Warlock as a Necromancer (lvl 6)

[SliceandDiceKid]

Still hooked on warlocks right now. Wondering how well a lvl 6 Warlock with the dead walk would play out. I'd love to find ways to abuse the heck out of undead. Also, I should be able to control 24 HD of creatures. That's CRAZY!

Here's where I'm at

Lvl 6 strong-heart halfling
Stats
8/18/14/14/12/14

Feats planned: corpsecrafter, deadly chill, craft wondrous item, leadership?

Skills UMD, bluff, intimidate, arcana

Invocations are swim the Styx, beguiling influence, spiderwalk, and the dead walk.

I'll have a greater chasuble for 5d6 EB, healing belt, a few scrolls to boost ac and to heal, and called quick release chain shirt so I get to yell, "it's morphin' time!"
That leaves me with a few hundred gp for onyx gems.

Is there a more effective way of doing this? And as a DM, would anyone let me go to a cemetery and start raising dead (with societal repercussions, of course)?

[Thiyr]

Biggest issue I'm aware of with a warlock necro is how limited you are. You have one invocation for making weaker undead, but no way to make or control more than that barring UMD. That said, if skeletons and zombies will be enough, it can be useful.

Remember you don't need onyx for temporary minions. If you're fighting multiple enemies you don't want to save for later, take advantaMIC Easiest way to do the traditional "every man we lose makes the enemy stronger" vibe. Not having a limiter is the warlocks only real strength, so find ways to use it! Carry bodies in a bag of holding (or if alignment allows, an Enveloping Pit from MIC) if you can't buy onyx. take that feat that lets undead you create explode when they (re)die to take more use out of disposable troops.

On a similar but unrelated-to-topic note, is this game around lots of water? Swimming the styx is an odd choice if not, because you get very few invocations and want to have as generally-useful ones as possible. I'd reccomend Baleful Utterance as a great utility ability instead, personally.

[docnessuno]

Still hooked on warlocks right now. Wondering how well a lvl 6 Warlock with the dead walk would play out. I'd love to find ways to abuse the heck out of undead. Also, I should be able to control 24 HD of creatures. That's CRAZY!

Here's where I'm at

Lvl 6 strong-heart halfling
Stats
8/18/14/14/12/14

Feats planned: corpsecrafter, deadly chill, craft wondrous item, leadership?

Skills UMD, bluff, intimidate, arcana

Invocations are swim the Styx, beguiling influence, spiderwalk, and the dead walk.

I'll have a greater chasuble for 5d6 EB, healing belt, a few scrolls to boost ac and to heal, and called quick release chain shirt so I get to yell, "it's morphin' time!"
That leaves me with a few hundred gp for onyx gems.

Is there a more effective way of doing this? And as a DM, would anyone let me go to a cemetery and start raising dead (with societal repercussions, of course)?

I would switch Leadership with Undead leadership to go with the theme, and deadly chill with destruction retribution (moreso if you are either willing to delay craft wondrous items to pick up tomb-tainted soul or to go necropolitan halfing)

[SliceandDiceKid]

I would switch Leadership with Undead leadership to go with the theme, and deadly chill with destruction retribution (moreso if you are either willing to delay craft wondrous items to pick up tomb-tainted soul or to go necropolitan halfing)

My reason for craft wondrous item is to obtain the greater chasuble and other magic items by way of creation rather than the +25k gp I don't have. With it I can stretch the hell out of my 13k by requiring skill and alignments to reduce costs by 40% of usual creation expenses.

I thought about undead leadership, but There aren't any appealing options for lvl 4 cohorts that are undead. Any cool or really useful suggestions would be appreciated. Necro halfling for 5/slashing DR and the d12 HD? Could I chalk up the lost level as backstory and still be lvl 6? Also that doesn't burn a feat, right?

[SliceandDiceKid]

Also destruction retribution. Oh my God...

Amazing. Even a horde of kobolds would be GREAT!!!!!

[docnessuno]

A Necropolitan with Class levels works wonders as a cohort.

Necropolitan does not waste a feat, off the top of my memory would cost you 3k gold and you would lose a level (but since that can be done as soon as level 2/3, you could argue with your DM that's it's actually just 2/3K xp). It gives you the Undead type, with all the related immunities, plus a couple other minor features, no DR.

[Socratov]

You know, if you can find it, reanimate at least a 6 HD skeleton or zombie (depending on what you want to do with it) to function as your personal guard and servant. The next 12 HD you want to make permanent and the last 6 HD you want to reserve for anything you find in battles for either temporary purposes or for that rare find you want so bad as your Hctib (and not lose precious minions as you claim it). Oh, and portable holes are excellent to keep undead in.

Oh, and you won't need Swim the Styx, you have minions to help you cross rivers. One of the very best least invocations is Baleful Utterance. Shatter at will? Golden.

