to poach rogue powers instead. Build dex/strength again. Grab riposte strike for an auto-attack if they dare swing at you at-will (and if they run, pursuit kicks in). Go daggermaster for a 18-20 crit range with daggers, or 27.8% crit chance per swing with oath (on rogue and daggermaster powers only). Do the same TWF/extra attack on crit trick with an off-hand dagger.

...

A hybrid executioner|avenger gets +2d8 damage 1/round on your overwealming strike at the cost of a hybrid talent feat and other "hybrid" features. And you can swap out crappy encounter powers for assassin's strike (save it for a crit?), and use a poison daily.

Power Attack is questionable: it tends to be a large investment for modest return, even in ideal situations, and it scales poorly against "over-leveled" opponents (and DMs tend to use such opponents in hard fights).

...

Another fun route that might work (unsure if you have the feat bandwidth) is to go polearm gamble. Attack your oath target, then force-move them away somehow (and knock prone) (boost distance on overwealming strike slide & shift should do it, plus polearm momentum). Now they have to stand up, and either approach you (and get gambled), or move away (and trigger your censure). Foes that try to swam you get gambled (without the double-roll, but still), and if your slide/prone is good enough don't get to attack you. Basically, become an anti-fighter, with foes knocked flying and lying on the ground.

[GPuzzle]

Honestly, I'd go with Morninglord as the PP and Radiant Double Scimitar, because that is 10 extra damage that stacks with Painful Oath (deal extra Radiant and Necrotic damage equal to your Wisdom modifier every time you hit your Oath of Emnity target), which, if you do boost up your Wisdom, is equal to +16 radiant damage at level 16 for every hit. For free. And it stacks. So we're looking at 2d6+61 at-will damage with some great accuracy. And that's equal to roughly 68 at-will, roughly, roll twice for every roll. I'd say that's a pretty good deal we're looking at.

[Nightgaun7]

I like Morninglord too, and more generally, I would avoid Kensei. It's just so damn boring.

[Yakk]

Painful Oath is "first time per turn", not every time, if I remember rightly.

Radiant scimitar does solve that problem.

There is a Pelor blessing that tosses another chunk of damage on Radiant attacks too.


====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Notvenger, level 16
Half-Elf, Avenger, Morninglord
Avenger's Censure: Censure of Pursuit
Half-Elf Power Selection: Dilettante
Background: Akanûl (Akanûl Benefit)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 20, Con 13, Dex 20, Int 11, Wis 15, Cha 11.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 16, Con 10, Dex 16, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 10.


AC: 34 Fort: 31 Reflex: 31 Will: 28
HP: 117 Surges: 8 Surge Value: 29

TRAINED SKILLS
Religion +13, Perception +17, Stealth +20, Acrobatics +19, Athletics +18

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +8, Bluff +8, Diplomacy +10, Dungeoneering +10, Endurance +9, Heal +10, History +8, Insight +14, Intimidate +8, Nature +10, Streetwise +8, Thievery +13

FEATS
Level 1: Valenar Weapon Training
Level 2: Heavy Blade Expertise
Level 4: Battle Awareness
Level 6: Unarmored Agility
Level 8: Superior Reflexes
Level 10: Superior Fortitude
Level 11: Versatile Master
Level 12: Superior Will
Level 14: Novice Power
Level 16: Adept Power

POWERS
Avenger at-will 1: Overwhelming Strike
Avenger at-will 1: Bond of Pursuit
Dilettante: Twin Strike
Avenger encounter 1: Angelic Alacrity
Avenger daily 1: Aspect of Might
Avenger utility 2: Refocus Enmity
Avenger encounter 3: Sohei Advance
Avenger daily 5: Bond of Foresight
Avenger utility 6: Oath of the Relentless Hunter
Avenger encounter 7: Inexorable Summons (retrained to Parry and Riposte at Novice Power)
Avenger daily 9: Blade of Guilt
Avenger utility 10: Decaying Presence
Avenger encounter 13: Sohei Rush (replaces Angelic Alacrity)
Avenger daily 15: Ghostly Chains (retrained to Unyielding Avalanche at Adept Power) (replaces Aspect of Might)
Avenger utility 16: Bulwark of Defiance

