The Wisest Swordsage...

[Blkmge]

Just realised how ridiculously easy it is to get +WIS to everything, so I was thinking, how SAD can I make a swordsage?

Here's my idea.
Race: Halfling (Yondella's Sense)
Cleric 1 (For turning!)
Swordsage 7 (for the +4 to BAB, and Insightful Strikes)
Pr. Paladin 2 (Divine Grace!)



Nets you:
+WIS turning attempts
+WIS to Saves
+WIS to Damage
+WIS to Hit
+WIS to Init
+WIS to AC

Feats needed are:
Yondella's Sense, Serenity, Mounted Combat.

About the weakest of them is +WIS to hit, since it would apply only to a "normal melee attack", and thus not give you the option to pair it with a maneuver, earning you +WIS to damage as well. If you can convince a DM to rework to match the wording from Crusader, then it becomes far more worthwhile.

Edit: If you go unarmed swordsage, and take Intuitive Attack, you get +WIS to hit always, and +WISx2 when Smiting.. not too bad. Take a level in Warblade and you can do reasonable damage when doing your recovery mechanic. Does different recovery mechanics stack or combine with different martial adepts?

[Xerlith]

Changeling Shiba Protector

[Ruethgar]

Moon Blessed Ranger 2 for another Wis to AC and make it mystic for a few spells.

[animewatcha]

dragon mag has dragon warrior for wis to temp hitpoints and wis to ac as deflection ( gotta be unarmored and NG, TN, or NE).

[VoxRationis]

Isn't Divine Grace Charisma-based?
What part of that build shifts that to Wisdom? (This isn't a rhetorical question; you've probably answered that question and I legitimately want to know the answer.)

[Seerow]

Changeling Shiba Protector

Definitely this. 1 level dip = wis to hit and damage that stacks with everything else.


Moon Blessed Ranger 2 for another Wis to AC and make it mystic for a few spells.

Also do this. It gives Wis to AC in light armor, and stacks with the Swordsage feature (since they have different names).


What part of that build shifts that to Wisdom? (This isn't a rhetorical question; you've probably answered that question and I legitimately want to know the answer.)


The Serenity feat switches all of the Paladin stuff from Cha to Wis.

[Nightraiderx]

Ordained Champion 5 gets you an ability to burn turning for replacing strength with wisdom for rounds for attacking and damaging.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Kami's Intuition (OA) lets you make any knowledge check untrained and uses wisdom instead of intelligence on knowledge checks.
A high CL and access to Owl's Insight would be beneficial too.

[Blkmge]

dragon mag has dragon warrior for wis to temp hitpoints and wis to ac as deflection ( gotta be unarmored and NG, TN, or NE).

Since the AC bonus requires light armor for a swordsage thay wouldn't work. . Wis to HP might be useful still.

[Socratov]

the real question is would he be a *wise guy* (data:image/jpeg;base64,/9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD/2wCEAAkGBhQSERUUEhQWFRUWGBcaGRgYFxcYGBgYGBcXFRgXFx gcGyYeGCAlGhgYIC8gIycpLCwsGx4xNTAqNSYrLCkBCQoKDgwO Gg8PFyweHCUsLCwsKSwsLCwsLCwpLCwsLCksKSwsLCksLCwsLC wsLCksLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLP/AABEIAN0A5AMBIgACEQEDEQH/xAAcAAEAAQUBAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgMEBQcIAgH/xABIEAACAQIDBAgCBgcGBQQDAAABAgMAEQQSIQUxQVEGBxMiYX GBkTKhI0JSYrHBCBQzcoKS0UNjg6Ph8FOTorLxc8LD0hYkNP/EABkBAQEBAQEBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABAgMEBf/EACURAQEAAgICAQQCAwAAAAAAAAABAhEDMRIhEwQiQVFxkTKx8 P/aAAwDAQACEQMRAD8A3jSlKBSlKBSlUpsQF30FQmqRnv8ADr4nd/rVlJi7n/f4VWha9a0m1UyHn7WqlDjbNle2u48/A8jVLHgqMw9asZJA41qyJakFKxmy9oZu457w3H7Q/rWSFZs0su32lKVFKUvSgUpSgUpSgUpSgUpSgUpSgUpSgUpSgUp SgV4klC/EQPOrfamIKROy7wNPC5Av86w2xxnXMxLNc3JJPHhetSets2+9M xiMfYaDfuvWLeUk3NZPswwsfSrBsGQ1jVmku3rDR3rIYeO1fII bCqxqWtSKeJTMjDwNRmKWxqQ4+fKhHE6Co5k1rWPTGSu4J1GjD UHkakGzsZ2iXOjDRh48/I1ANt9YmCwNxNLmkH9lHZ3vvsdbJw+IioZgevknHIVhEeG3MCb yMD9YncPIe9XXl6SXXtvysftXbKQKSTc8v61gMZ0z7QfQaIdz6 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[(Un)Inspired]

Here you go (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125732)

This is how you stack up one ability score to everything. as Xerlith said, dropping halfling to get shiba protector is probably a better use of your race.

