Class Tiers and Builds for a Low Level Campaign?

[Lord Lemming]

So the DM and I are collaborating to world-build our Pathfinder setting. Scary, I know, but we’re siblings, neither of us are particularly experienced at playing D&D, even less so playing Pathfinder, and we’re planning on switching DM duties from time to time.

One of the things we’ve agreed on is to limit this particular world to 9th level characters, maybe 13th level (as recommended by the Pathfinder core rulebook) at the high end. We figure that if we go any higher, then we can’t justify how a nation of low-level NPCs could even exist in the face of beings that could provide challenges to us. Or how it could even exist in our faces, period, at that point.

Since our only Pathfinder resources at the moment are the Core Rulebook and the Bestiary, my question is how class tiers stack up with such limited level and build restrictions. The general consensus (or so I’ve heard) is that casters such as Clerics, Druids and Wizards are at the top of the heap, with Sorcerers beneath them and all the other core classes beneath them. But that assumption is probably referring to how they perform at high levels, and also how they do with an expanded set of rules.

So how does a 9th level fighter whose feat selection is limited to the core rulebook stack up to a 9th level wizard whose spell selection is limited to the core rulebook? What could you do to optimize a build with 9 levels and one rulebook to work with? Go wild; anything you guys can come up will probably be news to me.

[Endarire]

What about moving the campaign off-plane once the group is about to reach level 9ish? Clerics do get plane shift. Portals and plot may also move people off-plane.

This planar progression is how I solved things.

[CyberThread]

Fighter swings a sword.

Wizard polymorphs into a 5 headed hydra.


Does that help compare?

[Z3ro]

Fighter swings a sword.

Wizard polymorphs into a 5 headed hydra.


Does that help compare?

I've always found this a curious example, as a well-build fighter should be able to take down a wizard-turned-hydra, unless the wizard devotes some resources to improving polymorphing, such as more spells and feats.

[CyberThread]

Notice you say well built. While a wizard just cast a spell

[kpumphre]

Wizard Casts Never skitter so he goes first in combat

Quicken Pit trap, Then casts fly on him self. He then reigns down fireballs against the fighter, their is also teleport, and a list of others. A wizard wouldn't actually bother with polymorph when he could just teleport the Fighter in to a volcano with Lava.

This is from someone who mainly plays non magic users. I'm sure the people who play wizards could you a lot better descriptions of what they would do

[Dusk Eclipse]

So the DM and I are collaborating to world-build our Pathfinder setting. Scary, I know, but we’re siblings, neither of us are particularly experienced at playing D&D, even less so playing Pathfinder, and we’re planning on switching DM duties from time to time.

One of the things we’ve agreed on is to limit this particular world to 9th level characters, maybe 13th level (as recommended by the Pathfinder core rulebook) at the high end. We figure that if we go any higher, then we can’t justify how a nation of low-level NPCs could even exist in the face of beings that could provide challenges to us. Or how it could even exist in our faces, period, at that point.

Since our only Pathfinder resources at the moment are the Core Rulebook and the Bestiary, my question is how class tiers stack up with such limited level and build restrictions. The general consensus (or so I’ve heard) is that casters such as Clerics, Druids and Wizards are at the top of the heap, with Sorcerers beneath them and all the other core classes beneath them. But that assumption is probably referring to how they perform at high levels, and also how they do with an expanded set of rules.

So how does a 9th level fighter whose feat selection is limited to the core rulebook stack up to a 9th level wizard whose spell selection is limited to the core rulebook? What could you do to optimize a build with 9 levels and one rulebook to work with? Go wild; anything you guys can come up will probably be news to me.

No it isn't (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/home)

[Z3ro]

Wizard Casts Never skitter so he goes first in combat

Quicken Pit trap, Then casts fly on him self. He then reigns down fireballs against the fighter, their is also teleport, and a list of others. A wizard wouldn't actually bother with polymorph when he could just teleport the Fighter in to a volcano with Lava.

This is from someone who mainly plays non magic users. I'm sure the people who play wizards could you a lot better descriptions of what they would do

Well sure, but the example given was polymorph, which is why I questioned it (especially how often it comes up in general).

