Miko - Blackguard?

[Jarelk]

We all see it. Miko becoming a crazy obsessed fallen paladin, killing uncles and accusing Stick Orders. It's obvious she's already commiting evil deeds.

And now. Miko, the blackguard? Will it happen? She is still worshipping the holy gods, but how long until she steps over to an evil god?

I personally hope it won't happen, but if it did, I'd say Miko is going to accuse every good thing in the world of being evil, and that she uses some excuse like "I chose a god with the requiredpower to repel the evil Sapphire Guard" to become a blackguard.

Oh, and if this thread already exists, or violates some rules I overlooked, delete it. But inform me about the other thread/what rule I broke.

[Adeptus]

She's definitely fallen, and not so much down as off the cliff. Miko is so crazy she can end up a Blackguard and still feel she's good. Remember, she is special.

[Green Bean]

She's definitely fallen, and not so much down as off the cliff. Miko is so crazy she can end up a Blackguard and still feel she's good. Remember, she is special.

I'm not so sure you can be a delusional Blackguard. I mean, doesn't it say that you have to embrace Evil? I mean, it would kind of be like a charater going nuts and becoming a paladin.

[MinusInnocence]

All she needs is to bump into Sabine (without it erupting into bloodshed)somewhere during the chaos of Xykon's army breaking down the gates and voila, she's made peaceful contact with an Evil Outsider. That's really all she needs, that funny business about switching gods and stuff isn't such a big deal.

Anyway, it would be much more interesting if she still served the Twelve Gods of Azure City but believed the whole Sapphire Guard and its aristocracy had become corrupted both by the Order of the Stick and Xykon's horde. At that point, Evil may be her only tool left to "make things right."

All of that said, I don't think it will happen. If I had to guess, I would say the tailspin will continue until she hits rock bottom and, out of desperation, attacks Xykon (because Roy is clearly beyond her in a stand-up fight). She will of course be smoked like sweet sweet barbecue, and die in Roy's arms, finally repenting. Sappy and maybe predictable but no moreso than the Blackguard thing.

[Angela Christine]

She could become a blackguard, but at this point I think she is equally likely to become completely catatonic. Or perhaps have a fugue, forget she was ever a paladin, and go become a turnip farmer.

[Lord Zentei]

No question she is committing evil at this stage (as even her fanclubbers stated when she struck down Shojo. Heck, even TheKOT and Alfryd voted that she deserved to have her powers revoked in that poll that went up).

Is she "really" switched alignments? Well, from a literary standpoint, probably yes at this stage. As for the mechanics standpoint: when she struck down Shojo, I commented that a single act, though enough to revoke paladin status is normally not enough to change alignments; that would have to be determined by what followed. Well, here we are, then.


All she needs is to bump into Sabine (without it erupting into bloodshed)somewhere during the chaos of Xykon's army breaking down the gates and voila, she's made peaceful contact with an Evil Outsider. That's really all she needs, that funny business about switching gods and stuff isn't such a big deal.

Such peaceful contact with Sabine seems quite probable at this point: she is about to be tossed into the dungeon, where the Linear Guild is already being taken as well.


the tailspin will continue until she hits rock bottom and, out of desperation, attacks Xykon (because Roy is clearly beyond her in a stand-up fight). She will of course be smoked like sweet sweet barbecue, and die in Roy's arms, finally repenting. Sappy and maybe predictable but no moreso than the Blackguard thing.

Agreed that things will get worse yet.

[Mjoellnir]

I see only one thing standing between Miko the crazy Fallen Paladin and Miko the Blackguard. If she was a Blackguard she had to yell:

:miko: "SMITE GOOD!"

I don't know how that should work with the self-proclaimed chosen of the twelve gods.:smallbiggrin:

[NecroPaladin]

I'm not so sure you can be a delusional Blackguard. I mean, doesn't it say that you have to embrace Evil? I mean, it would kind of be like a charater going nuts and becoming a paladin.

Well, she would be embracing evil, but to her it would be good.

[Bluelantern]

She is nuts, so she could totally become a blackguard "for the greater good". I was thinking that....
*spoilers*
She will be send to the same prinson than Nale and Sabine, and they will trick/convince her that they are good (they are enemies of the OOTS) and to join them.

