PDA

View Full Version : Need help with Build (sorc).



Falrin
2007-02-03, 10:40 AM
First of all, I'm a real doubtfull person. I rolled these stats for my reserve character (16 16 14 14 12 10) and need a build for it.

LvL 12
All 3.5 (But only base classes + PrCs)
No powerplay = No PrC dips (at least 5 LvLs)
Party: A straight fighter (yup), a druid & a rogue (2LvLs fighter & an unknown PrC). Currently I'm the cleric.

I already had a wizard, I like casters and I've never played a sorc.

Basic Ideas:

A Ray-Sorceror (suggestions on this one always welcome) but currently I'm leaning towards: A Cloud-Sorceror (Yup, I like to keep them thematic)

So here I go.

Race: Human?

Feats:

Improved Initiative (human)
Sculpt spell
Arcane Preparation
Quicken Spell
Spell Focus conj & greater.

House rules: Bonus feats from a small list at 5,10,15 & 20. (saves, skill bonusses & some other mostly useless stuff)

Great fortitude
Extra spell (4th LvL)

The basic Idea is to get some clouds on the battlefield and keep the enemies in while keeping myself out of harm. Question: Is Solid fog Attacking? is Acid cloud attacking?
I know sorc should get a wide spell selection, but I'm happy if I can take on all kind of creatures. (Big & Strong, Small & Dexy, Rotten & Undead, Fragile & Caster, ...)

Spells:

LvL 1
Obscuring Mist (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/obscuringMist.htm)
Grease (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/grease.htm)
Mage Armor (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/mageArmor.htm)
Ray of Enfeeblement (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/rayOfEnfeeblement.htm)
Enlarge Person (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/enlargePerson.htm)

LvL 2
Fog Cloud (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/fogCloud.htm)
Glitterdust (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/glitterdust.htm)
Web (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/web.htm)
Scorching Ray (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/scorchingRay.htm)
Invisibility (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/invisibility.htm) (or greater) otherwise Eagle’s Splendor (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/eaglesSplendor.htm) (low magic)

LvL 3
Magic Circle against (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/magicCircleAgainstChaos.htm)Evil (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/magicCircleAgainstEvil.htm) (We might not have a cleric & the fighters willsave is a killer)
Stinking Cloud (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/stinkingCloud.htm)
Fly (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/fly.htm)
Haste (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/haste.htm)
Concidering : Magic Weapon, Greater (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/magicWeaponGreater.htm) (low magic), Slow (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/slow.htm) Ray of Exhaustion (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/rayOfExhaustion.htm) Dispel Magic (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/dispelMagic.htm).

LvL 4
Black Tentacles (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/blackTentacles.htm)
Dimension Door (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/dimensionDoor.htm) Solid Fog (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/solidFog.htm)
(Extra spell) Invisibility, Greater (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/invisibilityGreater.htm) (for the rogue & if clouds are conciderd attacking, otherwise I concider a 3th LvL spell)

LvL 5
Cloudkill (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/cloudkill.htm)
Wall of Stone (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/wallOfStone.htm)

LvL 6
Acid Fog (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/acidFog.htm)


So what do you think? Keep in mind it's an attempt to get fluff effective, not to outshine the straight fighter, oh wait ...

ken-do-nim
2007-02-03, 11:13 AM
Invisibility says, "For purposes of this spell, an attack includes any spell targeting a foe or whose area or effect includes a foe." Since the cloud spells would be cast on foes, it would make you visible.

PinkysBrain
2007-02-03, 11:30 AM
Question: Is Solid fog Attacking? is Acid cloud attacking?You mean for invisibility? If there are enemies in the AoE then yes, if not then no.

So what do you think? Keep in mind it's an attempt to get fluff effective, not to outshine the straight fighter, oh wait ...There is a difference between not power gaming and trying to get down to the level of the fighter ;)

There is always the Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil ... although that is just a tad overpowered in the end. A little less powerful, the mage of the arcane order is a great PrC for a sorcerer.

There are lots of great ray spells in SpC BTW. Also cloud/fog spells.