[Donny_Green]

sounds like destructive retribution is the way to go. If you can.. try to kill focus in on one or two enemies, and take them down quick.. than raise them up as zombies to go explode against there comrades.

Oh course I haven't done to much research on the practicality of that strategy, but it sounds fun enough to check up on.

[SliceandDiceKid]

You know, if you can find it, reanimate at least a 6 HD skeleton or zombie (depending on what you want to do with it) to function as your personal guard and servant. The next 12 HD you want to make permanent and the last 6 HD you want to reserve for anything you find in battles for either temporary purposes or for that rare find you want so bad as your Hctib (and not lose precious minions as you claim it). Oh, and portable holes are excellent to keep undead in.

Oh, and you won't need Swim the Styx, you have minions to help you cross rivers. One of the very best least invocations is Baleful Utterance. Shatter at will? Golden.

K. I really just thought breathe water could be funny at times (dunked in a horse trough for blasphemy or thrown into a river in a potato sack).

[Donny_Green]

K. I really just thought breathe water could be funny at times (dunked in a horse trough for blasphemy or thrown into a river in a potato sack).
I think for over all cost the ring of water breathing might be cheaper. And if you have the time, a scroll would by far be the cheapest way to take care of that.

Remember at level 4 a warlock gets Deceive Item. as long as your UMD is 10 + spell level you can guarantee a successful casting. (I've learned with my own warlock never to underestimate this ability)

[Fouredged Sword]

On a warlock, I really like wands for emergency spells. Quickdraw means they are always at your fingertips and crafting means they are affordable.

MIC has a fairly cheep amulet (Periapt of the sullen sea, 6000gp) that lets you hold your breath for 12 hours. Nice as it also allows you to ignore effects like poison gas and other hazards that water breathing does not. Pair it with 2 auran masks a day and you can survive underwater for a reasonable cost (the masks let you breath for a few min, resetting your ability to hold your breath.

[Socratov]

K. I really just thought breathe water could be funny at times (dunked in a horse trough for blasphemy or thrown into a river in a potato sack).


I think for over all cost the ring of water breathing might be cheaper. And if you have the time, a scroll would by far be the cheapest way to take care of that.

Remember at level 4 a warlock gets Deceive Item. as long as your UMD is 10 + spell level you can guarantee a successful casting. (I've learned with my own warlock never to underestimate this ability)

Indeed. Shatter at will is a much more powerful and useful invocation (one you can take at lvl 1 even). When you have wealth enough to buy an item of flight you can see to trading in spiderclimb for See the Unseen.

[SliceandDiceKid]

On a warlock, I really like wands for emergency spells. Quickdraw means they are always at your fingertips and crafting means they are affordable.

MIC has a fairly cheep amulet (Periapt of the sullen sea, 6000gp) that lets you hold your breath for 12 hours. Nice as it also allows you to ignore effects like poison gas and other hazards that water breathing does not. Pair it with 2 auran masks a day and you can survive underwater for a reasonable cost (the masks let you breath for a few min, resetting your ability to hold your breath.

Ok! Ok! I'll get rid of it! Haha

I used baleful utterance before. Just looking for interesting things to do.

[Donny_Green]

Ok! Ok! I'll get rid of it! Haha

I used baleful utterance before. Just looking for interesting things to do.

You could always bring up your spot and search, or give yourself dark vision and the ability to see invisible creatures.

I'm not saying these are better than BU... but still pretty useful for rounding out a character.

[Socratov]

You could always bring up your spot and search, or give yourself dark vision and the ability to see invisible creatures.

I'm not saying these are better than BU... but still pretty useful for rounding out a character.

See the Unseen is great as well. Oh and if in E6 you get feats instead of levels then Extra Invocation will really be nice (even if you can only take least invocations)

[Donny_Green]

And may I also suggest a Rod of Eldrich power CM 4000 GP, with an eldrich glaive DrM blast shape. It looks like a light saber and acts like a melee eldrich blast aught to.

[turbo164]

A lot of necromancy ended up happening in "The Second Tale" (starts in post#5)

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=116836

Stories are worth reading whether you're Deadwalking or not, imo :smallwink: But you might get a few inspirations.

[AkbarTheGreat]

I'm not sure if Fell Animate works with invocations, but if it does there is a really nice ability to have. (if I were DMing I'd allow it, but that's me)

[SliceandDiceKid]

I'm not sure if Fell Animate works with invocations, but if it does there is a really nice ability to have. (if I were DMing I'd allow it, but that's me)

Great idea, but I wouldn't allow myself to use it since its meta magic and pretty powerful at that.

[SliceandDiceKid]

A lot of necromancy ended up happening in "The Second Tale" (starts in post#5)

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=116836

Stories are worth reading whether you're Deadwalking or not, imo :smallwink: But you might get a few inspirations.

Wow. I LOVE this.

