Improved Grapple and Natural Attacks?

[FishBonePendant]

I created a Paladin for a new campaign with some friends and chose a Giant Eagle as my Paladin Mount. Since paladin mounts are smart enough to take feats as they level I was looking at what feats would help make my eagle a SUPREME TERROR OF THE SKIES.

Since eagles don't get the improved grab ability or have hands to make unarmed strikes with I was wondering how I could give him Improved Grapple.

Would I need to take Improved unarmed strike and then take Grapple? Because it seems like a waste of a feat.

[RedMage125]

I created a Paladin for a new campaign with some friends and chose a Giant Eagle as my Paladin Mount. Since paladin mounts are smart enough to take feats as they level I was looking at what feats would help make my eagle a SUPREME TERROR OF THE SKIES.

Since eagles don't get the improved grab ability or have hands to make unarmed strikes with I was wondering how I could give him Improved Grapple.

Would I need to take Improved unarmed strike and then take Grapple? Because it seems like a waste of a feat.

By a strict RAW reading, yes.

But if I was the DM, I'd rule that, under the purview of "virtual feats", any creature with a Natural Attack meets the prerequisite of Improved Unarmed Strike.

HOWEVER, since he does not have Improved Grab, the eagle does not get to initiate a grapple when making a claw attack. It's either make a claw attack, or choose to initiate a grapple (thus making a touch attack as per normal grappling rules).

But you want a grappling monstrosity? Take a camel. A 1st level druid can have a camel, and those suckers have a +10 Grapple check. Imagine how that would stack up if you gave HIM Improved Grapple, not to mention bonus Hit Dice and Strength.

How does a camel grapple? Dunno, maybe he sits on the guy. But a +10 grapple check at first level that only gets better is a pretty mean grappling opponent.

[Urpriest]

Improved Unarmed Strike is hardly a waste of a feat, since it gives you more attacks. I'd take it on a paladin mount anyway, regardless of whether I was trying to get Improved Grapple. As mentioned, you'd still need Scorpion's Grasp to get something like Improved Grab.

Snatch is the feat that is designed specifically for this tactic. It's also restricted to Huge or larger creatures, which suggests that a Giant Eagle may be too small to do this sort of thing effectively.

[FishBonePendant]

Oh man, you make the Camel sound like a hilarious death machine. But the Giant eagle already gets +12 Grapple at it's lowest HD.

I've never even heard of Scorpion's Grasp before, I love it.

[FishBonePendant]

It looks like there are two different versions of the Snatch Feat.

One from MM 3.5 requires being huge.


While one from MM II only requires claws or bite attacks.

[RedMage125]

Regrettably, the RAW answer is that the most recent publication trumps the other one. And the MM2 is a 3.0 book. The 3.5 MM was published later, and it thus the official version.

[FishBonePendant]

Well crud, no Eagle snatching for me. Thanks for the help guys.