Building a world with no "classical" D&D races

[ZeroZeroStyx]

First of all hello everyone. English not being my mother language, I hope I could make myself clear enough and with few enough grammar and spelling mistakes so it's readable at all. Please do not hesitate to tell me if you do not understand what I'm trying to say :smallwink:

As the tittle says, I would like to create a setting ( I do not know if it's relevant, but I plan to use PF rules) without any of the "classical" races of D&D : no elf, no dwarf, no halfelin, no gnome.

The point of this is to surprise my players : core races are well known by most of the players, and I don't want to just twist these races by making elves barbarian raiders for example. I plan to take them out of the pictures, leaving only the human from the core races (with probably the half-orc available too, providing I keep orcs in the picture). But also don't want to make a setting with only humans, so I would like to make other races available for character creation.

The point is not to develop crunch about those races (That's for the Homebrew section I believe), but to talk about the fluff of those races. I have few ideas for races and I would like to have some insight from you about what I've thought and what I should think. Pretty please ? :smallsmile:

Medusas

The first I've thought of is medusas (weaker than the original, the point is to design PF LA+0 races not overwhelmingly powerful) : these snake-haired ladies are the offspring of the Snake-Mother, the original medusa created by a daring but maybe foolish wizard, centuries ago. The creature managed to escape from the city and found a safe haven in some ruins in a deadly swamp. There she abducted some human folks from the villages nearby, for both slavery and mating issues. She gave birth to other weaker medusas, who mated with human males and gave birth to even weaker medusas, and so on. Recently they decided to extend their grasp within human cities by building first-class brothels in all of the major cities, killing two birds with one stone : the mate comes to the medusa, and he even pays for it !

The Minotaurs

These bullheaded humanoids (medium sized, weaker than the iconic D&D minotaur for equilibrium matters) are famous for being great blacksmiths and architects. A castle built by minotaurs is the most sturdy place that a noble can possibly afford, and their magical weapons are also well-known and long sought after.

I'm a little concerned about them, cause the way I want them seem very dwarf-like. Any ideas on how to make them special ?

The other races :

I do not know exactly what races to add. So far I have thought of the following :
- dryads
- vampires (not the overpowered D&D one, actually, probably using the half vampire dhampyr from PF)
- maybe an amphibious humanoid species, assuming they can live on the dryland without too much trouble : there's no point in making them a playable race if they can't stay with the other ones
- maybe a tieffling civilization, reminder of an old pact sworn by some of their ancestors. I like the idea but I find it a little cliche.
- any other one you might think of !

Basically, the point is to have five to seven playable races and cover all the bases of Pathfinder classes : I'd like to have for each class a viable alternative for the always-a-good-choice human. So far I have some of them covered :
- The medusa will probably a high dex, high charisma and low wisdom race, probably a good option for bards, sorcerers, summoner, oracle rogue and so on...
- The minotaur will be a high strength, high intel and low charisma (or maybe dex, I'm not sure about it yet) will ensure good barbarians, fighters and magus. Even wizards, witches and cavaliers (providing a steroid horse or an alternative mount) !
- The dryads could provide a good high wisdom race for wisdom-based classes : clerics, druids, inquisitors, even ranger...


Thanks for reading, hope you can help me through this ! :smalleek:

[Ormvsay]

What about Kenku or Tibbit? Or Lizardfolk?

[BladeofObliviom]

I actually ran a game like this a long time ago, in a world where a Zendikar-esque Roil ended up wiping out civilization and driving every race mentioned in the PHB to extinction. :smalltongue:

Anyway, to be actually on topic, have you looked at Hobgoblin? It's a decent race without any RHD and a more or less insignificant LA, and they make decent Rogues without any modifications.

[VoxRationis]

Hobgoblins make decent anything-that's-not-a-spellcaster. +2 to Dex and Con and no ability score penalties. Yeah, level adjustment's a problem, but that doesn't apply to world-building.
Really, a race of disciplined, militaristic, fast-breeding goblinoids, each one as tough as a dwarf and as nimble as an elf should be the terror of campaign settings everywhere. Orcs aren't nearly as scary.

[ZeroZeroStyx]

Thanks for your help :smallsmile:

I forgot to mention that the medusas teamed up in their swamp with a bunch of scaled-creatures, including lizard-folks, hydras and maybe a black-dragon or two. This explains easily why the human could not bring them to extinction earlier...

