What's the worst build you can come up with?

[troqdor1316]

I got the idea for this thread when I was tossing around the idea for a character who never advanced past level 1 in any class, and used 1 level from each PHB class.

What's the worst, most useless, absolutely underpowered 20 level build you can come up with?

Extra points to anyone who can figure out a way to make a useless build actually useful.

[geekintheground]

inb4 monk 20

[BrokenChord]

inb4 monk 20

Noob. It's all about Fighter 3/Truenamer 17.

(Not my actual reply to the thread. I'll make a more complex and deeply terrible build when inspiration strikes)

[d13]

inb4 truenamer 20

FTFY.

fillerfillerfiller

[troqdor1316]

inb4 monk 20


Oh come now, be more creative. I'm sure there's a few absolutely useless 1 level dips you could throw in there, like maybe 1 level in...hm...well, SOMETHING has to be more useless than 1 level of monk!

[docnessuno]

inb4 commoner 20

Can't go wrong with commoner.

[Shinzutalos]

1 Monk / 1 Monk / 1 Monk / 1 Monk / 1 Monk / 1 Monk / 1 Monk / 1 Monk / 1 Monk / 1 Monk / 1 Monk / 1 Monk / 1 Monk // 1 Monk // 1 Monk / 1 Monk / 1 Monk / 1 Monk / 1 Monk / 1 Monk /

Ain't I original?

[Mnemnosyne]

My first thought was Wizard with an intelligence penalty so huge he would never be able to cast spells, but I'm not familiar enough with int-reducing templates to make that build. A Feral Gully Dwarf would still allow you to end up with an Int of 16, assuming you started with an 8 from point buy, if you put all your level-up bonuses into it, got +5 inherent from a tome/wishes, and got a +6 int item. So we'd need at least -7 more worth of int-reducing templates.

[geekintheground]

My first thought was Wizard with an intelligence penalty so huge he would never be able to cast spells, but I'm not familiar enough with int-reducing templates to make that build. A Feral Gully Dwarf would still allow you to end up with an Int of 16, assuming you started with an 8 from point buy, if you put all your level-up bonuses into it, got +5 inherent from a tome/wishes, and got a +6 int item. So we'd need at least -7 more worth of int-reducing templates.

mineral warrior, half minotaur, half ogre. -6 right there and another +2 LA

[Vrock_Summoner]

Warrior 6/Suel Arcanamach 1/Arcane Duelist 10/X 3?

... Druid 19/Blighter 1?

Perhaps my creativity isn't as strong as I'd thought.

[StreamOfTheSky]

Since Monk, Truenamer, and Commoner have all been covered, I shall contribute with...

Samurai (CW version) 20. Or Soulknife 20. That's pretty bottom of the barrel, too.

[NoACWarrior]

If you mean that we tried to make the build fulfill some preconceived concept in the traditional party sense - I am currently trying to build a party support dragon shaman. Its not going well.

So far hes 12 levels (I haven't gotten him past that because I got sick and more fun stuff came up), but at Lvl 20 hes supposed to be able to heal damage infinitely. Not that you can't do that by epic levels. It's totally underwhelming, especially when I placed the PHB2 only auras on him.

Here we go - quickly building him up to 20:

20 Dragon shaman: Azurin
Max out Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate, and Perform.
Pick Copper Totem Dragon
Important abilities for reference later: Touch of Vitality (Su): touch heal 40xCha mod per day.

1st Shape Soulmeld - Therapeutic Mantle (5) - +SL additional healing self, invest for 2 additional healing
1st Shape Soulmeld - Lifebond Vestments (4) - assume ½ wounds up to 10hp one touch/hour per person, invest for +5hp per touch

3rd Healing Soul - swift action 2hp per invest usable once per day per invest, invest 1/day, +1 essentia
6th Expand Soulmeld Capacity - +1 soulmeld capacity 1/day
9th Bonus Essentia - +2 essensia
12th Improved toughness - +20 HP
15th Something giving more essentia
18th Something else utilizing incarnum

General tactics for use: use shield other rings to "bond" every other important squishy PC or NPC so that they don't get 1 hit or even 2 hit. When significant damage is dealt to the entire party healing aura kicks in with a passive, and you can use either touch of vitality for an emergency heal, or use lifebond vestments fully invested to heal 30 hp. When the threat is neutralized, you use lifebond vestments to bring everyone else to better than half HP, using healing aura to heal yourself to half HP.
Then using 1 point of healing from touch of vitality as a standard action, heal yourself for 11 points of damage. With a +10 bonus in Cha its possible to resolve party healing at a rate of 4400 HP a day.