[SliceandDiceKid]

Ok, so now I'm curious, if I grab 2 flaws and bind vestige, then practiced binder, am I right in assuming naberius is my best way to go? 10 on diplomacy/bluff is REALLY STRONG. Puts me at 27 bluff and 18 diplomacy. Also the untrained skills are nice. I could also see sprint and feather fall from Ronove being extremely helpful in a pinch.

[Socratov]

Ok, so now I'm curious, if I grab 2 flaws and bind vestige, then practiced binder, am I right in assuming naberius is my best way to go? 10 on diplomacy/bluff is REALLY STRONG. Puts me at 27 bluff and 18 diplomacy. Also the untrained skills are nice. I could also see sprint and feather fall from Ronove being extremely helpful in a pinch.

The thing is, if you plan on going necro you have better uses for feats, most notable all of them in Libris Mortis (the DnD Necronomicon if anything is, if necromancy is your thing this is your bible), allowing you to make harder, better, faster and stronger undead.

If you really want to make a great E6 necromancer you might want to ask your DM to have Practised Spellcaster apply to invoking classes (or make a practised invoker class) and take 1 lvl of Dread Necro.

OR

have the 1 level of dread necro count towards invoking instead of spellcasting.

That way you ahve a way to 'heal' your undead and rebuke any you meet. and still get The Dead Walk invocation. If he doesn't want to allow these mods stay full warlock and pick up wands of harm.

Further nice feats to get are:

Corpsecrafter (more str is more dmg, more hp means they last longer)
Bolster resistance (turning resistance is fan-copulation-tastic)
Nimble Bones (more initiative+more move speed, this is the afore mentioned 'faster' part)
Necromantic Might (makes your undead more powerful near you)
Necromantic Presence (yet even more turning resistance)
Destructive REtribution (when you lose your precious undead they go with a bang of negative energy healing nearby undead and harming your enemies)


Now on to racial stuff: you will want to become undead yourself, however you don't want LA, and certainly you don't want racial HD. So, you become Necropolitan. It costs 1000 XP and some money (you can do this form lvl 3 onward). If you take Destructive Retribution, you will notice how you can heal yourself by destroying one of your undead and standing next to the undead going bang.

Oh, and for the rest, act like in the campaignjournal linked in this thread. It is glorious and one of the better uses of undead minions I have seen. Remember, when facing an obstacle, ask yourself: WWXD (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0192.html)? Walk around with scrolls of desecrate, harm and lots of Onyx.

You know, I almost want to play this myself :smallamused::smallyuk::smallwink:

I'd play him/her/it LE focusing on efficiency.

[SliceandDiceKid]

thething is, if you plan on going necro you have better uses for feats, most notable all of them in Libris Mortis (the DnD Necronomicon if anything is), allowing you to make harder, better, faster and stronger undead.

If you really want to make a great E6 necromancer you might want to ask your DM to have Practised Spellcaster apply to invoking classes (or make a practised invoker class) and take 1 lvl of Dread Necro.

OR

have the 1 level of dread necro count towards invoking instead of spellcasting.

That way you ahve a way to 'heal' your undead and rebuke any you meet. and still get The Dead Walk invocation. If he doesn't want to allow these mods stay full warlock and pick up wands of harm.

Further nice feats to get are:

Corpsecrafter (more str is more dmg, more hp means they last longer)
Bolster resistance (turning resistance is fan-copulation-tastic)
Nimble Bones (more initiative+more move speed, this is the afore mentioned 'faster' part)
Necromantic Might (makes your undead more powerful near you)
Necromantic Presence (yet even more turning resistance)
Destructive REtribution (when you lose your precious undead they go with a bang of negative energy healing nearby undead and harming your enemies)


Now on to racial stuff: you will want to become undead yourself, however you don't want LA, and certainly you don't want racial HD. So, you become Necropolitan. It costs 1000 XP and some money (you can do this form lvl 3 onward). If you take Destructive Retribution, you will notice how you can heal yourself by destroying one of your undead and standing next to the undead going bang.

Oh, and for the rest, act like in the campaignjournal linked in this thread. It is glorious and one of the better uses of undead minions I have seen. Remember, when facing an obstacle, ask yourself: WWXD (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0192.html)? Walk around with scrolls of desecrate, harm and lots of Onyx.

You know, I almost want to play this myself :smallamused::smallyuk::smallwink:

I'd play him/her/it LE focusing on efficiency.

I actually did this last night as a DM. The exploding enemies were great. I posted notes in a thread titled: DM recap. :)

[Socratov]

I actually did this last night as a DM. The exploding enemies were great. I posted notes in a thread titled: DM recap. :)

Could you link that? I'm quite interested to read it...

