Looking for a special kind of effect

[Kol Korran]

I seek the playground's help on a very specific request.

In a campaign I'm DMing (PF, but 3.5 knowledge might be applicable as well) I want to make a special encounter: Basically, the PCs are near the culmination of a major part on the campaign (They'll be level 5 at that point), they'll burst in the top of the tower, fight the baddies, and will shatter the artifact which they know is supposed to save the armies of their nation, but...

I want the BBEG to interject here. She is a half fiend witch of very high level (18 or 19 I think. Definitely access to 9th level spells). She will also be mythic by the PF mythic rules, though I'm not fully sure what tier, or what that will mean (Doing this of modules). She will try to subvert the party's success into a feeling of failure,and perhaps have them show allegiance/ give up their soul for her dark lord, thus having them fail despite their actual success in the real world.

I want her to make some sort of an illusion or phantasm (Or something, I'm not all that clear on the effects of the school), which will be complemented by her (hopefully) deceptive and persuasive arguments. I'm having trouble with the spell, it needs to achieve the following:

1) She will pretend to scry and show scrying images from different places in the world, (Which are fake) with the images seeming believable. I don't think this element is a problem.

2) The party has a cleric of a good deity, and a paladin. I'd like to get the effect of both of them feeling (falsely), that they lost their divine connection. I have no Idea what spell, mythic spell or effect can get that.

3) The PCs' will be protected by some holy aura at this point, blocking the BBEG's direct spells and effects. So I'd prefer it if the spell/ effect doesn't affect them directly, and Ideally- Doesn't require a saving throw. (That will be a huge hint as well, which I'd prefer to avoid.) Not sure about this either.

Yes, I can use some sort of a DM fiat for the cool encounter, but I think that is shoddy play and a bit lame. I'd prefer to have something more substantial on my side.

Basically up to 9th level spells, including mythic spells (but NOT D&D's epic spells!) She has the back up power of a demon lord, so quite alot is possible.

[Fouredged Sword]

An AMF will remove all their divine powers and prevent their god from being able to contact them.

Another idea is a brute force suggestion. A high DC suggestion spell can power through their saves and suggest that their god has abandoned them.

[Kazudo]

I did something similar in another game, though I used a homebrewed version of Anti-Magic Field that applied its effects gradually, starting at the door of the university they were in, with its full effects gaining strength as they neared the bad guy. Essentially the only way the noncasters knew what was going on was that their shiny magical equipment started to discolor (magical equipment was, in that world, always glowing a specific color depending on your [or its] alignment) and turn grey over time. Behind the curtain, I just bumped up the TNs of all of their attempts that used magical items they had until the effects were mitigated. The casters, however, had to make an increasingly difficult caster check with a TN of 10+spell level+proximity. It was a big dungeon though. If they needed to heal, they just went to the door where their TNs were far lower to hit. This took time, though, and let me roll on wandering monsters.

Anyway, once they got to the middle, the BBEG's "illusory presence" just manifested in the sky (a VERY large illusory presence) outside of the AMF. The party wasn't swayed by what illusions it showed them (which weren't actually illusions. Hilariously enough, it WAS actually showing them exactly what would happen if they destroyed the MacGuffin and played right into his hands), so they went on to fight the artifact monster barrier maiden thing that emerged. Without any magical aid at all. Well, that is, until the warhulking hurler threw the mages outside of the AMF, since it had a limited vertical distance. They landed on a wall or pillar and could cast into the field (homebrewed spell and all).

Long story short, if you have a mythical enemy that the group isn't supposed to face at this point, much less defeat, and it's conceivable that the individual is significantly advanced magically speaking, you can make some spells that (within reason) will suit your needs as long as you set the rules yourself for little things like detection and dispelling (even if it's not a problem. DMs must always at least APPEAR consistent).

[atomicwaffle]

AMF with something alchemical, like scarecrows fear gas. Also, don't forget Nystul's Magical Aura and Undetectable Alignment.

[John Longarrow]

To simulate the scrying...

Have a large round mirror over a hole in the roof.

Have a matching mirror below (40')

Have an illusion of what you want the party to see down inside the tower.

The party sees the illusion through the mirrors, so it looks like its coming from the mirror up top.

The angle on the mirror may give it away, unless it is raised up over the hole by a fair bit, thus making it look more like its just angled for convenient viewing of a group...

[Kol Korran]

Hmmmm... Interesting suggestions. Some thoughts:
1) An AMF may work, but as to the spell, it focuses around the witch, which kind of takes her powers away, including casting the illusions she uses to trick the party. I can make a slight alternate version where it can be focused on another spot, but The characters will be in a big place, so they might move out of the field.

2) Mass suggestion sounds interesting, but from what I understand it can't force the party to feel things that are not there, just take a suggested course of action. No, I don't consider "feel like you lost connection to your gods" an action.

Buuuuuttt. I think this is a step in the right direction. If there could be some spell or power that will make everything sort of happen in the PC's head (A sort of a dream sequence, only that it feels real), that would prove the best solution of all. I have looked at the Dream and Nightmare spells (Haven't had time to comb through all of the spells), and they are similar to what I want, except for a few points:
- They affect only one target, where I want the entire party
- They Take too long to cast (1 minute for dream, 10 minutes for nightmare). She needs to cast it in 1 full round or less. Sure, I can solve this with quicken or such, but since upgrading the number of affected will also increase the spell level, I don't think I have a lot of wiggling room here.
- The recipient can't quite answer back. I'd like them to be able to respond, to ave it as a talk, debate, a discussion or little drama.
- Nightmare offers a save. I can probably work with it (Though it will be a hint at some effect), but I'd prefer something else.

Actually, I think that making such a spell would be awesome, since it will give the Witch means of interacting with the party further in dreams, thus increasing their interactions with her, foreshadowing meeting like. A bit like in Far Scape where the human got the... weird black leather guy in his head. It made him into a much more involved villain! :smallamused:

Ok, I may need help with making the parameters of this "Dream vision" (For lack of a better name). I want it to have some limitations, but I can work those later. I need the basics for now.

3) As to the "scrying"- either part of the dream vision, or perhaps just illusions she cast herself? it's ok if they don't look fully real, the party know these are "images in mirrors", sort to speak.

Any help with the spell parameters? Ideas of level? Possible Mythic enhancement? Or other cool ideas?