Were-Sandwich
2007-02-03, 11:30 AM
No, you cast then on an area, not on foes, so invisibility stays.

ken-do-nim
2007-02-03, 11:57 AM
No, you cast then on an area, not on foes, so invisibility stays.

No. Read my quote from the spell above. If any foes are in the area of effect, invisibility goes.

The big exceptions to invisibility are flaming sphere and summoned monsters.

Isomenes
2007-02-03, 12:42 PM
Don't forget the Reach Spell feat if you're moving towards a rayman. It opens up a number of otherwise touch-only nasties in the Necro category--Chill Touch and Fatigue Touch are my favorites so far.

Jack_Simth
2007-02-03, 01:57 PM
All 3.5?

Desert Kobold Sorcerer (Unearthed Arcana Racial variant, available Free Online (http://www.rpgoracle.com/srd/unearthedEnvironmentalVariants.html#desert-kobolds)), two flaws (Also Unearthed Arcana; available Here (http://www.rpgoracle.com/srd/unearthedFlaws.html); the Loner flaw from Dragon 327 is a decent choice, as you only have five levels of familiar progression; Shaky cancels out your bonus to ranged attack rolls from your small stature and racial dex exactly, Vulnerable is only -1 to AC, and you've got +3 due to your racial choice. You can get a larger listing of Feats and Flaws, with their sources and descriptions, Here (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/datafind/feats.shtml)).

Stat Assignments: Cha, Con, Dex, Int, Wis, Str
After racial bonuses and penalties, that leaves you with:
Str 6, Dex 16, Con 16, Int 14, Wis 10, Cha 16

Sorcerer-5/Mage of the Arcane Order-10/Archmage-5
Feats:
1st: Arcane Preparation (Mage of the Arcane Order requirement, Complete Arcance), Cooperative Metamagic (Mage of the Arcane Order requirement, Complete Arcane), Draconic Bloodline (Dragon Magazine - gives a bonus spells known at most spell levels from a particular list, at the cost of removing a particular type of spell from your class list; for instance, if you claim some decent from a White/Silver dragon, you might be unable to cast spells with the [Fire] descriptor; chosen as it's thematic with the Draconic Rite of Passage and its Greater version).
3rd: Some metamagic feat(Mage of the Arcane Order requirement). Quicken will be useful later, but Still or Silent Spell is probably your best bet at this point.
Somewhere in here, you go on the Draconic Rite of Passage (Races of the Dragon)
6th: Draconic Resevoir (Available as part of the Online Web Enhancement (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a) for Races of the Dragon) and go on the Greater Draconic Rite of Passage
7th: Mage of the Arcane Order bonus metamagic feat (Open to any Metamagic)
9th: Spell Focus
12th: Spell Focus
14th: Mage of the Arcane Order Bonus metamagic feat (Open to any Metamagic)
15th: Skill Focus(Spellcraft)
18th: Open

What's this get you?
Small Size
30 foot land speed
+1 Natural Armor
Darkvision 60
-4 Strength, +2 Dexterity, -2 Wisdom
+2 Survival, Craft(Trapmaking), and Search Checks.
No light sensitivity
A minor, 3/day spell like ability (from Draconic Rite of Passage; 1/day until 6th).
The ability to use Quicken Spell (although not spontaneously)
-3 HP (cost of Greater Draconic Rite of Passage).
+4 on Fort saves to resist hot weather
One extra spell per spell level (chosen from a particular list).
The ability to call any PHB Sor/Wiz spell on one round's notice (but only caster level / 2 spell levels per day, and you need your focus, and you have to pay them back).
Cast as a Sorcerer one level above your actual character level (which gives you spell access at the same rate as a Wizard; benefit of Greater Draconic Rite of Passage).
5 levels of Archmage Special Abilities
You're taking full levels of all PrC's you choose.

Spell choices are, of course, as you see fit. At 12th, you'll have extra spells known due to casting as a Sorcerer-13, extra spells known due to your Draconic Bloodline, and the ability to Call up almost any spell you'll need that you don't have. So three 6th level spells known, one of which is already selected, and the ability to Call up any Sor/Wiz spell of 6th level or lower (that's not on your forbidden list), and two selectable metamagic feats.