Oh, and btw, I forgot the Deadly Shill feat: it helps your undead deal more damage with their natural attacks (or goold ol' fisticuffs)

[SliceandDiceKid]

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=17223233#post17223233

[Bobbyjackcorn]

If you are going for a necromancer, keep in mind that Baleful Utterance is especially useful to them. BU allows you to break opponents' armor, weapons, items, carts, anything really. A quick disarm from one of your skeletons sends their blade flying, and a Baleful Utterance automatically shatters it before they can pick it up to give it their saves. Not to mention, Undead are considered objects for the sakes of any spell. If you accidentally make too many zombies and one goes rogue, all you need to do is baleful utterance that sucker and he bursts like a blood-sack. Shatter is invaluable.

[Socratov]

So, I've been toying around a bit with a build:

===========================================

Mavra the Neck-Romancer,

LE Necropolitan Human (Undead, Augmented) (achieved at 18k XP, template inherited at lvl 3)

28 PB:

str 8
dex 14
con --
int 14
wis 11
cha 17+1=18

skills: synergy focus on social skills, knowledge arcana 9, religion 5, umd 9, spellcraft 5 (abuse that synergy stuffs)

a metric crapton of Black Onyx and 5 Desecrate scrolls, Spellsight Spectacles (moar scroll powah!), Spool of Endless rope (never know when you need it), 1500 gp to spare (maybe invest in a saddle for a dire bat or zombiedragon).

(wishlist: rod of Undead Mastery) (3k gold spent on necropolitan ritual)

Invocations: Balefull Utterance, The Dead Walk, Spiderclimb, See the Unseen

Feats:

Human: Corpsecrafter
1st: Nimble Bones (assuming racial feats come first and then class feats)
3rd: Bolster Resistance
6th: Destruction Retribution (ref half DC=15)

Languages: Common, Draconic (language of magic), Infernal (langauge of LE)

==============================================

So, if your PB ishigher, fill up int and dex (I have always loved skillpoints but hitting stuff is nice as well). With a wall of undead in front of me (and the ability to walk up walls) I should be safe without much problems (and else I have d12 HD which should be able to soak enough). Will invest in boosting saves though... I have space for 24 HD of undead (which I can make 4 times with my current stash of gems). It might be nice to get a couple of scrolls of gentle repose so you can transport a couple of bodies you really want but can't make yet becuase of morals or some other stupid reason. As for self healing: Baleful Utterance+skeleton+Destruction Retribution=healing, especially after a fight (replenish undead, raise temporarily, shatter, hug the blast).

so... Whatcha think?

[SliceandDiceKid]

So, I've been toying around a bit with a build:

===========================================

Mavra the Neck-Romancer,

LE Necropolitan Human (Undead, Augmented) (achieved at 18k XP, template inherited at lvl 3)

28 PB:

str 8
dex 14
con --
int 14
wis 11
cha 17+1=18

skills: synergy focus on social skills, knowledge arcana 9, religion 5, umd 9, spellcraft 5 (abuse that synergy stuffs)

a metric crapton of Black Onyx and 5 Desecrate scrolls, Spellsight Spectacles (moar scroll powah!), Spool of Endless rope (never know when you need it), 1500 gp to spare (maybe invest in a saddle for a dire bat or zombiedragon).

(wishlist: rod of Undead Mastery) (3k gold spent on necropolitan ritual)

Invocations: Balefull Utterance, The Dead Walk, Spiderclimb, See the Unseen

Feats:

Human: Corpsecrafter
1st: Nimble Bones (assuming racial feats come first and then class feats)
3rd: Bolster Resistance
6th: Destruction Retribution (ref half DC=15)

Languages: Common, Draconic (language of magic), Infernal (langauge of LE)

==============================================

So, if your PB ishigher, fill up int and dex (I have always loved skillpoints but hitting stuff is nice as well). With a wall of undead in front of me (and the ability to walk up walls) I should be safe without much problems (and else I have d12 HD which should be able to soak enough). Will invest in boosting saves though... I have space for 24 HD of undead (which I can make 4 times with my current stash of gems). It might be nice to get a couple of scrolls of gentle repose so you can transport a couple of bodies you really want but can't make yet becuase of morals or some other stupid reason. As for self healing: Baleful Utterance+skeleton+Destruction Retribution=healing, especially after a fight (replenish undead, raise temporarily, shatter, hug the blast).

so... Whatcha think?


You sir, are a kind soul. I will probably use this exact build. My God.

[Socratov]

You sir, are a kind soul. I will probably use this exact build. My God.

Have fun, I know I will. (by the way, I intend to use the name :smallwink:)

[Ansem]

Go DN/Warlock Theurge (miss out in the 8th capstone unfortunately) but it'll still give you awesome necromancy stuff and your Warlock flavour, PLUS! SAD since both use Charisma.

[Snowbluff]

If you can cheese your way into Anima Mage without a binder level, you can work your way up to having Rebuking from a vestige, Neberius (sp?).