[3.5e] Warforged Bard?

[Aldhissla]

After reading through my Eberron books, I've taken an ephemeral liking to the Warforged again. I find the inherent questions of identity and personhood surrounding them fascinating.

In particular, I'm wanting to work out a build for a character with 2 of the levels in the Reforged PrC (to flesh out its emotional and 'human' aspect without losing its Warforged feats, of course).

My initial thoughts were for a singing Bard with the Bardic Sage ACF to key spellcasting off of Int instead of Cha (and ignoring the low DCs by only using buffs) and having interpersonal skills buffed by Extroverted and the like.

But then I got around to thinking about combat when it does finally break out, and I don't quite know what it'd be doing; I prefer the idea of melee but I'm not so keen on Dragonfire Inspiration from a fluff perspective, and Snowflake Wardance would be less useful to me because of the low Charisma.

So I think my question for this thread is could a Warforged Bard melee effectively with Fighter dips and Natural Weapon feats like Jaws of Death?

... Or should I simply pick a different base class that has Full BAB and a few Face skills?

I guess that all books and such open, since this is another theoretical fever-dream of mine.

[Brookshw]

No build advise here, just wanted to stop in and suggest you're uniquely positioned to take ranks in perform player piano / piano roll.

[Fouredged Sword]

I just read that class, and I want to do the following for a high level game.

Warforged dungeoncrasher fighter 6 / Warforged charger 5 / Reforged 2.

Reforged removes the penalty to healing caused by warforged charger!!!!

As for the bard angle.

Well, you don't tire, and that low charisma makes me think going for spells with saves is a loosing proposition. I suggest just doing melee well. Get a nice rapier and get weapon finesse and assassin's stance / Shadow blade and dex/str your way to victory. You can hold a rapier two handed for 2x power attack bonuses on top of str and dex to damage and inspire courage will keep your attack bonus up.

Buff up and charge in!

[Aldhissla]

*Edit* Finally saw the words "player piano" and got the joke.

As for the rapier and such, maybe I didn't read all of the feats correctly. But what allows you to 2-hand a rapier and gain 2-for-1 Power Attack?

[Fouredged Sword]

Nevermind, I was reading the general rules for one handed weapons and didn't catch that a rapier explicitly overrules the general rule...

Oh, well, take another shadow hand weapon that can be wielded two handed and don't dump strength. Getting 1.5x str and 1x dex and 2x power attack on attack and damage rolls works great. You are stuck with Str to attacks, but just don't dump it.

[Aldhissla]

I was favoring toward Strength over Dex, anyway. So far I'm leaning toward Power Attack and when possible, Jaws of Death and then Second Slam. That way, the three natural attacks plus whatever I get from BAB would be enough to sate me.

Assuming the hypothetical DM agrees with the notion that Slam attacks are made with an elbow or knee or something, that is.

[Nihilarian]

So you want to play a Warforged (charisma penalty) melee bard, focusing on a form of melee combat bards aren't particularly good at (natural weapons) and you don't want to use Dragonfire Inspiration or Snowflake Wardance, going into a fairly weak PrC? That's kinda tough.

I suppose you might be able to do bard/crusader or warblade. I wouldn't take more than 2 levels of Reforged.

[Aldhissla]

So you want to play a Warforged (charisma penalty) melee bard, focusing on a form of melee combat bards aren't particularly good at (natural weapons) and you don't want to use Dragonfire Inspiration or Snowflake Wardance, going into a fairly weak PrC? That's kinda tough.

I suppose you might be able to do bard/crusader or warblade. I wouldn't take more than 2 levels of Reforged.

That's my almost intentionally-difficult plan, yeah. The PrC is entirely for the RP, really. But 2 levels in it is my limit. And I guess I could (really, I should) read into the Initiator classes... I never learned the maneuver system.

[Shining Wrath]

That's my almost intentionally-difficult plan, yeah. The PrC is entirely for the RP, really. But 2 levels in it is my limit. And I guess I could (really, I should) read into the Initiator classes... I never learned the maneuver system.

Of the ToB classes, the one that has synergy with Int is Warblade; synergy with Cha, Crusader.

For compatibility with Bard, the Warblade is a medium armor type with D12 HD, the Crusader a heavy armor + shield type with D10 HD, so I'd say Warblade works better there.

If you want to do natural weapons, some of the ToB disciplines support that; consider Setting Sun.

[Brookshw]

*Edit* Finally saw the words "player piano" and got the joke.


If there was a pre-edit I missed it and am curious what it was (also promise not to be offended).

[Aldhissla]

If there was a pre-edit I missed it and am curious what it was (also promise not to be offended).

I only said that I had thought up carbon copies of Daft Punk or Steam Powered Giraffe in the past, but I was not familiar with any fictional robot character named "Piano Roll."

Derp. :smallredface:

[Fouredged Sword]

You know, a bardblade may work. You can take bard 1 / Warblade X / Reforged 2 / Warblade X.

It still gets inspire courage and much better melee. You can go to town with a greatsword.

[Aldhissla]

I'm attempting to read up on Warblade now, with the natural attacks (if any) now just being a goodie on the side of the greatsword.

(Although this discussion has made me wonder if a Racial Sub Artificer or a Totemist or something could make a monstrous punch-machine out of a Warforged.)

