Wizards spell book.. Can someone explain

[Jaredh5432]

So the way I see it the wizards spell book explanation (in 3.5) isn't very clear. The way I interpret it is that wizards know all arcane spells for there level and than before the quest they prepare the spells per day in there spell book and once casted it disappears from the book thus you casted one of your spells per day, if you have 2 of the same spells written you can than cast it twice etc. so what I'm asking is, is this true? If not can someone explain the right answer!

[Khedrac]

So the way I see it the wizards spell book explanation (in 3.5) isn't very clear. The way I interpret it is that wizards know all arcane spells for there level and than before the quest they prepare the spells per day in there spell book and once casted it disappears from the book thus you casted one of your spells per day, if you have 2 of the same spells written you can than cast it twice etc. so what I'm asking is, is this true? If not can someone explain the right answer!

Hmm, almost totally wrong (sorry).

Forget about "Spells known" for a wizard (for now) as it's a slippery beast and there are lots of arguments about it.

You start with a spellbook with a number of spells. At the start of the day you learn some of the spells from your spellbook - filling up your spell slots in your memory.
When you cast a spell it vanishes from your memory, so if you want to be able to cast it twice in a day, you do have to use two (or more) of your spell slots on the same spell.

So your spell book is all the spells you have access to, and can memorise at the start of the day.
You can add new spells to your spellbook by copying them in from another wizard's spellbook (there's a cost of the materials + whatever the other wizard charges for the opportunity). Also when you go up a level you get to add two spells to your spellbook for free.

Edit: there are complications and exceptions to the above, but that's the simple version and good enough for most purposes.

[Grod_The_Giant]

That is not correct. Wizard casting has three steps: learning the spell (AKA writing it in your spellbook), preparing it, and then casting.

A wizard's spellbook has a finite amount of spells in it, each taking up a finite amount of space (1 page/spell level). You automatically learn and record 2 spells/level (more at first level); beyond that, you need to find and record spells on your own. You can copy spells from a scroll of another wizard's spellbook, but the process isn't free (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/arcaneSpells.htm#addingSpellstoaWizardsSpellbook). Your "spells known" list is basically all the spells recorded in your spellbook(s). But once recorded, a spell is there forever-- think of it as the recipe.

The next step is preparing the spell. This is the part where you pick the spells you think you'll need that day. Basically, you're "pre-casting" the spells, doing all the work ahead of time so the only thing you have to do later is recite a trigger phrase. If the spellbook has the recipe, this is the part where you buy all the ingredients and mix everything up. The key thing to remember here is that each spell is a distinct unit. If you think you'll want to cast fly twice, you have to prepare two fly spells.

Finally, you cast the spell. You take your standard action, wave your hands and whip out your material component, and the spell goes off. Afterwards, it's not prepared anymore-- you've cooked and eaten the food-- but it's still in your spellbook-- the recipe isn't consumed.

[Jaredh5432]

That is not correct. Wizard casting has three steps: learning the spell (AKA writing it in your spellbook), preparing it, and then casting.

A wizard's spellbook has a finite amount of spells in it, each taking up a finite amount of space (1 page/spell level). You automatically learn and record 2 spells/level (more at first level); beyond that, you need to find and record spells on your own. You can copy spells from a scroll of another wizard's spellbook, but the process isn't free (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/arcaneSpells.htm#addingSpellstoaWizardsSpellbook). Your "spells known" list is basically all the spells recorded in your spellbook(s). But once recorded, a spell is there forever-- think of it as the recipe.

The next step is preparing the spell. This is the part where you pick the spells you think you'll need that day. Basically, you're "pre-casting" the spells, doing all the work ahead of time so the only thing you have to do later is recite a trigger phrase. If the spellbook has the recipe, this is the part where you buy all the ingredients and mix everything up. The key thing to remember here is that each spell is a distinct unit. If you think you'll want to cast fly twice, you have to prepare two fly spells.

Finally, you cast the spell. You take your standard action, wave your hands and whip out your material component, and the spell goes off. Afterwards, it's not prepared anymore-- you've cooked and eaten the food-- but it's still in your spellbook-- the recipe isn't consumed.