A really, really flexible Sorcerer, in other words. I'm ignoring class variants, for now.

Now, to cap it off (mind you, this drips cheese)
Take Limited Wish, and pull out the Expanded Psionics Handbook.
Under Magic-Psionics transparency, a spell interacts with powers the way a spell interacts with spells. Thus, Limited Wish can duplicate Psychic Reformation (XPH, also available as part of the SRD).
Under Magic-Psionics transparency, a power interacts with a spell the way a power interacts with a power. Thus, Psychic Reformation permits you to change your spells known (in addition to skills and feats... but you've only got a grand total of four feats from 1st to 20th that you can change without compromising your character (losing spells known or a requiremnt for a PrC) - metamagic at 3rd, 7th, and 14th, a normal feat at 18th).
So at 13th+, you can basically swap out your last six class levels (last three spell levels, usually) of known spells with a 7th level spell slot, 300 xp, and a standard action. Skills, too. 50 xp for each additional class level (100 xp for each spell level) further back.

Oh, and if you want some extra cheese, look closely at the Sorcerer's spellcasting section, and compare it to other classes spellcasting. The Sorcerer learns and casts "spells primarily from" the Sor/Wiz list. All other Core base spellcasting classes cast "spells from" the class list. Theoretically, you could take a Bard's Cure X Wounds or Hero's Feast.

PinkysBrain
2007-02-03, 02:50 PM
Since bend reality can't duplicate spells I wouldn't let limited wish duplicate powers.

Jack_Simth
2007-02-03, 04:05 PM
Since bend reality can't duplicate spells I wouldn't let limited wish duplicate powers.

Perfectly reasonable anti-cheese response. Magic and Psionics are Different is explicitly called out as a campaign option.

It's not RAW, though, under the default:


COMBINING PSIONIC AND MAGICAL EFFECTS

The default rule for the interaction of psionics and magic is simple: Powers interact with spells and spells interact with powers in the same way a spell or normal spell-like ability interacts with another spell or spell-like ability. This is known as psionics-magic transparency.
How does Limited Wish interact with spells? It duplicates them (within a particular set of limits). Under the default rule, you can duplicate Psychic Reformation with Limited Wish.

Do note, though, that Bend Reality is more restrictive in general than Limited Wish.

Bend Reality is Psion/Wilder 8 (but still caps at 6th level effects). Limited Wish is Sorcerer/Wizard 7, for instance.

Interestingly, the text of Bend Reality somewhat contradicts itself:


Bend Reality

Clairsentience
Level: Psion/wilder 8
Display: Visual
Manifesting Time: 1 standard action
Range: See text
Target, Effect, or Area: See text
Duration: See text
Saving Throw: None; see text
Power Resistance: Yes
Power Points: 15, XP
Bend reality lets you create nearly any type of effect. For example, bend reality can do any of the following:

Duplicate any psion power of 6th level or lower, provided the power is not of a discipline prohibited to you.
Duplicate any other power (but not a spell) of 5th level or lower, provided the power is not of a discipline prohibited to you.
Duplicate any psion power (file:///D:/local%20web/SRD/srd.pbemnexus.com/PsionicPsionList.html) of 5th level or lower, even if it’s of a prohibited discipline.
Duplicate any other power (but not a spell) of 4th level or lower, even if it’s of a prohibited discipline.
Undo the harmful effects of many powers, such as psionic dominate (file:///D:/local%20web/SRD/srd.pbemnexus.com/psionicPowersDtoF.html#dominate-psionic), geas/quest (file:///D:/local%20web/SRD/srd.pbemnexus.com/spellsFtoG.html#geas-quest), or insanity (file:///D:/local%20web/SRD/srd.pbemnexus.com/psionicPowersGtoP.html#insanity).
Produce any other effect whose power level is in line with the above effects, such as a single creature automatically hitting on its next attack or taking a -8 penalty on its next saving throw.
A duplicated power allows saving throws and power resistance as normal (but the save DC is for a 8th-level power).
When bend reality duplicates a power that has an XP cost, you must pay that cost or 300 XP, whichever is more. When bend reality duplicates a spell with a material component, you must pay additional XP equal to the value of the material component divided by 5.
XP Cost: 300 XP or more (see above).(Emphasis and Emphasis added)
So... it simply can't duplicate spells, but when it duplicates a spell that has a material component, you have to pay XP based on the cost of the materical component. Huh? Maybe it can duplicate spells under the "Produce any other effect whose power level is in line with the above effects, such as a single creature automatically hitting on its next attack or taking a -8 penalty on its next saving throw." clause (In which case, Limited Wish can duplicate Psychic Reformation under the same clause). Is a 4th level power in line with the power level of a 4th level non Sor-Wiz spell of a prohibited school (which Limited Wish can do)?