A former paladin, monk-blackguard = BELKAR PERFECT OPPOSITE!

[dani_carip]

Hmm...I'm still rooting for a Beigeguard Miko ;-)

[Demented]

Beigeguard? Tell me, just how do you intend to stat THAT out? O.o

[Chikin'Soup]

I'm voting for Vigilante (CA), it's her style.

SMITE GUILTY!!!


Either that, or she goes Blackguard, don't forget that the prereqs. say "Any Non-Good".

Either way, go LN Miko!

[Lord Zentei]

Beigeguard? Tell me, just how do you intend to stat THAT out? O.o

Look at her signiature quote. :smallwink:

[Dalmarric]

One thing to remember, is that Giant is not required to play exactly by the rules: this isn't a lisenced D&D product, by any means. If he chooses to have her go Blackguard, he's free to fiddle with the details.

[Grasilich]

I think Miko's path to Blackguard is fairly obvious... I mean, it's really quite possible that Sabine will be in the cell right next to her.

Blackguard Miko will be even more powerful than Paladin Miko. She can trade in 10 levels of Paladin and become a max level Blackguard instantly. She'd have more or less everything she had before (except now she'll have Smite Good, which is more useful to her, considering most of the OotS is Good), 3d6 Sneak Attack and probably still have enough left-over Ex-Paladin levels to get herself Lay on Hands. And she can call a Fiendish Horse to replace Windstriker.

I hope she goes Blackguard. It'll be awesome.

[Adeptus]

I'm not so sure you can be a delusional Blackguard. I mean, doesn't it say that you have to embrace Evil? I mean, it would kind of be like a charater going nuts and becoming a paladin.

"embracing evil" pretty much means you are mentally ill by definition. Belkar, redcloak and other evil-aligned characters in Rich's world don't seem to be strange serial killers who "embrace evil", rather than people whose morals and motivations qualify them as evil.

Miko's brand of "smite the wicked" (with her various easy definitions of wicked) is evil enough in my book.

[Adrius]

I see only one thing standing between Miko the crazy Fallen Paladin and Miko the Blackguard. If she was a Blackguard she had to yell:

:miko: "SMITE GOOD!"

I don't know how that should work with the self-proclaimed chosen of the twelve gods.:smallbiggrin:
One must remember she has already fully admitted that the (most of) The Order of the Stick register as good and that she believes, regardless of their alignments, they are agents of evil. I don't see her having much problem in her current mental state with using Smite Good just to take out people she thinks are "Good, but .. really evil!"

[belboz]

You know, until 409, I'd have said the chances of Miko becoming a Blackguard were very low. I mean, she was certainly committing evil, and the Gods certainly agreed--hence the fall. But it seemed, before that, that she was not so much evil as simply crazy. Deluded, paranoid, quick to fasten on an idee fixe, but she was clearly trying to be good.

In 409, though, I don't think crazy cuts it any more. "I know that I am special, the most powerful ... wouldn't do this to ME without a reason ... pursue the holy plan the gods have for me ... "

That kind of arrogance and self-centeredness is classic villain stuff. She's really not doing any of this for the Good (even in an incredibly misguided way); she's doing it for the glory of Miko.

She has a little ways to go before she *embraces* evil, but I can see it happening. "The gods struck me down; they must themselves be corrupt. I will work tirelessly, even with the hells, for their downfall."

[Ampersand]

Such peaceful contact with Sabine seems quite probable at this point: she is about to be tossed into the dungeon, where the Linear Guild is already being taken as well.

Technically speaking, the fiend has to be specifically summoned for the purposes of such contact. It's not explicitly stated as such, but I've always read that in the "dark pact" sorta way, meaning that there's really no way you can be tricked into it. And Sabine is on the material plane as a result of a Plane Shift spell, not a summoning.

Yeah, yeah, Giant's comic, he can do what we wants. Just sayin'.

And per Hinjo's comments in 409, Miko is going in the Box, not general lockup with the Linear Guild and Illusion Belkar.

[Axl_Rose]

I think if the Giant were to read these forums, he might (I could be entirely wrong) try to appease as many of his fans as possible.