Okay a few questions:
1: at first level how many spells will my spell book hold
2: does my int modifier effect it at all?
3 other than the +2 per level, how much would it cost to learn spells off wizards
4: can I scribe a spell (if it's arcane) if it's not in my spell book

[PaucaTerrorem]

Okay a few questions:
1: at first level how many spells will my spell book hold
2: does my int modifier effect it at all?
3 other than the +2 per level, how much would it cost to learn spells off wizards
4: can I scribe a spell (if it's arcane) if it's not in my spell book


1) All 0-level spells and 3+INT modifier 1-level
2) Read above
3) Depends. Look in the PHB page 178. Usually it costs 50 x spell level
4) You can scribe to a scroll if the spell's in your book

[Doc_Maynot]

1. All 0 level spells, and 3+int mod 1st level spells
2. For each point of Intelligence bonus the wizard has the spellbook holds one additional 1st-level spell of your choice.
3. If you find a willing wizard the SRD says Spell level x 150 gp (Copying fees + materials)
4. Scribe scroll says "You can create a scroll of any spell that you know." But you can add spells to you book from wizard scrolls regardless of if you know them or not. That is the point.

[Andezzar]

Okay a few questions:
1: at first level how many spells will my spell book holdAny spellbook can hold 100 pages of spells. What you probably want to know how many of those pages already are filled with spells. In your spellbook will be all 0th level spells and 3+INT modifier 1st level spells.

2: does my int modifier effect it at all?See above.

3 other than the +2 per level, how much would it cost to learn spells off wizardsIt is up to the wizard i.e. the DM how much to charge to be allowed to copy something from his spellbook. To actually inscribe the spell in the spellbook you need 100 gp per page. Each spell takes up 1 page per spell level in the spellbook.

4: can I scribe a spell (if it's arcane) if it's not in my spell bookI assume you mean if it is not on your spell list. That you cannot do. You can inscribe a spell into your spellbook that was not yet in there from a scroll or someone else's spellbook.

[Jaredh5432]

There is two replies that I am unclear on! Does and arcane spell need to me in my book for me to scribe it into a scroll..

Also it I get a scroll of another arcane spell can I add it to my book?

[Slipperychicken]

Okay a few questions:
1: at first level how many spells will my spell book hold
2: does my int modifier effect it at all?
3 other than the +2 per level, how much would it cost to learn spells off wizards
4: can I scribe a spell (if it's arcane) if it's not in my spell book

At first level, you get every 0th level spell known (except for those from banned schools). You also get [your intelligence modifier + 3] first levels spells. All those spells are in your book.

Regular spellbooks have a total capacity of 100 pages. Every spell occupies a number of pages equal to its level (but 0th level spells still take up one page). If you get to your spellbook's capacity, you need to get another spellbook to hold additional spells (they're usually 15 gold. Pretty cheap).

The inks to copy a spell into your book cost 100 gold per page (i.e. 100 gold per spell level). If you're copying the spell from another wizard, you generally need to pay him 50 gold per spell level to let you copy it. This means the total cost is 150 gold per spell level if you're paying an NPC to let you copy it.

If you defeat a wizard and take his spellbook, you obviously don't need to pay him to copy his spells. Then it only takes the normal 100 gold per spell level.


There is two replies that I am unclear on! Does and arcane spell need to me in my book for me to scribe it into a scroll..

Also it I get a scroll of another arcane spell can I add it to my book?

If you want to write a scroll yourself, you need the spell in your spellbook first.

You can learn spells from any scrolls you find (assuming they're wizard spells). This still takes the normal 100 gold per spell level, but the process destroys the scroll.

[Jaredh5432]

At first level, you get every 0th level spell known (except for those from banned schools). You also get [your intelligence modifier + 3] first levels spells. All those spells are in your book.

Regular spellbooks have a total capacity of 100 pages. Every spell occupies a number of pages equal to its level (but 0th level spells still take up one page). If you get to your spellbook's capacity, you need to get another spellbook to hold additional spells (they're usually 15 gold. Pretty cheap).

The inks to copy a spell into your book cost 100 gold per page (i.e. 100 gold per spell level). If you're copying the spell from another wizard, you generally need to pay him 50 gold per spell level to let you copy it. This means the total cost is 150 gold per spell level if you're paying an NPC to let you copy it.