PinkysBrain
2007-02-03, 04:30 PM
I'd simply say that interaction is something that occurs to two things which are already in existence. The emulation of a power is not an interaction with it.

Language is flexible, and in this case there is more than enough room for interpretation.

Flawless
2007-02-03, 06:22 PM
Rapid Metamagic is better for applying metamagic feats than is arcane prepreration.

Armads
2007-02-04, 12:45 AM
you need arcane preparation to become a Mage of the Arcane Order. One of it's prereqs is to be able to prepare and cast 2nd level arcane spells, which sorcerers can't do without arcane preparation

Jack_Simth
2007-02-04, 11:25 AM
Yep.

That, and when you've got a feat that, except for PrC requirements, is strictly better than another feat, and they don't depend on each other in any way, chances are one of them is either overpowered or underpowered.

cupkeyk
2007-02-05, 11:43 AM
Air genasi do not breathe. They can walk into a stinking cloud without any ill effects aside from decreased visibility, but then you can have a bat familiar aiming your spells for you. ^_^ LA+1 though -_-

Mikal
2007-02-05, 12:09 PM
First of all, I'm a real doubtfull person. I rolled these stats for my reserve character (16 16 14 14 12 10) and need a build for it.

LvL 12
All 3.5 (But only base classes + PrCs)
No powerplay = No PrC dips (at least 5 LvLs)
Party: A straight fighter (yup), a druid & a rogue (2LvLs fighter & an unknown PrC). Currently I'm the cleric.

If you REALLY want Sorc over Wiz... ask the DM if you can use the metamagic variant from PHB II (allows you to use metamagic w/o the time increase equal to Int+3 times per day). If not.. eh.

Class wise, nothing really can sit against a caster/incantatrix (players guide to faerun)/archmage, in your case split up 6/10/4. So for level 12 you'd be a 6th level sorc/6th level incan. Incantatrix's are full casting classes that give you lots of powerful metamagic abilities, as well as bonus metamagic feats.
In addition you get some nasty effects such as being able to metamagic effects already on people, seize concentration of spells from others, and other nasty stuff.
It's keystone ability are the lowering of all metamagic level costs by 1, REALLY evil when added to the PHB II feat that lowers metamagic costs, and other such effects. You also get "instant" (w/o level penalties) metamagic a few times per day.

Archmage of course, allows you to do touch attacks at range, be a master counterspeller, and sculpt your spells w/o wasting a feat.



A Ray-Sorceror (suggestions on this one always welcome) but currently I'm leaning towards: A Cloud-Sorceror (Yup, I like to keep them thematic)

While rays are fun, if you really wanna do some nastiness, find one orb spell from spell compendium (i recommend fire), and use metamagic feats up the wazoo along with Arcane Thesis. Said feat lowers the metamagic cost by 1, and raises your caster level by 2 when using it, increasing the damage. In addition, feats that give you bonuses to hit work on it, as well as improved critical.



Race: Human?