The reason why it doesn't work: you NEVER get the heart chakra unlocked until level 21, which healing is moot at that point. Sure you can infinity use it on yourself to erase damage down to 1, or better yet use therapeutic mantle to reduce it to several uses, but thats at epic levels!! Additionally with that much bonding going on, you are likely to suck up too much damage from something simple like a fireball and die... besides the fact that favored souls can bond better than you can, and cast heal on themselves when they need to. This was just a build I was only 50% attention to until I realized it would never work as I intended it to.

[Forrestfire]

FTFY.

fillerfillerfiller

The 20th level of Truenamer includes an at-will componentless gate, and one of the coolest capstones in the game.

[Callin]

Rogue 1/ Monk 1/ Scout 1/ Favored Soul 1/ Healer 1/ Marshal 1/ Soul Knife 1/ Ninja 1/ Shugenja 1/ Sohei 1/ Spell Thief 1/ Warmage 1/ Shadow Caster 1/ True Namer 1/ Dragon Shaman 1/ Dragonfire Adept 1/ Divine Mind 1/ Harper Agent 1/ Monk of the Long Death 1/ Survivor 1


Not the worst but it sure cant do much other than make some saves lol

[Telonius]

My first thought was Wizard with an intelligence penalty so huge he would never be able to cast spells, but I'm not familiar enough with int-reducing templates to make that build. A Feral Gully Dwarf would still allow you to end up with an Int of 16, assuming you started with an 8 from point buy, if you put all your level-up bonuses into it, got +5 inherent from a tome/wishes, and got a +6 int item. So we'd need at least -7 more worth of int-reducing templates.

Vow of Poverty fixes that.

[Lord Lemming]

20 levels of Paladin with an alignment that's not LG or any brand of evil, so you can't use any of your Paladin abilities or switch over to Blackguard/Antipaladin. And you've put all your feats into buffing your Paladin abilities. And you sacrificed your strength stat to boost your charisma.

[Zanos]

Rogue 1/ Monk 1/ Scout 1/ Favored Soul 1/ Healer 1/ Marshal 1/ Soul Knife 1/ Ninja 1/ Shugenja 1/ Sohei 1/ Spell Thief 1/ Warmage 1/ Shadow Caster 1/ True Namer 1/ Dragon Shaman 1/ Dragonfire Adept 1/ Divine Mind 1/ Harper Agent 1/ Monk of the Long Death 1/ Survivor 1


Not the worst but it sure cant do much other than make some saves lol
This seems to be the best track to come up with a truly awful build, dip a bunch of classes without full BAB and have few or backloaded class features and you could make a character that is less capable than a low level commoner.

[Mnemnosyne]

Vow of Poverty fixes that.
Vow of Poverty would remove the +6 from an item and replace it with +8, I suppose.

With the templates geekintheground mentioned, that means we're still -3 int short of being unable to cast anything at all without epic enhancements to int...

Ah, there we go! Half-Golem for -6.

Feral Gully Dwarf Half-Ogre Half-Minotaur Half-Golem Wizard 20. Gets a -18 to Int from its race and templates, and assuming it started with 8 Int upon creation, no amount of Int boosting pre-epic is going to get it to 10 or above.

I wonder if the character would wind up beating some of the other possible builds purely on its Str modifier, though...

[rmnimoc]

I nominate a Human(Thay) Wizard(Focused Specialist Diviner)5/Wizard(Focused Specialist Enchanter)5/Incantrix5/Red Wizard(Divination)5 zombie.
His name is Zombie the Significantly Less Than Magnificent.

Pretty sure you can figure out why.

It's because he banned conjuration and illusion for enchantment as a wizard(enchanter)/banned transmutation as a wizard(diviner), with focused specialist to ban evocation/necromancy, banned enchantment as an Incantrix, banned abjuration as a red wizard, and is a zombie.

If only I could figure out how to ban Divination....


To make it useful(where useful here means better than most of these posts) Awaken Undead.

Edit:
Feral Gully Dwarf Half-Ogre Half-Minotaur Half-Golem Wizard 20.

So...a Dwarf cyborg with an Ogre father and a Minotaur mother and 20 levels of Wizard.

I don't care how stupid he is, that guy's a badass.

[The Grue]

Rogue 7/Duelist 6/Shadowdancer 7

[Zombulian]

The 20th level of Truenamer includes an at-will componentless gate, and one of the coolest capstones in the game.