If you defeat a wizard and take his spellbook, you obviously don't need to pay him to copy his spells. Then it only takes the normal 100 gold per spell level.



If you want to write a scroll yourself, you need the spell in your spellbook first.

You can learn spells from any scrolls you find (assuming they're wizard spells). This still takes the normal 100 gold per spell level, but the process destroys the scroll.


1 more question, every level I get 2 more spell choices for my book, those spells can be any level I can cast right? Also when I level up does my int modifier gain me bonus spells for my book?

[PaucaTerrorem]

Any level you can cast, including levels you just gained by leveling. So when you hit Wiz 3 you can learn 2 new 2nd level spells.

Int modifier only affects spells at character creation.

And that was 2 questions.

[Slipperychicken]

1 more question, every level I get 2 more spell choices for my book, those spells can be any level I can cast right? Also when I level up does my int modifier gain me bonus spells for my book?

The 2 free spells can be any level you can cast. For example, when you level up from 2 to 3, your two free spells can be 2nd level spells.

Your intelligence modifier does not determine the number of free spells you gain each level after first. It will be 2 regardless of your intelligence, unless something changes the number (such as the Collegiate Wizard feat).

[Jaredh5432]

The 2 free spells can be any level you can cast. For example, when you level up from 2 to 3, your two free spells can be 2nd level spells.

Your intelligence modifier does not determine the number of free spells you gain each level after first. It will be 2 regardless of your intelligence, unless something changes the number (such as the Collegiate Wizard feat).

Thanks, so in order to be an effective wizard one must pay a nice sum to accumulate more spells? 2 a level seems little

[RedMage125]

Okay a few questions:
1: at first level how many spells will my spell book hold
2: does my int modifier effect it at all?
3 other than the +2 per level, how much would it cost to learn spells off wizards
4: can I scribe a spell (if it's arcane) if it's not in my spell book

1: A spellbook has 100 pages by default. A given spell takes up a number of pages equal to n, where n is (the level of the spell, minimum 1). So at 1st level your spellbook contains ALL 0 level wizard spells, and 3 1st level spells, plus 1 spell per point of INT modifier. So each of those takes up one page.
2: Yes, your INT mod gives you extra spells in your book at first level, as well as extra spells per day, as noted on the chart.
3: Any willing wizard who lets you borrow their spellbook may do so for free. The Books say that those who charge most commonly charge (n x 50gp). Scribing a new page ALSO costs 100gp per page, except for the 2 free ones you learned when you levelled. The process of scribing one new spell into your book takes 24 hours, regardless of the spell's level.
4: I assume you mean make a scroll as per Scribe Scroll? You must have the spell prepared, and cast it as part of the scribing process. This usually means you prepared it from your own spellbook, but not always.

[PaucaTerrorem]

If you pick the right ones they'll cover most problems you'll face. But wizards adventure not for gilded wealth or trinkets, but for knowledge. As we all know knowledge is power. You'll want to find/buy as many spells as you can.

[RedMage125]

Thanks, so in order to be an effective wizard one must pay a nice sum to accumulate more spells? 2 a level seems little

Yes. As stated, there is a feat available at first level that gives you more per level. Also Elf Wizard Racial Substitution level (from Races of the Wild) gets that as well.

[Jaredh5432]

Yes. As stated, there is a feat available at first level that gives you more per level. Also Elf Wizard Racial Substitution level (from Races of the Wild) gets that as well.

What feat would that be?

[Jaredh5432]

Which feats allows me extra spells that I can put in my book (each level) so it adds to the default 2

[Andezzar]

Collegiate Wizard CArc p. 181.

[Grod_The_Giant]

What feat would that be?

Which feats allows me extra spells that I can put in my book (each level) so it adds to the default 2
No need to repeat yourself. The feat, as Slipperychicken mentioned, is Collegiate Wizard, from Complete Arcane-- it effectively doubles your free spells/level so that you learn 4 spells every time you level up. Also Aerenal Arcanist (Player's Guide to Eberron) grants you an additional spell every time you level up.

In addition, the racial substitution levels for elf wizards (Races of the Wild) allow you to trade your ability to specialize in order to learn an extra spell every time you level up, as well as to prepare an extra spell of their highest level each day.