As for the Hobgobelins, I didn't think of it. May be a good Idea to make them a civilization other had to deal with, Eberron style or such.

Any other ideas ? :smallredface:

[Domriso]

If you're looking for inspiration for Minotaurs, I always enjoyed the way they were presented in the webcomic Looking For Group.

Most of the goblinoid races would make fun races to play. Goblins are the tinier cousins of the Hobs, and Bugbears, so long as you reduce some of their racial hit die and the like, are very similar.

Lizardfolk and Kobolds are good if you want a reptilian route, especially Kobolds. Small sized trap makers? Yes please. It would also make sense storywise, since Kobolds are often described as being kept down by the Gnomes.
Hell, even Troglodytes could work.

Gnolls are another race you could mod into an interesting race, especially if you decide not to include Orcs.

If your players are unaware of them, both Goliaths and Raptorans are atypical races which could be fun to play around with.

In fact, the environmental books (Frostburn, Sandstorm, Stormwrack) have some wonderful variant races in them, such as the Darfellan, which could be very nice.

Centaurs can make interesting races to play, but they are generally seen as somewhat difficult to work into campaigns.

There's also the races from the Eberron Campaign Setting which are somewhat atypical. Shifters, Warforged, Changelings, &c.

For more monstrous races, a quick look through the SRD shows some possibilities. With a little tweaking, the Araena could make a good race.
The Azer, if powered down, could be an interesting race.
The Ettercap is another monster that could be reflavored as an emergent race.
The Sahuagin could make another fun race to introduce, especially if you still include the Malenti subrace, because they would no longer have the great camouflage ability.
Fitting with your Medusa/Minotaur route, the Satyr could be a good choice.

In general, if you're willing to work with the races, there are quite a few interesting choices.

[Balyano]

Have you considered taking races from elsewhere and just sticking them in a dnd setting? Easy to imagine the Centauri Republic from Babylon 5 in a medieval setting. Or the Nebari or Luxans from Farscape. Both of those have 3.5 compatible or near compatible games. For something less human the Pierson's Puppeteers and Kzinti from Known Space, they even come with culture and traditions that work in any setting, like the Kzinti naming and honorific conventions and the Puppeteers grooming, cowardice, and insanity. Their data isn't 3.5 compatible, but the ringworld rpg book is awesome, you could take one of the numerous species in it and use them for flavor and just make traits for them. Like the Ghouls, basically nocturnal humanoid scavengers, not evil either, and usually preside over funerary rights for other races. Or the Grass Giants, large sized grass eating humanoids that war with the Red Herders, rather petite pastoralists that mate for life. And Mud People, who are beautiful, but when they hit middle aged many of them transform into large sized Swamp Ogres. Of course no Mud Person thinks that they will turn.

[Yora]

There's lots of alien species that make for great fantasy races.
In my setting, Lizardfolk are basically Turians and there's a culture of water genasi alchemists based on Quarians (who always wear robes and hoods, since they immediately get sunburned). The dominant race of the Underworld is based on the Collectors.
The mountain beastmen are a blend of Cathar and Feeorin from KotOR.

The only standard race in the setting are wood elves. (While gnomes are in D&D, they get so much overlooked they can hardly be called a standard major race.)

[ZeroZeroStyx]

Thanks for all these ideas folks :smallsmile:

I'm not really familiar with all the shows/video games/rpg you may have mentionned, but it's true I never thought about using species from other medias/games.

I'm not fond of the Satyr, because I want to avoid an all Greek-Mythology setting (having minotaur, medusa and maybe dryad is already much).

The idea of a spiderlike-humanoid race is quite appealing I have to admit. What if the Ettercaps were a structured civilization ? Seems quite surprising to me...

It also could be an interesting idea if all the races were hybrids of human and another species in some sort. So far I already have :
- Medusa, hybrid of snake and woman
- Minotaur, bull-like humanoid
- Dryad, tree-like species
- Spiderlings, spider-like thing
- maybe some kind of Kuo-Tua of Sahuagin species
- some other species I do not think of yet...

I'm kind of concerned about allowing amphibious races as PC. Seems logical to me that such races are not meant to stay on drylands for long, and as such they should have some RP/gameplay restriction in order to reflect that point, but if it's true, a player picking that race may hinder the whole group.