Vox, paladins can shift divine grace to wis with the serenity feat.

Edit: Moderate levels of ninjaing detected in all quadrants

[Metahuman1]

I've actually been kicking the idea of a Wildshape Mystic Ranger with 2 levels of Monk for feats, unarmed striking (Ranger would make him proficient since he's got all simple weapons.), Wis to AC while wild shaped, and either Evasion or Improved Invisibility, and then a level of Shiba Protector.

Don't suppose there's feats that can be used to simply off load reflex and will saves along with HP and Skill Checks to Wis while were at it, is there? Cause I'd love to have a character doing this build that literally adds Wis to everything/everything not governed by con.

[(Un)Inspired]

I've actually been kicking the idea of a Wildshape Mystic Ranger with 2 levels of Monk for feats, unarmed striking (Ranger would make him proficient since he's got all simple weapons.), Wis to AC while wild shaped, and either Evasion or Improved Invisibility, and then a level of Shiba Protector.

Don't suppose there's feats that can be used to simply off load reflex and will saves along with HP and Skill Checks to Wis while were at it, is there? Cause I'd love to have a character doing this build that literally adds Wis to everything/everything not governed by con.

Serenity basically does what you're looking for Save-wise. You have to take 2 levels of paladin to make it work but since mystic ranger is basically only a 10 level class anyway...

Throw 1 level of dragon warrior on for wis to hp and if you can use PF then a pinch of inquisitor can get you wis to a selection of skills.

[Metahuman1]

Hmm, my only hesitation here is delaying Wild Shaping access. Tell me, does anyone know of a feat that can be taken to off set that? Sorta like there's practiced caster for spell casters is there like a practiced wild shaper for druids/wild shape rangers?

[Dusk Eclipse]

Not a feat but there is an item in a Faerûn book that gives you +3 or +4 effective druid levels for Wilshape.

[Metahuman1]

Hmmmm, do you know the name of the item/what book it's in per chance?

[VoxRationis]

Wow. I have Dragon Compendium and I don't remember that at all. That said, I don't play paladins often...

[Karnith]

Hmmmm, do you know the name of the item/what book it's in per chance?
The Wild Shape Amulet can be found in Magic of Faerun (a 3.0 source, note), on page 167. It may have also been updated to 3.5, but I'm not sure where.

There's also the Skin of Kaletor, from Dragon Magazine #324, p. 75, which boosts your effective Wild Shape level in exchange for some hefty penalties on Cha-based skill checks.

Strictly speaking, though, both items only boost a Druid's Wild Shape ability; they wouldn't boost a Ranger's Wild Shape.

[Haldir]

Strictly speaking, though, both items only boost a Druid's Wild Shape ability; they wouldn't boost a Ranger's Wild Shape.

I'm not sure there's a strict ruling on this, but at my table I'd interpret "Wildshape ability as a Druid" to mean that anything that enhances a Druid's wildshape would apply to the Ranger variant as well.

[Karnith]

I'm not sure there's a strict ruling on this, but at my table I'd interpret "Wildshape ability as a Druid" to mean that anything that enhances a Druid's wildshape would apply to the Ranger variant as well.
That's certainly how I'd run it, but one item only has an effect when worn by a Druid (not any character capable of using Wild Shape, just Druids) while the other functions differently for Druids and non-Druids. How a Ranger's Wild Shape functions isn't the issue, it's that you actually need Druid class levels to benefit from the items.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Well the Wildshape Ranger entry states it get's Wildshape (as Druid), so one could argue they should get to count their Ranger levels as Druid levels for that kind of stuff. It isn't RAW and it is ambiguous but I don't see how it can be more overpowered than a Druid with the same items.

[animewatcha]

Oriental Adventures reads shiba protector as human only. Am I missing an errata somewhere on it?

[Blkmge]

Ordained Champion 5 gets you an ability to burn turning for replacing strength with wisdom for rounds for attacking and damaging.

Kind of want to be careful, I'd like to have access to level 9 maneuvers, which means I can't go past 6 levels in other classes unless they advance the IL. So Ordained Champ is out.
Dropping the Halfling for Shiba Protector and then takin 2 level so of MoonBlessed Ranger for some serious unhittableness / smashy power seems like a good tradeoff though.