So, if you take both feats and the racial substitution level, you can learn 6 spells every time you level up, and start with 8+Int mod 1st level spells. That's a mildly insane 122+starting Int mod non-zero-level spells at 20th level, before you spend a single gold piece.

[Andezzar]

In addition, the racial substitution levels for elf wizards (Races of the Wild) allow you to trade your ability to specialize in order to learn an extra spell every time you level up, as well as to prepare an extra spell of their highest level each day.Just to clarify the Elven Generalist Wizardry ACF does not stack with the Collegiate Wizard feat. If you have both you still only get 4 spells each level up, not 7.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Just to clarify the Elven Generalist Wizardry ACF does not stack with the Collegiate Wizard feat. If you have both you still only get 4 spells each level up, not 7.
Huh? They totally stack. Collegiate Wizard overwrites your normal spell gain ("Each time you gain a wizard level, you may add four spells to your spellbook without additional research") while Elven Generalist is a flat addition ("At each new wizard level, she gains one extra spell of any spell level that she can cast.")

[Thrudd]

Thanks, so in order to be an effective wizard one must pay a nice sum to accumulate more spells? 2 a level seems little

To be an effective wizard one must be an adventurer willing to search out scrolls and spell books wherever they can (and also to get the gold required for materials to copy those spells). That is why wizards would go on adventures rather than sitting in a library forever studying, because it is the only way to really become more powerful. This is how it is meant to be, a scroll found in the loot should be an exciting thing for a wizard. Defeating an enemy wizard and getting their spell book, or finding a whole library is even more exciting.

[PaucaTerrorem]

Collegiate Wizard - http://dndtools.eu/feats/complete-arcane--55/collegiate-wizard--382/

[Andezzar]

Huh? They totally stack. Collegiate Wizard overwrites your normal spell gain ("Each time you gain a wizard level, you may add four spells to your spellbook without additional research") while Elven Generalist is a flat addition ("At each new wizard level, she gains one extra spell of any spell level that she can cast.")The problem is the overwriting that collegiate wizard does. It overwrites not only the normal two, but also the extra one from the ACF.


To be an effective wizard one must be an adventurer willing to search out scrolls and spell books wherever they can (and also to get the gold required for materials to copy those spells). That is why wizards would go on adventures rather than sitting in a library forever studying, because it is the only way to really become more powerful. This is how it is meant to be, a scroll found in the loot should be an exciting thing for a wizard. Defeating an enemy wizard and getting their spell book, or finding a whole library is even more exciting.If you plan to amass spells, Boccob's Blessed Book (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#blessedBook) is a good investment. Craft or buy it ASAP.

[Grod_The_Giant]

The problem is the overwriting that collegiate wizard does. It overwrites not only the normal two, but also the extra one from the ACF.[QUOTE]
Ah, hmm. Seems to be an order of operations problem. Is there a rule somewhere on which would apply first, or would it be a DM's call?

[QUOTE]If you plan to amass spells, Boccob's Blessed Book (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#blessedBook) is a good investment. Craft or buy it ASAP.
There's also a half-scale version in one of the Eberron Books. (Auron's spellshard, I think it's called?)-- exactly half the slots and half the pages.

[Slipperychicken]

Honestly, the cost for scribing new spells isn't much compared to the treasure you should be getting. Even if you scribe way more spells than necessary, the fighter will spend much more on his sword than you will on your spellbook.


Also, if you're really worried about spells known and spellbook protection, you could play with the "easy bake no worries (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=325933)" wizard build. As the name suggests, that build makes playing a Wizard much easier: Basically, it doesn't need a spellbook at all (so you don't need to worry about someone stealing it), you get 5 bonus spells known per level instead of 2, and can still learn spells the normal way in addition to that.

[Vortenger]

Generally, order of operations is any order you wish, unless a rule says otherwise. I see no reason you could not apply Collegiate Wizard and then apply Elven Wizardry.

[Andezzar]

Generally, order of operations is any order you wish, unless a rule says otherwise. I see no reason you could not apply Collegiate Wizard and then apply Elven Wizardry.The order is fixed (see PHB p. 58 f). Unfortunately the rules do not specify when to apply level dependent benefits of feats (e.g. Collegiate Wizard). New Feats are added before new spells.