On the other hand, flying races are probably too powerful, especially at lower levels were the other races cannot compete, so I guess flying races should be banned as PC.

Thanks for your help :smallredface:

[Beelzebub1111]

Well, if you want a setting with no "Classical" anything there's tgweaver's Quorum (http://tgweaver.tumblr.com/tagged/quorum) setting. He doesn't have any official rules for it, but he has pages and pages of back-story describing a wholly unique world and races.

[Yora]

A true amphibian species (rather than just amphibious) would be unable to survive outside of wet and moist areas for long. But that doesn't neccessarily have to stop you, since a large number of fantasy creatures ignore certain aspects of real world animals. You couldn't really have giant spiders, because existing spider species don't have any lungs and their breathing system can't be scaled up to any size. But there isn't really any reason why certain species of spider couldn't have evolved lungs that allow them to grow significantly larger.
In the same way, normal amphibians need to be kept wet, but fictional ones could have evolved traits that allows them to stay out of water for much longer time than their smaller cousins. It's not exactly uncommon for closely ralated species to have sometimes drastically different anatomies.

A two week trip through the desert with a fishman pal would likely be still out of the question. But you could easily imagine some fish people who always wear heavy robes and drink 10 liters of water per day to keep dehydrating on an average summer day. Having a buddy who is always kinda exhausted until he gets to a cool place doesn't really prevent the party from traveling to less hospitable environments. It just adds another challenge to the whole thing. I think it can sometimes even be very interesting if the party has to find a way to drag allong one of their companions who is really not taking the environment very well.

[Balyano]

Well the skeleton is more the problem with giant spiders than respiratory system. Spiders originally evolved book-lungs, which in theory could evolve into a form that works for a big animal. Several spider lineages independently evolved a trachea system like an insects. Some spiders have one system, the other, or both. So giant spider is more feasible than giant insect. The skeleton is a problem, but I bet you could hand wave it as stronger material, or having heavily reinforced skeleton in certain structural points with the rest being thinner. Not sure how well it would work, but it is fantasy after all.

As for the amphibians, could be like toads, they resist dessication pretty well. Or if its just something amphibious, crocodile like lizard cajuns, or otter pirates, or hippo vikings, or beaver canadian lumberjacks could be cool.

[Makeitstop]

I've been planning on doing this for some time now. The core races have never really interested me all that much. I'm planning on eventually making a setting that's basically core free, other than humans, and maybe not even them. (Well, technically I'm planning on the other races existing on other continents and being completely reimagined, but that's beside the point since the party would never see them).

I've been keeping this in mind when working on my homebrew races, trying to cover all my bases and have diverse options. Here's what I've got so far (these are just brief summaries, the links contain much more detail). If you seen anything you like, feel free to take it.

Enkindlers (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?311518-PF-Spiker-Conversion-Reimagining-And-A-New-Homebrew-Race-Enkindlers) - An unusual race that while roughly humanoid in shape, has four legs instead of two, and can walk along walls with ease. They are clever and agile, but ofetn lack common sense. They travel a lot, but hail from the mountains. (The description in the link is setting specific, from a previous campaign, but that's easily adapted. As with any race you want the same feel, not necessarily the same history).

Komodo (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?334211-Redesigning-Lizardfolk-and-Gargoyles-as-Player-Races-plus-Rhinotaurs-PEACH) - Essentially a reimagined lizardfolk with more flavor and variety, the komodo are divided as a society, with traditionalists living in the wilds struggling against the modern city dwellers that are building a trading empire with other races.

Gargoyles (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?334211-Redesigning-Lizardfolk-and-Gargoyles-as-Player-Races-plus-Rhinotaurs-PEACH) - Gargoyles are essentially a race of winged statues made flesh, though there are hints of their true nature still present. The gargoyles were once a proud and prosperous people, but their homeland was destroyed long ago, and now they are a scattered race of refugees. They are territorial guardians who usually survive by making pacts to defend settlements and factions.

Rhinotaurs (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?334211-Redesigning-Lizardfolk-and-Gargoyles-as-Player-Races-plus-Rhinotaurs-PEACH&p=17096896&viewfull=1#post17096896) - Rhinotaurs are a race of humanoid rhinos, filling the wise warrior race niche. They are thoughtful and disciplined, valuing wisdom above all else. They were originally created by a powerful sorcerer to be his army and conquer all that stood in his way. Because of this, they abhor wars of conquest and seek to facilitate trade and diplomacy as a society, though many individuals are happy to become soldiers of fortune elsewhere. In addition, they have a gift for magic, a legacy from their original creation.

