Damage Reduction vs Spells that deal physical damage?

[Fenris-Wolf]

Just like it says in the title, how does DR interact with Spells that deal physical damage?

This issue came up during our last meet when the party druid "Quill Blasted" a pair of creatures with DR 10/evil; our DM argued that since the quills did 1d6 piercing damage each the DR should negate the effects of the quills.

That seemed a bit silly to me, that something as common as DR could completely negate the damage from a 5'th level spell. I reasoned that either the DR would not apply because it was a spell or that if it did apply all the quills should be counted a single attack (i.e 3 quills would deal 3d6 -10, not 1d6-10 + 1d6-10 + 1d6-10).

Unfortunately we never came to a decision bc once our DM read the part about quills giving a negative to attacks and saves per quill (it was 17 quills vs 2 large creatures, they both failed their saves :smalleek:) and dealing another 1d6 per quill if removed he just said "@#$%-it! I'm ending the encounter, never cast that spell again."

So who is right, or are we both wrong? And can you direct me to a page reference.

P.S. I am the druid that casued this mess, but this is not a thread about the insanity that is quill blast, just a DR question

[tyckspoon]

Spells are not subject to DR unless they say they are, regardless of the damage type dealt. cf Damage Reduction (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#damageReduction),


A creature with this special quality ignores damage from most weapons and natural attacks. Wounds heal immediately, or the weapon bounces off harmlessly (in either case, the opponent knows the attack was ineffective). The creature takes normal damage from energy attacks (even nonmagical ones), spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities. A certain kind of weapon can sometimes damage the creature normally, as noted below.

If you want the physical book reference, I regret I do not have time to hunt that one out right now.. I'm sure somebody will be along to provide :)

[Fenris-Wolf]

Thanks... Monster Manual maybe?

[SinsI]

The question is, is the damage done by the spell or by physical objects that are made to attack via spell?
I.e. something similar to Sword of Dancing.

Since the spell in question is of Creation school, I'd say it creates actual quills and makes them do an area attack, so DR certainly stops it. Source of damage is not the Quill Blast spell, but each individual nonmagical Quill.

[Diarmuid]

DR is completely useless against spells unless specified like Splinterbolt.

[Psyren]

By RAW spells ignore it even if they do physical damage, but given that psionics got saddled with that restriction I encourage your group to apply it to spells as well.

[Shinken]

By RAW spells ignore it even if they do physical damage, but given that psionics got saddled with that restriction I encourage your group to apply it to spells as well.

Agreed. It makes more sense and it's simpler, anyway.

[Raezeman]

Dungeon master guide page 292: Spells, spell-like abilities, and energy attacks (even nonmagical fire) ignore damage reduction. So i would say damage reduction doesn't work against it.

Also, i take it you use quill blast as defined in complete divine? Maybe your DM allows the spell compendium version of it, which has a set number of quills that hit for each size category (10 for large i think) and the penalties for lodged quills are noncumulative.

[ericgrau]

If it's SR no you could take it as the spell creating something physical to do the damage rather than dealing damage itself. It's a bit fuzzy, but it might be RAI at least.

FWIW quill blast is SR yes... so yet again people might want to rule it different ways. But by RAW it looks like it bypasses DR.

[SinsI]

Spell specifies that the damage is Piercing. Is there any other application of that damage descriptor besides Damage Reduction?

[Shinken]

Spell specifies that the damage is Piercing. Is there any other application of that damage descriptor besides Damage Reduction?

A few Fighter feats, I think.

[nyjastul69]

Spell specifies that the damage is Piercing. Is there any other application of that damage descriptor besides Damage Reduction?

Some weapon enhancements only apply to certain types of damage. I know this isn't really what you were looking for, but it's the only thing I can think of at the moment.

[SinsI]

Some weapon enhancements only apply to certain types of damage. I know this isn't really what you were looking for, but it's the only thing I can think of at the moment.

In other words, everything seems to imply that if the damage caused by spell has a specific Weapon Damage descriptor (piercing like in this case, or bludgeoning like part of the damage caused by Meteor Swarm say), it is Weapon Damage of the appropriate type and is thus subject to DR.

[Phelix-Mu]

Yes, except for DR explicitly does not apply to damage from a spell unless the spell specifies otherwise. Just because the spell creates an effect that then deals damage doesn't mean it isn't the spell dealing damage.

Yes, poorly worded, but not very ambiguous.

[TheOOB]

Spell specifies that the damage is Piercing. Is there any other application of that damage descriptor besides Damage Reduction?

I know some oozes split if they are hit by certain damage types.

[TuggyNE]

Spell specifies that the damage is Piercing. Is there any other application of that damage descriptor besides Damage Reduction?

Ooze splitting, and perhaps some few creatures that are immune to certain damage types.

[Lord Vukodlak]

The question is, is the damage done by the spell or by physical objects that are made to attack via spell?
I.e. something similar to Sword of Dancing.

Since the spell in question is of Creation school, I'd say it creates actual quills and makes them do an area attack, so DR certainly stops it. Source of damage is not the Quill Blast spell, but each individual nonmagical Quill.

The spell is subject to SR, so the Quill's can't be nonmagical.


Spell specifies that the damage is Piercing. Is there any other application of that damage descriptor besides Damage Reduction?Aside from Oozes and a few other creatures who might generate special effects when hit by certain damage types. Objects can take damage differently depending on the damage type. Such as DM ruling that an arrow will never harm a big tree it will just stick into it.


By RAW spells ignore it even if they do physical damage, but given that psionics got saddled with that restriction I encourage your group to apply it to spells as well. The psionic crystal shard powers ignore spell/power resistance this Quill Blast does not so theirs a difference.