Can you build a tribute to the Mantis Shrimp?

[Particle_Man]

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/mantis_shrimp

The mantis shrimp is indeed awesome. Is there a build you can think of that captures both their sensitive sensory abilities and their ability to deal death?

[VoxRationis]

Move, over, Praying Mantis style—it's time for Mantis Shrimp style!
I'd have to say, this seems like it's best for something homebrewed—a prestige class or something. I mean, my optimization skills aren't the best, but a warrior who truly encompasses the spirit of the mantis shrimp is well beyond the level of your ordinary warrior. How many feats are there that allow you to punch hard enough to make light?

[(Un)Inspired]

Beguiler/Rainbow servant sound do it pretty well.

All the colour spray, prismatic spray style spells cover the multiple colours thing pretty well.

Cleric combat buffs mean you can hit harder than just about anyone in the game.

[VoxRationis]

But the color spray stuff just helps you create colors. The mantis shrimp can also see colors, and many of them, beyond our comprehension. I mean, darkvision gives you an extra color, and maybe detect magic depending on how your DM interprets it, but that's still not enough.

[(Un)Inspired]

Don't beguilers get true sight? Colour spray is just sharing the colours with everyone else.

[Flickerdart]

darkvision gives you an extra color
No it doesn't. Darkvision is in black and white, possibly because the designers knew what rods were, or possibly by accident.

[VoxRationis]

I was referring to it as an extra color in an of itself. If you have one color, you see in black and white. This color is not affected by normal light patterns, neither washed out by the presence of normal light nor absent in darkness. If you think of it as similar to (but slightly distinct from, due to several real-world considerations) infra-red vision, you see where I'm coming from.
And I'm missing where rods come into this. Oh! You mean the eye cells. Well, rods can't function in the absence of light either, and the fact that low-light vision sees in color means the designers definitely did not know the rod/cone distinction, or at least didn't care.

[TheIronGolem]

Warlock would seem to fit. Eldritch Blast = "I snap my hands/claws shut so fast it makes energy blasts!". They also get access to sensory powers like See The Unseen, which can represent the shrimp's ability to see more colors in a way that isn't really accurate, but understandable.

Oh, and Improved Initiative if you want to play up the "onetwothreeDEATH" angle.

[docnessuno]

Personally i would adapt the Psionic Sandwich trick:


The Psionic Sandwich by Tleilaxu_Ghola

Hmph, I think I should edit my original mind-switch thread. The most optimal way to gain a body permanently is no longer true mind switch. It's to use astral seed + mind switch + psychic chirurgery. The result is an XP expendature of 0 XP, that's right zero. You lose no levels, and you gain all the effects of true mind switch.

Anyways, so in lieu of what I just said above, the most optimal way to create the most un-optimal character is to use the following sequence and build:

Race: Elan
Build: Telepath 20
Feats: Any, must have EK(Astral Seed) and skill focus (craft [basket weaving])

1. Acquire a loaf of bread (2cp)
2. Turn the bread into a sandwich (craft DC 5) (probably 2 minutes)
3. Polymorph the sandwich (preferably ham with mustard, pepperoni, salami, and jalapenos) into a fuzzy little bunny. (NPC casting 1200 gp) (1 standard action)
4. Cast astral seed (10 minutes)
5. Ritualistically slay yourself with favored method of suicide. Be sure to place your storage crystal next to the sandwich turned bunny. (I prefer to be killed with a dagger to the heart... :shifty: ) (Approximately 5 rounds)
6. Use mind-switch (the 6th level power) to switch with the rabbit, while in your storage crystal. (1 std action)
7. Metamorph into a troll and smash your storage crystal (now containing the mind of a sandwich). (2 standard actions)
8. Use psychic chirurgery to remove your negative level gotten from committing suicide. (10 minutes)
9. Dismiss your metamorphosis and manifest dispel psionics on yourself (to dispel the polymorph). (2 standard actions)

Congratulations, your ascension to the sublime state of a sandwich took:
23 minutes 6 seconds and cost you 1200.02 gold pieces.

[Zetapup]

Warlock would seem to fit. Eldritch Blast = "I snap my hands/claws shut so fast it makes energy blasts!". They also get access to sensory powers like See The Unseen, which can represent the shrimp's ability to see more colors in a way that isn't really accurate, but understandable.

Oh, and Improved Initiative if you want to play up the "onetwothreeDEATH" angle.

Ooh yeah, and definitely go eldritch claws/eldritch glaive. Isn't there an eldritch essence/blast shape that does a minor knockback thing? You might be able to use that to represent the cavitation effect. The tiny bit of dr that warlocks get could work for the mantis shrimp's body armor, although it'd be nice if it were higher (through roll with it or something similar)

[Flickerdart]

I was referring to it as an extra color in an of itself.
If that were the case, then people with Darkvision would see trippy colours in situations with normal light. This is demonstrably not the case.

[VoxRationis]

A color is a wavelength (or really, a group of wavelengths arbitrarily lumped under a single name) of light. Light is the energy that we see by, as well as related energies we are incapable of seeing. Darkvision is a form of sight and therefore relies on some form of light energy. Darkvision only manifests as black and white, or presence and absence of the stimulus, so it only has one wavelength. Therefore, darkvision has one color of light.
As to why they don't, maybe it's because dwarves aren't aware that other people see differently in normal light, because it doesn't inhibit function and is consistent (by analogy, I have no way of telling that your red is the same as my red). Perhaps they block it out when it's not necessary. Perhaps it's an active sense (considering that there's no known stimulus that has to be there for it to work) and the darkvision-using creatures don't produce that energy form when it's light out.