In that case, I wonder if it's at all possible that he has Miko Split into two distinct characters. One atones and becomes a weaker Paladin, while the other becomes a powerful blackguard, the embodiment of her anger and wrath.

[Krytha]

Should we start placing bets as to how long it's going to take Miko to be full blackguard? I bet a month of comics.

[Ampersand]

I think if the Giant were to read these forums, he might (I could be entirely wrong) try to appease as many of his fans as possible.

In that case, I wonder if it's at all possible that he has Miko Split into two distinct characters. One atones and becomes a weaker Paladin, while the other becomes a powerful blackguard, the embodiment of her anger and wrath.
Hinjo: "Well, how was I supposed to know that Uncle had a custom made Mirror of Opposition in his closet?" :smallbiggrin:

[Wyborn]

She could become a blackguard, but at this point I think she is equally likely to become completely catatonic. Or perhaps have a fugue, forget she was ever a paladin, and go become a turnip farmer.

Word. I could not agree more.

Seriously, though, Blackguard...don't see it?

Delusional Chaotic Evil Fighter-Without-Bonus-Feats? Now that could happen!

[The Extinguisher]

For the last time, Fallen Paladin =/= Blackguard!

In order to become a Blackguard, you need peaceful contact with an evil outsider. That doesn't mean a simple "hello" between the two! It mean the former paladin seeks out, or meets the outsider and they discuss evil and whatnot. It requires the ex-paladin to embrace evil.

The only possible way for Miko to become a blackguard is if she snaps, calls the gods tainted, and starts to think good is evil and evil is good.

[Bosswald]

[QUOTE=Ampersand;1950073]Technically speaking, the fiend has to be specifically summoned for the purposes of such contact. It's not explicitly stated as such, but I've always read that in the "dark pact" sorta way, meaning that there's really no way you can be tricked into it. And Sabine is on the material plane as a result of a Plane Shift spell, not a summoning.

And I quote: "the character must have made peaceful contact with an evil outsider who was summoned by him or someone else." There's been nothing actually stating that :nale: didn't originally summon :sabine: to the Prime Material. Granted, :sabine:'s been bopping back and forth on her own, but her first time could have been different. And yeah, I agree that it really does read like they should be summoned for the specific purpose, but it's not actually stated, and the devil is in the details. (literally, in this case.)

More toublesome in my mind is the fact that several of the Blackguard's best powers revolve around controlling the undead (Command Undead, Undead Companion), something that :miko: is never gonna be down with. At least, not until she becomes really okay with being evil, and that's not something I see happening particularly soon. :miko: needs to steep in the dastardlyness of her actions, and commit a few more murders, maybe and atrocity, before she really sinks to that level.

Don't get me wrong, I fully expect her to do it, but given her characterization, no-one should expect her to turn into Lord Soth overnight. That took years of preparation and planning by evil dieties, and culminated with a world-shattering apocalypse....

You know what? Five'll get you ten :miko: ends up leading :xykon:'s armies after the siege of Azure City.

Yeah, I'm having too much fun with the heads.

[Callista]

It's possible, but I sure hope it doesn't happen. It's too cliched. I guess Rich could make it funny despite that, but Miko's just too serious a character to be used for humor purposes.

I wonder, though, if both things could happen--Miko as a Blackguard, AND Miko's redemption? Blackguard is an awfully far way to fall, though, and it takes a lot to recover from something like that. Still, it could be interesting.

I have to admit Miko is a lot like my own evil twin... what I could've been, and still could be if I don't watch myself. Her flaws are the same as mine. So I suppose I really want her to recover and return to some flavor of Good, because it'll be encouraging to me. That's really a selfish reason to want an author you don't know to change the plot of a story he owns and you don't, though; so I'll leave it up to Rich. Even if she does go Blackguard, I guess I'll like her as a villain. She's just too cool not to be a good villain.

[Bosswald]

dammit, that quote thing didn't work right.

And as for actively seeking out Sabine, if Miko gets chucked into the cell next to the LG, and she and Sabine have a friendly conversation about "ends justifying the means" and such, I think that would fufill you requirement. Though, not to be a rules-lawyer, but the description for Blackguard doesn't mention any specifics about the meeting.