I'm also fond of falchions, if the enemies being dealt with aren't undead or plants or swarms or other (full) constructs. Though granted that's a lot of 'if's...

[Brookshw]

I only said that I had thought up carbon copies of Daft Punk or Steam Powered Giraffe in the past, but I was not familiar with any fictional robot character named "Piano Roll."

Derp. :smallredface:

Wait, there's a character named piano roll? I was punning on the technology. +1 derp for me too it seems.

[Aldhissla]

Wait, there's a character named piano roll? I was punning on the technology. +1 derp for me too it seems.

Oh, no, not to my knowledge. I had thought you were referring to a character, then realized you were punning when I found no such character on the internet.

I believe that's a double-derp on our part.

[Nihilarian]

I'm attempting to read up on Warblade now, with the natural attacks (if any) now just being a goodie on the side of the greatsword.

(Although this discussion has made me wonder if a Racial Sub Artificer or a Totemist or something could make a monstrous punch-machine out of a Warforged.)

I'm also fond of falchions, if the enemies being dealt with aren't undead or plants or swarms or other (full) constructs. Though granted that's a lot of 'if's...I highly recommend Shocking Fist (Player's Guide to Eberron, p. 151) as well as a reliable way to heal yourself.

For reliable healing, you want Crusader (for Devoted Spirit maneuvers), Artificer or Psion. The one that matches your concept the vest would be Bard 1/Crusader x/Reforged 2/Crusader y with the Song of the White Raven feat.

[Aldhissla]

I highly recommend Shocking Fist (Player's Guide to Eberron, p. 151)

I'm surprised I missed that one, thanks! Those d4s could definitely pile up quickly. o.o

[Nihilarian]

I'm surprised I missed that one, thanks! Those d4s could definitely pile up quickly. o.oCombine with Power Attack and Knowledge Devotion for maximum power. And don't forget your Battlefist!

Yeah, when a warforged built for punching punches you, you stay punched.

[Aldhissla]

Funny, I've heard a lot of high things about Knowledge Devotion in my time here. But I have no idea what it does.

Off to the internet with me!

*Edit to avoid double-posting* And if I could locate some sufficient self-healing besides Devoted Spirit, I think I'll make it Warblade instead of Crusader because of the Intelligence synergy I've heard about.

[Nihilarian]

Funny, I've heard a lot of high things about Knowledge Devotion in my time here. But I have no idea what it does.

Off to the internet with me!

*Edit to avoid double-posting* And if I could locate some sufficient self-healing besides Devoted Spirit, I think I'll make it Warblade instead of Crusader because of the Intelligence synergy I've heard about.Oh, you could take Martial Study to get the healing maneuvers. For that matter, you can go into Jade Phoenix Mage, which let's you draw from Devoted Spirit maneuvers. You'll have less Inspire Courage, though.

[Brookshw]

Oh, no, not to my knowledge. I had thought you were referring to a character, then realized you were punning when I found no such character on the internet.

I believe that's a double-derp on our part.

A double deep it is then :smallbiggrin:

Hope it at least earned a chuckle!

[Aldhissla]

Oh, you could take Martial Study to get the healing maneuvers. For that matter, you can go into Jade Phoenix Mage, which let's you draw from Devoted Spirit maneuvers. You'll have less Inspire Courage, though.

Martial Study it is, then. I knew there was a discipline-dipping feat. Thanks!


A double deep it is then :smallbiggrin:

Hope it at least earned a chuckle!

Heheh. Indeed it did!

[Nihilarian]

Martial Study it is, then. I knew there was a discipline-dipping feat. Thanks!Wait a minute. I forgot you we're going into Reforged; you benefit from magical healing. That takes some of the pressure off, you might be able to make due without Devoted Spirit maneuvers. Hrrm.

[Fouredged Sword]

Another thought is to use a battle fist, and pick up supreme unarmed strike and beast strike. It gets you unarmed strikes a little weaker than a monks, but then applies your slam damage and any enhancements on your battlefist to the damage as well. Mix well with a friendly wizard who casts greater mighty wallop twice and you find yourself with a 12d6 base damage weapon.

[Aldhissla]

Wait a minute. I forgot you we're going into Reforged; you benefit from magical healing. That takes some of the pressure off, you might be able to make due without Devoted Spirit maneuvers. Hrrm.

... Waitaminute. I have bard levels. I can use a Happy Stick or something without even needing UMD.


Another thought is to use a battle fist, and pick up supreme unarmed strike and beast strike. It gets you unarmed strikes a little weaker than a monks, but then applies your slam damage and any enhancements on your battlefist to the damage as well. Mix well with a friendly wizard who casts greater mighty wallop twice and you find yourself with a 12d6 base damage weapon.

The interesting thing about the Battlefists is that while they do count as +1 gauntlet weapons in their own right, they buff Warforged Slam damage separately. So you wouldn't be required to make unarmed strikes to benefit from part of the item. I think.

[Fouredged Sword]

Yes, but you can apply mighty wallop to both your unarmed strikes and slam attack, and this causes them to stack, maxing out your base damage somewhere around 16d6 with full iterative attacks + 2 extra slams. Go crazy, throw snap kick in there for another unarmed strike on every attack (even maneuvers).

Beast strike is a feat that allows you to automatically add your slam or claw damage whenever you hit a target with your unarmed strike. This adds a ton of damage when you have a walloped to colossal battle first.