Relating to the last theory: if that's how it works, there should be a monster that doesn't have darkvision proper, but can see other things using it.

[Flickerdart]

Darkvision is a form of sight and therefore relies on some form of light energy.
http://throatoftheworld.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/download-25.jpg

Darkvision relies on absolutely nothing of the sort. If you took a character with Darkvision and placed him in an environment isolated from all radiation, he could still see, because the rules say a character with Darkvision can see in the dark.

[Kazyan]

Darkvision relies on absolutely nothing of the sort. If you took a character with Darkvision and placed him in an environment isolated from all radiation, he could still see, because the rules say a character with Darkvision can see in the dark.

I've heard darkvision described as working the same way sight by light works, except with dark. The dark wave-particles emit from (???), bounce off an object, hit your eyes, and form a picture of the object so you can see it. It works because D&D physics.

[docnessuno]

http://throatoftheworld.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/download-25.jpg

Darkvision relies on absolutely nothing of the sort. If you took a character with Darkvision and placed him in an environment isolated from all radiation, he could still see, because the rules say a character with Darkvision can see in the dark.

http://blogs.name.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/objection.jpg

But the rules never define "Darkness" as "absence of all radiations".

[Flickerdart]

I've heard darkvision described as working the same way sight by light works, except with dark. The dark wave-particles emit from (???), bounce off an object, hit your eyes, and form a picture of the object so you can see it. It works because D&D physics.
If the rules didn't describe it that way, it doesn't matter.


http://blogs.name.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/objection.jpg

But the rules never define "Darkness" as "absence of all radiations".

http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080902204342/aceattorney/images/3/3b/Holdit.gif

It doesn't matter whether or not darkness is the absence of all radiation. The absence of all radiation is darkness (because there isn't light, a type of radiation) and yet the character would still be able to see.

[VoxRationis]

The rules generally refer to darkness as based on human sight. Darkvision and low-light vision are both worded in contrast to human sight (which is good and reasonable, as it's the most convenient frame of reference for the player). But the objection guy is right here: it can't be the absence of all radiation, or darkness would have to be defined at absolute 0.

Edit: A good logical point, "Hold it" guy (it won't let me see the thread while I'm editing, so I can't name you specifically). :smallsigh: D&D vs. physics again. I'm still going with the active emission theory.

[docnessuno]

If the rules didn't describe it that way, it doesn't matter.

http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080902204342/aceattorney/images/3/3b/Holdit.gif

It doesn't matter whether or not darkness is the absence of all radiation. The absence of all radiation is darkness (because there isn't light, a type of radiation) and yet the character would still be able to see.

http://imaginationsofanerd.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/takethat.gif?w=490

Actually from the SRD:


Darkvision is the extraordinary ability to see with no light source at all, out to a range specified for the creature. Darkvision is black and white only (colors cannot be discerned). It does not allow characters to see anything that they could not see otherwise—invisible objects are still invisible, and illusions are still visible as what they seem to be. Likewise, darkvision subjects a creature to gaze attacks normally. The presence of light does not spoil darkvision.

Darkvision is not defined as the ability to see in darkness, but as the ability to see without a light source. The presence of other normal electromagnetic radiation might still be required.

[Palanan]

I came here for the mantis shrimp, but I'm stepping back from the silly argument about darkvision physics.



--Hold on, rolling a Will save. 17. I avoid the temptation to become involved. :smallbiggrin:

[hemming]

Perhaps the best way to capture the "can see alternate spectrums" in D&D is to allow him to have detect magic permanency (would this also detect planar disturbances?)

- he should also be able to see multiple coexistent planes (shadow/material/ethereal)

IRL - I'm colorblind (red/green) - my spot checks on plaid items fail and don't even ask me to find the red golf ball in green grass; never thought about how this might affect a D&D character though (not many guys in bright red hiding against green backgrounds)

[Urpriest]

I'd probably advise using Blood Wind and some high-damage natural attacks (maybe Versatile Unarmed Strike, and some crit optimization?) for the water bullets.

In terms of seeing extra colors, how about just having lots of divinations up? Arcane Sight, Know Opponent, etc.

Come to think of it, Priya the Prismatic Princess has the rainbow theme and could probably manage both of these...a bit too high-op otherwise though, kind of excessive for this task.

[Flickerdart]

http://imaginationsofanerd.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/takethat.gif?w=490

Actually from the SRD:
Darkvision is not defined as the ability to see in darkness, but as the ability to see without a light source. The presence of other normal electromagnetic radiation might still be required.

http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130329201541/aceattorney/images/7/79/Phoenix_Thinking_1.gif

Given that the ability doesn't say it requires anything special to see without light - no condition in the ability gives us any ground to posit another kind of signal that turns off Darkvision when blocked - it seems reasonable to propose that it does not. One could, of course, claim that this is omitted because the special kind of radiation required by Darkvision cannot be blocked by anything but, well, Occam's Razor.