Good base race for the extra feat

Feats:

Improved Initiative (human)
Sculpt spell
Arcane Preparation
Quicken Spell
Spell Focus conj & greater.
Great fortitude
Extra spell (4th LvL)

Improved Init is useless.
Sculpt spell you can get if/when you go into archmage as an archmage ability (mastery of shaping)
Arcane Prep... if you're going to take Arcane Prep, just be a wizard, or use mage of the arcane order.
Quicken Spell is COMPLETELY useless for a base sorcerer unless they get the PHB II metamagic variant
Spell Focus is good, but not for conjuration as the DC's are kinda useless. Spell Focus is best for enchantment and evocation.
Instead of Great Fort, read below as to why you want Iron Will
Extra Spell? Useless. Use a staff, scroll, wand, or scepter


House rules: Bonus feats from a small list at 5,10,15 & 20. (saves, skill bonusses & some other mostly useless stuff)

Great! Your 5th level bonus feat should be Iron Will, which means you can use your level 1,3, or human bonus feat for your metamagic feat needed for incantatrix, freeing up your other two feats to get you ready for archmage.


The basic Idea is to get some clouds on the battlefield and keep the enemies in while keeping myself out of harm. Question: Is Solid fog Attacking? is Acid cloud attacking?
I know sorc should get a wide spell selection, but I'm happy if I can take on all kind of creatures. (Big & Strong, Small & Dexy, Rotten & Undead, Fragile & Caster, ...)

If you want to take on all kinds of creatures, then a metamagic master using a few basic attack spells fits your bill. With energy admixture, energy substitution, and other metamagic you can handle most anything.

Spells:(note this is for a 13th level caster, not 12, so some monkeying may be needed)
SPELLS/POWERS:
6/8/8/8/8/7/5 spells per day
9/5/5/4/4/3/2 spells known
Spells Known:
0:
1: Shield, Ray of Clumsiness, Ray of Enfeeblement, True Strike, Lesser Orb of Acid
2: Create Magic Tattoo, Ray of Stupidity, See Invisibility, Bear's Endurance, Cat's Grace
3: Mage Armor: Greater (+6 AC), Unluck, Lightning Bolt, Dragonskin (Gold, +5 NA, 20 fire resist)
4: Fire Orb, Ray Deflection, Force Missle, Greater Invisibility
5: Blink: Greater, Duelward, Mass Fireshield
6: Wall of Gears, Disintergrate

At this level, you should cast whatever spells you want to buff yourself, then use persistent spell via metamagic effect (from your incatatrix ability) to make them last 24 hours. This includes Shield, See Invis, the stat boosts (if you need them), greater mage armor, dragonskin, greater blink, and duelward (unless you go with disintergrate).

You'll need to bump up your concentration check though, as the DC to persist those will be 18+3*modified spell level. I'd suggest investing in a concentration bonus item to do so. You can't go wrong.

ShneekeyTheLost
2007-02-05, 07:18 PM
The 'cloud' crowd control version is probably one of the most solid types of Sorcerer builds around. They let you cripple hordes of critters while the tanks get around to killing them all.

1) There's a PrC called 'Mage of the Arcane Order'. It's great for Sorcerers because you get to pull that handy spell that you don't have known but you really really need out of your rear when you need it to save the party. Sure, you're effectively paying twice the spell cost, but your'e a sorcerer... that should never be a major concern. Before you rest for the day, dump all your spell levels you have left into the spellpool and you'll be more than just okay, you'll likely be way ahead. Furthermore, a few levels of it will get you MUCH EASIER access to Archmage. Once you can pull 7th level spells from the Spellpool, you can then qualify for AM, assuming all other feats and skills are up to par. Only issue is that it requires two nearly worthless feats to qualify. The good thing is that one of them is a worthless feat which is needed for AM anyways. The two feats are: Arcane Preparation, and Cooperative Casting. AP gives you the requirement 'must be able to prepare arcane spell 2nd level or higher). With a Human, you can qualify at level 5, quicker than any other PrC which requires 3rd level spells.

2) I second the PhB II Sorcerer variant which sacrifices your familiar to metamagic on the fly without additional cost. It's just dead useful.

3) Incantatrix is powerful, but most GM's won't let you use it unless you're in a Faerune game. If he will, by all means grab it!