ITEMS
Radiant Double Scimitar +3, Radiant Temple Uniform Feyweave Armor +4, Siberys Shard of Radiance (paragon tier), Strikebacks (heroic tier), Amulet of Protection +4, Pelor's Sun Blessing (level 3), Acrobat Boots (heroic tier), Quickhit Braces (heroic tier), Symbol of Hope +1
====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======

1d6+21 damage on your twin strike (including vulnerability), x2, +5d6 per crit. Not that strong I suppose, but not bad. You do have 2 wasted encounter powers (unless you need them to charge), 1 wasted PP encounter power, and 2 wasted daily powers sadly. So the build gets a bit boring.

(You do have 2 encounter interrupt BAs, one from MC another from power-swapping).

How about a more conventional radiant cheese?

Pelors (+Wis), Painful (+Wis), Morninglord (+10), Overwealming ([W]+Wis+Enhance+Item+feat) with 22 wis (+6), +3 item, +3 enhance, +3 feat +3 shard

Which gives you [W]+40, +3d6 per crit (and maybe high crit if lucky). With a 2d6B1 weapon that matches the notavenger above (fewer swings, more pain per swing) before crits.

This is also ameanable to charge cheese, which the notvenger's twin strike is not.

Not sure how GPuzzle got 2d6+61. Did you dump dex on a notvenger and pump wisdom? That has a decent feat and stat tax to get yourself into heavy armor (as lacking int/dex means your AC will be abysmal)!

[GPuzzle]

I took Adept Dilletante, and I was adding 16 due to Painful Oath. 2d6 was the double scimitar, +6 (Wisdom)+16(Painful Oath)+3(Valenar Weapon Training)+20(both hits from Twin Strike), adding up to +45 damage. I had forgotten the item bonuses, so it'd be another 16 to add (considering +4 Weapon and Iron Armbands of Power).

[Yakk]

Ah, that does work better at Paragon, as you don't have Eternal Seeker to swap out every power.

Let's think about that.

Half Elf, 2 feats for Wis-based Twin Strike at-will (and MC Ranger as a side effect).

Morninglord and a Radiant +3 double-scimitar (feat for +3 damage and proficiency). (+3 enhance and +3 item bonus to damage). (+10 vulnerability damage) (level 15 item, paragon path)

22 wisdom. +6 damage/turn (feat) on oath target.

Pelor's Sun Blessing (+6 damage/hit with radiant vuln). (level 3 boon)

Radiant shard (+3 damage) (level 13ish item)

Heavy Blade Expertise (feat)

So I'm at 5/10 feats and 2 items of significant value (level 15 and 13). Twin strike is now:
+21 vs AC x2 for 1d6+28 damage, +6 on first hit/turn
which is pretty solid.

Iron Armbands of Power is questionable, as our Radiant sword already grants +3 item bonus -- burning a level 16 item for a mere +1 damage/hit is meh.

You can either pick up melee training for a +21 vs ACx2 for 1d6+31 (+6 on first hit/turn) damage basic attack (power of skill is not available), or we could give up charge and just get heavy blade opportunity (so we can use twin strike on OAs).

As our dex is about 18, our AC isn't as strong. If we take another ranger MC feat we can dual-wield scimitars instead of using a double scimitar, but paying for our offhand radiant scimitar is expensive. However, that ups us to 1d8 damage, and opens up scimitar dance (and now we do 16 damage on a *miss* assuming we have applied vulnerability) (however, we are an avenger, so missing is not going to happen often -- probably better to invest in crit than miss damage).

You do end up MC Ranger, and with your low Str cannot swap in any decent Ranger powers (or use their paragon paths), but what you gonna do?

At epic, our high Wisdom opens up that tasty wisdom auto-damage feat.