[Lord Zentei]

Technically speaking, the fiend has to be specifically summoned for the purposes of such contact. It's not explicitly stated as such, but I've always read that in the "dark pact" sorta way, meaning that there's really no way you can be tricked into it. And Sabine is on the material plane as a result of a Plane Shift spell, not a summoning.

Yeah, yeah, Giant's comic, he can do what we wants. Just sayin'.

Point. Though if they get out of those cells, Sabine can contact her superiors, right? Many fiends can summon more fiends too (though Sabine might not if she is a custom fiend). If not, Nale might be able to.

In any case, she can attempt to win her trust for later.


And per Hinjo's comments in 409, Miko is going in the Box, not general lockup with the Linear Guild and Illusion Belkar.

Maybe they are short on prison space. :smallwink:

...

Nah, never mind.

[The Extinguisher]

The outsider needs to be summoned. And since Sabine was sent, and travels via Planeshift, it doesn't count.

And it doesn't matter if she was summoned before, the last time she traveled to this realm, she Plane-shifted, therefore wasn't summoned.

[Demented]

Maybe they are short on prison space. :smallwink:

...

Nah, never mind.

I can't help but think you're suggesting something you probably aren't and really shouldn't be anyhow.
Hinjo's had enough trouble with Miko as it is. :smallwink:

[Lord Zentei]

I can't help but think you're suggesting something you probably aren't and really shouldn't be anyhow.
Hinjo's had enough trouble with Miko as it is. :smallwink:

Whatever do you mean? I'm the paragon of innocence, here.

No seriously, you're reading too much into it. :smalltongue:

[donkyhotay]

Xykon has been scrying miko to find the location of the gate, I'm curious how he is going to react to this development with miko.

[Ampersand]

Point. Though if they get out of those cells, Sabine can contact her superiors, right? Many fiends can summon more fiends too (though Sabine might not if she is a custom fiend). If not, Nale might be able to.

In any case, she can attempt to win her trust for later.

That is definitely probable. But it's not going to be:

:sabine: Hello, cellmate. What're you in for?
:miko: Silence.
:Twelve Gods: ZOMG BLACKGUARD!


Maybe they are short on prison space. :smallwink:

"Laundry time, ladies"


Xykon has been scrying miko to find the location of the gate, I'm curious how he is going to react to this development with miko.

:xykon: Well, crap. Not that this hasn't been entertaining, but that doesn't do me any good. Wish she had been able to smack Aquablade around a little more, though.

:xykon: Guess we do this the old fashioned way. Redcloak, order the hobgoblins to move forwards.
:redcloak: We don't have any ladders to get over the walls, sir.
:xykon: They can walk up gentle slopes, can't they?
:redcloak: *sigh* Of course, sir. FORWARD!

[Jarelk]

I think if the Giant were to read these forums, he might (I could be entirely wrong) try to appease as many of his fans as possible.

In the FAQ I can't find right now, Rich said he hated the polls on forums, and sometimes changes the plot just to prove the forummers wrong, so don't neccesarily think that:smalltongue:.

Now reading all your opinions, I think Miko will start of as a Fallen Paladin chasing the "Good who are Evil", and then goes Blackguard once she fails once more.

[Angela Christine]

Now reading all your opinions, I think Miko will start of as a Fallen Paladin chasing the "Good who are Evil", and then goes Blackguard once she fails once more.


That could be interesting. Miko as judge for all of the Insufficiently Good. Miko believes that sleeping in a ditch with sharp stones for pillows and lichen to eat is more Good than staying in an Inn. With just a little bit more crazy (which she has now) she could easily convince herself that anyone staying at an Inn has proven themselves to be not Good enough, and deserves to be punished.

Kind of like Futurama's robot Santa: his standards were set too high so he judges everyone to be Naughty.

Miko's experiences lead her to set the standard for Good so high that almost no one qualifies, not even most paladins, possibly not even the Gods themselves. Anyone who isn't living in miserable, abject poverty clearly isn't trying hard enough, and needs to be punished for their own good. She'd have all the justification she needs to commit atrocities greater than Xykon or Nale would ever think of doing: Nale is willing to make other people suffer if it helps him, Miko would make people suffer because she thinks it is good for them to suffer. She'd be doing them a favor, and if they don't recognise and appreciate her help, well, that just shows that they need more of her "help".