4) A slight adjustment to your spell list:

1st level spells: Grease is good, so is Ray of Enfeeblement. Obscuring Mist is not so much once you have things like Solid Fog, Stinking Cloud, and Acid Cloud. Enlarge Person is okay, but not really vital. Mage Armor is actually not necessary once you can afford +1 Twilight Mithril Chain Shirt. +5 armor bonus, can be enchanted further with enough money, NO Arcane Spell Failure chance. Who needs Mage Armor now? Total cost: 5,350 (1k for mithril, 4k for enchants, Twilight is considered a +1 equivelant, and 350 for mastercrafted chain shirt). You should be able to afford this by level 4 easy.

Suggestions: True Strike instead of Mage Armor for use in conjunction with your Ray spells to make sure they hit. Magic Missile for guarenteed damage. It may not always be a lot of damage, but the number of critters it doesn't work on can be counted on one hand... with fingers left over.

2nd level spells: Solid line-up except one thing: You don't need both Fog Cloud and Obscuring Mist. Choose one, ditch the other. One spell you need: Mirror Image. Gives you better miss chance than even Invisibility.

3rd level spells: This is always a difficult one because there are so many dead useful spells. Your goal here is to be the crowd control and de-buffer, right? If you can get a cleric, then you don't need Circle against Evil.

You don't need haste. Trust me, it's not as good as it sounds. One extra attack, but ONLY in a FULL ATTACK. Try for Slow instead. It hits exactly which critters you want to hit, and drastically improves the survivability of your tanks by forcing the opponents to choose between a move option and a single attack, without an option of a full attack. You can even use it when your buddies are mixed in with your opponents. Grab this.

You need Dispel Magic. Yes, you really do. You can absolutely shut down an opponent mage with this spell alone. Just keep using it to Counterspell and he can't do jack or squat. Also handy for removing debuffs, removing magical traps, and many other uses.

Ray of Exhaustion is good. -6 to Str and Dex, half movement, and can't run. This will shut down a tank type fast.

Glitterdust is good. Get this.

Web is good, but you need some form of Lightning flavor damage. Get Lightning bolt. Some things, you just need lightning to affect, and you will be expected to be able to deliver it as the party arcane caster.

4th level: Solid Fog is GOOD. Opponents are slowed to 5' move rate and if they do they can't attack. Yes. Most certainly yes. Besides, it is THE spell which is the definition of your proposed fluff.

DimDoor is dead useful. Pop around where you need to be to do the most damage and avoid getting hit in the process.

Black Tentacles is pointless. Grapple checks... big deal. Go with something more useful.

Improved Invisibility: Depends on how you want to use it. For yourself? Use Mirror Image. By now it's giving you around a 1 in 8 chance of being hit rather than a 1 in 2. Much more useful for your defense. It is handy to toss on a sneak attack character, though.

Phantasmal Killer is your first Save or Die spell you can pick up. Might be handy.

Resiliant Sphere is dead useful for shutting down an opponent tank while the party deals with the rest of the critters, then gang-bangs him when you drop it after the opponent party is dead. Also handy for saving yourself when you see the greataxe-wielding barbarian troll charging with you in his sights.

Shadow Conjuration gives you every lower level Conjuration spell you haven't picked up yet, although it stacks a will save on top. Extremely handy for sorcerers to get.

Enervation is also dead useful. 1d4 neg levels... drop those obnoxious high level spells off the opponent mage's list, and drop the saves to managable levels. Works even better when Maximized or Twin Rayed.

5th: Cloud Kill is good. Get this.

Wall of Stone sucks, don't get it. Try for something like Shadow Evocation to be able to deal out any flavor damage 4th level or lower.

If you have no Cleric, get Break Enchantment. It will be necessary.

Feeblemind will shut down any wizard or sorcerer. They even get screwed on the save in the process.

Wall of Force: If you absolutely want a wall, this is the one to get. It's immune to physical damage, which makes it better than wall of stone.

Teleport is also a staple spell for arcane casters.

6th level: Good spell. Keep it. Get Disintegrate next.