[Lord Lemming]

Wizard Casts Never skitter so he goes first in combat

Quicken Pit trap, Then casts fly on him self. He then reigns down fireballs against the fighter, their is also teleport, and a list of others. A wizard wouldn't actually bother with polymorph when he could just teleport the Fighter in to a volcano with Lava.

This is from someone who mainly plays non magic users. I'm sure the people who play wizards could you a lot better descriptions of what they would do

Well, unless I'm looking for the wrong spell, 'Never Skitter' isn't in the core rulebook, neither is Pit Trap, and Teleport only works on willing targets. Fly would definately give the Wizard the advantage, though, even if the fighter had a ranged weapon.

I do get the point, though. A 9th level Wizard has a lot more options than a 9th level Fighter, though if the fighter manages to stay in Melee range and/or play smart he's still got a chance at knocking the Wizard out early on. But the Wizard still has the advantage.

But here's another question, does a 9th level wizard have no need for a fighter's support? Can a 9th level wizard still effectively fight if there's no meat shield to soak up the damage, keep the baddies at bay, and dish out the hurt?

[Lord Lemming]

No it isn't (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/home)

Oh. Well, there is that. Thanks for the heads up:smallsmile: Ok, something more specific: Are there build options here for a 9th level fighter that are better than you would find in the Core Rulebook?

[kpumphre]

As I said I don't play wizards, just with them. However they can do Melee just as well at higher levels. Heck our Cleric put the Barbarian to shame and I was barley able to match the Ac of the wizard at 12 level (46 ranged 42 melee) he was withing 1 or 2 points either above or below me.

That was playing as a scout, and he had the heart series up for fortification. I love my melee builds cause no matter what I do, I can keep doing it all day, Same with my warlocks. But spell casters are powerful enough to not need to do it all day at higher levels.

[Lord Lemming]

Hmmm. This doesn't bode well; the guy playing the party healer is basing his cleric off of some anime character who he describes as 'pure evil.' The girl playing our rogue has a long-standing habit of being, at best, chaotic neutral with a dash of evil whenever she finds it amusing.

And I am playing a Neutral Good Fighter. Aww, c**p.

Whenever I play with the chaotic girl, we always wind up at odds because I find myself unable to roleplay characters that aren't 'good.' As such my characters can't stand her characters because of their murderous tendencies; and she can't stand my characters because they are, in her words, boring. It is boring to be merciful rather than murderous.

Now, in RL I'm good friends with both of these people. Our differences in roleplaying lead to mock anger and real laughter rather than any actual emnity. But on the other hand I'm going to be playing a fighter who stands a more than even chance of having to fight a rogue who can one-shot him with a sneak attack (at 1st level) and a cleric who can spontaneously cast Inflict spells.

Any tips on surviving a confrontation like this? Best I can figure is taking the Step Up feat at some point so that the cleric is forced to stay in melee range rather than hitting me at range.

[Big Fau]

Oh. Well, there is that. Thanks for the heads up:smallsmile: Ok, something more specific: Are there build options here for a 9th level fighter that are better than you would find in the Core Rulebook?

Core Fighters are utter crap, even in PF (especially in PF, as the few good Core-only builds for a Fighter were nerfed into obsoletion).

[broodax]

Oh. Well, there is that. Thanks for the heads up:smallsmile: Ok, something more specific: Are there build options here for a 9th level fighter that are better than you would find in the Core Rulebook?

The Horizon Tripper (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCgQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.giantitp.com%2Fforums%2Fshowt hread.php%3Ft%3D80415&ei=1ekpU6XiL4GGyAGuq4DYAw&usg=AFQjCNG7uXWny_LN-AOVm-r3RCVg9SqzQw&sig2=aCHCBfvSgxaL86GSiFyUOw&bvm=bv.62922401,d.aWc) is generally regarded as the strongest (and perhaps only "strong") fighter-type character in core-only.

Oh, Pathfinder... I don't know then, but yes, you'll have a harder time optimizing tripping for sure.