Finfolk (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?338600-Finfolk-a-homebrew-race-for-NPCs-and-Player-Characters) - Finfolk are an aquatic fey race who dwell in hidden cities beneath the waves. They are less than friendly, having a long standing tradition of kidnapping surface dwellers to serve as slaves. Still, many finfolk walk among the surface dwellers in disguise, either as agents of the finfolk, or as runaways. To the common people, finfolk are creatures of myth and legend, often used to scare children, and reason enough to be paranoid about strangers.


I'm also planning on a few more, but haven't gotten around to making them yet. The next one will probably be the trow, a small sized race of mischievous magic users and thieves. They are cunning, treacherous, often cowardly, and always dangerous. And they love to sing (http://youtu.be/K85s7EQ7g4Q?t=14s).

[VoxRationis]

Actually, if I am not mistaken, there were pseudo-reptilian amphibian groups (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reptiliomorph) in the past; the main problem for amphibians is that they have to lay their eggs somewhere wet. Otherwise, you can have dry-skinned, land-adapted amphibians; we just don't have them now because their descendants, true reptiles, outcompeted them.
In fact, the need for a reliable source of water for breeding could be seen as a reason for the group to have developed sentience and tool use (tools allow pots, which allow carrying water, which allow mobile breeding pools).

[BladeofObliviom]

In fact, the need for a reliable source of water for breeding could be seen as a reason for the group to have developed sentience and tool use (tools allow pots, which allow carrying water, which allow mobile breeding pools).

While this is an interesting idea to provoke thought, there are some serious problems. The most relevant being that, as far as prehistoric technology goes, Pottery is pretty close to the peak. Keep in mind that the actual ability to produce functional pottery relies on mastery of several other tools, including fingers capable of molding and kneading clay, mastery of fire sufficient to reach about 1100 degrees centigrade, a sedentary enough lifestyle (or division of labor) to be able to sit around and mold clay instead of foraging, and enough cognition to understand a hypothetical use for a product that does not exist yet and take steps to produce such a product.

Nevertheless, you might be on to something. What if the early tools in question were instead simple sticks used to dig under dry ground to the moisture a few inches beneath the surface? Or large, cuplike leaves that can retain rainwater well enough to be used as bowls?

In fact, the leaves might even benefit from a form of evolutionary mutualism: If they originally evolved to encourage animals to drink from them (and then attach their seeds to the animal's fur like Beggarticks), then intentional use of them to move water by tool-using amphibians would help spread their seeds as well.

[VoxRationis]

Sorry; I didn't mean fired pots, for all the reasons you listed. I meant a basic, watertight container, reasonably rigid and durable, that could be carried. I said "pots" because "baskets" doesn't quite work as a description for that. Hollowed gourds are a good start.

Also, foraging societies have about a 4-hour workday, depending on the environment and diet; the main limitation on crafting is the difficulties in constructing specialized facilities and storing resources. (This is also the saving grace of elves, in my opinion; between their reduced workday and reduced inactivity time, they get 8 hours a day more to work on crafting and investments in materiel.)

[Makeitstop]

This is basically the line of thought I followed with the Komodo I mentioned above. They hatch in the water but quickly develop into air breathing dry skinned creatures with more reptilian features, though they retain their ability to breathe underwater.

My thinking is, intelligence is good for survival in their natural environment for multiple reasons. The first is that some of the magical plants and animals in the wilds use illusions and enchantment to lure in prey, and a more intelligent creature is more likely to avoid such tricks.

The second is the need to protect eggs. They would be able to construct a sturdy fence in a swamp, make a pool in a defensible cave, build a simple watertight nest in a tree or even carry eggs in portable containers, whatever it takes to keep the eggs safe.

The third would be working as a group and using tactics. Particularly useful would be the ability to move between water and trees, since humanoids are particularly well designed for climbing, and most other creatures would not be well adapted for both environments. It would take considerable intelligence to fully utilize the ability to move back and forth between different environments.

[jseah]

You may be interested in this thread:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?248345-No-Humans-Allowed