[Grey Watcher]

Is the cell they're all headed for at this point Anti-Magic? Because Sabine might shapeshift into something angelic looking in order to use Miko's delusion to help her into the Blackguard class.

[MReav]

:xykon: Well, crap. Not that this hasn't been entertaining, but that doesn't do me any good. Wish she had been able to smack Aquablade around a little more, though.

:xykon: Guess we do this the old fashioned way. Redcloak, order the hobgoblins to move forwards.
:redcloak: We don't have any ladders to get over the walls, sir.
:xykon: They can walk up gentle slopes, can't they?
:redcloak: *sigh* Of course, sir. FORWARD!

LOL, though Redcloak would be more *smirks*

[Bronzeevil]

Hmm...I'm still rooting for a Beigeguard Miko ;-)
Greyguards are in the new book (released last month) Scoundrel. I myself do not have the book, but I do know that by level 10 they don't need to atone to keep their abilities. To lose their abilities before level 10, they have to just switch alignment from whatever they started with.

[Miklus]

Oh, it's gonna happen! At least I hope it will, if only to make a truly scary villian. Powerful enough to take on the intire OotS and just mad enough to do it.

It could happen, because we have Sabrine at hand. But is Miko really ready to embrace evil? I don't think so.

Miko is mentally ill. Her madness is twofold:

1) She has delusions of grandour. She thinks she is special, a favorded of the gods, better than others, always right and so forth.

2) She has delusions of persecutory. She thinks the OotS is out to get her. When she meets Xykon, she pool them together. Is all a big conspiracy against her. Then Shojo get sucked into it as well, quickly followed by Hinjo .

If you keep this in mind, you can see her mental condition build up over many strips. It is brought on by her upbringing, stress and many unlucky coincedenses.

But she still belive she is fighting for the greater good. The only reason she would become a blackguard would be to stop Xykon. She would sacrifice herself, become a martyr to do it.

:miko: "I am the chosen one, I alone can stop Xykon from reaching the gate, I alone can save the world". "I must become powerful to do it, even if it costs my life ... or soul".

But even then, would the evil gods help her by granting her powers? Would they like to see the world destroyed? Probably not. Would they at least like to see Xykon in charge? Yes they would, then evil would rule the world. But the evil gods might see Xykon's plan as too dangerous to themselves. If his experimens with the gate go wrong, not even the gods are safe.

If an evil god came to Miko and said: "You are the chosen one! Here, I grant you these powers so you may stop Xykon and his minions!", I think she would jump onboard. It fits with her delusions.

[innk]

About the outsider stuff, yea, ok sabine wasnt summoned..
But what about the thing in the darkness? :o

I mean, Xykon was scrying Miko, so he could be doing it now too and seeing whats happening there.. he could think that miko as a blackguard would be a really, really big problem for the OoTS, and its really gonna be by the way.. he could be making a plan to make this peaceful contact, you know all he needs to do is tell TTID to go play some thog-like game with her or something =p

I dont know.. the thog-like-game was a joke, but I belive that a situation needed to miko change her mind, start to think that everything good is corrupt and actually evil, including the 12 gods is actually possible to be forged by Xykon..
Probably he wont be like "zomg, i want her to be a blackguard", but bring her to his side is something really possible to think.. remember all that starwars conversation they had? "I see much angry in you" or something? So.. =p

Lol.. just thinking :)

[Karkadinn]

Whatever do you mean? I'm the paragon of innocence, here.

No seriously, you're reading too much into it. :smalltongue:

Misinterpretation or not, guys, I'm grateful for the mental image. That's the funniest Order of the Stick-related picture in my head I've ever had that wasn't something directly out of the comic. ;) I mean, seriously. I know the author won't do it, but if he did, it would be *so* *freaking* *hilarious*.... :smallbiggrin:

[Kyace]

And she can call a Fiendish Horse to replace Windstriker.
Or maybe Windstriker fell too when :miko: fell... They do share a mental link, right?

White isn't a color for horses: horsy people call them gray. For all we know, Windstriker is outside the city drinking blood and booze!

Heck, let Mr Scruffy turn evil too.