PinkysBrain
2007-02-05, 10:37 PM
Total cost: 5,350 (1k for mithril, 4k for enchants, Twilight is considered a +1 equivelant, and 350 for mastercrafted chain shirt).
Mithral chain shirt is a standard item from the DMG, and it costs less than what you get from the normal formula ... sure, it's just 250 gp difference, but every little bit counts ;)

Fizban
2007-02-06, 12:56 AM
Total cost: 5,350 (1k for mithril, 4k for enchants, Twilight is considered a +1 equivelant, and 350 for mastercrafted chain shirt). You should be able to afford this by level 4 easy.
Thistledown Padded Feycraft Mithral Chain Shirt: +4 AC, +6 max dex, 0 check penalty, 0% spell failure, 10lbs, 1,850gp

I win.

Edit: Toss in a Feycraft Light Shield for +1 AC and no spell failure for 503gp, or a Githcraft Buckler for +1 AC, no SF, and +1 on concentration checks at 615gp. I win more.

Armads
2007-02-06, 01:56 AM
Can you add thistledown padded to a chainshirt?

ShneekeyTheLost
2007-02-06, 03:53 PM
Thistledown Padded Feycraft Mithral Chain Shirt: +4 AC, +6 max dex, 0 check penalty, 0% spell failure, 10lbs, 1,850gp

I win.

Edit: Toss in a Feycraft Light Shield for +1 AC and no spell failure for 503gp, or a Githcraft Buckler for +1 AC, no SF, and +1 on concentration checks at 615gp. I win more.

Never heard of Faycraft before, or Thistledown Padding, where is that from?

I'd also suggest Mithril Buckler, but I'm mostly restricted to SRD at the moment, so I can't pull up all the fun stuff like Faycraft and Githcraft.

Yes, it isn't too hard to make Mage Armor completely pointless. It doesn't even take much money either.

If your Thistledown Padded Faycraft Mithril Chain Shirt is considered MC but not magical, woth 0% ASF, I just found my new happy toy to play with, because then I don't have to blow a +1 equiv on Twilight, which can get REALLY expensive when you start getting total bonuses up around +4 or +5...

Fizban
2007-02-06, 07:58 PM
Never heard of Faycraft before, or Thistledown Padding, where is that from?

I'd also suggest Mithril Buckler, but I'm mostly restricted to SRD at the moment, so I can't pull up all the fun stuff like Faycraft and Githcraft.

Yes, it isn't too hard to make Mage Armor completely pointless. It doesn't even take much money either.

If your Thistledown Padded Faycraft Mithril Chain Shirt is considered MC but not magical, woth 0% ASF, I just found my new happy toy to play with, because then I don't have to blow a +1 equiv on Twilight, which can get REALLY expensive when you start getting total bonuses up around +4 or +5...
Feycraft: weapon/armor template from DMGII. Practically useless for weapons, but on armor it's like cheaper mithral, but it stacks. Lowers ASF, check penalty, and raises max dex, just a little, but that 5% ASF reduction is great when you combine it with...
Thistledown: a material in Races of the Wild. You can either get a suit of padded armor made with it, or use it as a lining for any heavy or medium armor, and chain shirt. It reduces ASF by another 5% but raises the check penalty.

Combining the three, you can get Thistledown Padded Feycraft Mithral Chain Shirt with an ASF of 20-10-5-5, or 0. Mithral knocks the check penalty off, and raises the max dex for later.

Githcraft is another item template from DMGII, similar to feycraft but more expensive in return for working with metal shields (feycraft only applies to wooden shields, but any medium or light armor, thus mithral can still be used). Since bucklers seem to be considered as metal, you use a Githcraft Buckler, or a Githcraft Mithral Heavy Shield if you can spare the hand, or a Githcraft Mithral Extreme Shield if you don't mind the check penalties.


Can you add thistledown padded to a chainshirt?
Yup, It says any medium or heavy armor, or chain shirt. I like that exception. :smallbiggrin:

Edit: and yes, it's still masterwork. Mithral items are always considered masterwork, and I'm pretty sure the templates do the same.