Thank you.

[AmberVael]

1st level Samurai, with 19 level adjustment:
Anarchic Axiomatic Celestial Sanctified Dark Shadow Woodling Human.

Apply the Dragonborn template.

Congratulations, you are an ECL 20 entity with only the racial abilities of dragonborn and a level of samurai to carry you through. Good luck.

[Telonius]

Vow of Poverty would remove the +6 from an item and replace it with +8, I suppose.

With the templates geekintheground mentioned, that means we're still -3 int short of being unable to cast anything at all without epic enhancements to int...

Ah, there we go! Half-Golem for -6.

Feral Gully Dwarf Half-Ogre Half-Minotaur Half-Golem Wizard 20. Gets a -18 to Int from its race and templates, and assuming it started with 8 Int upon creation, no amount of Int boosting pre-epic is going to get it to 10 or above.

I wonder if the character would wind up beating some of the other possible builds purely on its Str modifier, though...

No, I mean, Vow of Poverty (https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sg/20060616a) really fixes that:

Two words: no spellbook.

You would need to spend all of your feats on Spell Mastery from there on out, in order to cast anything but Read Magic.

[EugeneVoid]

Wizard 20 with 6 intelligence is a possible start.
Add in Vow of Poverty.

Maybe a lot of Level Adjustment.
Enslaved Voidmind Vampire Celestial Hairy Spider (?)Wizard 7

A bunch of templates is probably a good place to start

[holywhippet]

20 levels of Paladin with an alignment that's not LG or any brand of evil, so you can't use any of your Paladin abilities or switch over to Blackguard/Antipaladin. And you've put all your feats into buffing your Paladin abilities. And you sacrificed your strength stat to boost your charisma.

Do you mean changing alignment after 20 levels of paladin? You can't take paladin levels if not LG.

How about 20 levels of rogue with vows of peace and poverty? You can't hurt anything so your sneak attack damage is pointless. You can't have anything of value so your stealing skills can't be used.

[Slipperychicken]

We could also take the Dead flaw. It's hard to get much less useful than that.

[Vrock_Summoner]

Do you mean changing alignment after 20 levels of paladin? You can't take paladin levels if not LG.

How about 20 levels of rogue with vows of peace and poverty? You can't hurt anything so your sneak attack damage is pointless. You can't have anything of value so your stealing skills can't be used.

Delicious use of feats, my friend.

How about Vow of Chastity/Abstinence with pretty much every BoEF prestige class? :smalltongue:

[3WhiteFox3]

Any 20

Do punpun, except state explicitly that you are gaining all feats in the game regardless of limitations and prerequisites. One of those feats is a joke feat (from Dragon Mag if I recall correctly) that cannot be normally taken but kills your character, no save or anything, just dead.

Or any build that gets Risen Martyr 10.

[Zytil]

My vote is for truenamer 19/monk 1.

[nedz]

Artificer with Vow of Poverty.

Fighter with Vow of Non Violence.

Dyslexic Wizard.

[Shining Wrath]

Truenamer 20 with all your feats being "Toughness" and using Int as your dump stat.

[EugeneVoid]

Are we trying to optimize negatively?
Or are we trying to find a practical build that is surprisingly useless?

I mean a build that optimizes negatively would be a truenamer with only toughness who puts all his points in dexterity or something.

A build that is optimizes practically, but actually useless would be a reaping mauler monk or something. Strong in ideology, but useless in practice.

[Slipperychicken]

Truenamer 20 with all your feats being "Toughness" and using Int as your dump stat.

Don't forget Focused Lexicon, the worst feat in all of 3.5. It increases your truenaming DCs by 4, not your save DCs. It actually makes truenaming harder.

While we're on the subject, we could also take Skill Focus(Speak Language). There are no speak language checks, so the feat has no effect.

[Darrin]

Race: Half-Orc
Rogue 1/Paladin 1/Wizard 1/Sorcerer 1/Cleric 1/Monk 3
(This character is incapable of gaining any levels. Ever. -100% XP penalty for multiclassing.)

[Slipperychicken]

I recall there being some threads for de-optimizing AC, which could help here.


Race: Half-Orc
Rogue 1/Paladin 1/Wizard 1/Sorcerer 1/Cleric 1/Monk 3
(This character is incapable of gaining any levels. Ever. -100% XP penalty for multiclassing.)

We also need to dump each of his mental stats below 10 so he can't cast spells or benefit from Monk Wisdom-to-AC.

[12owlbears]

fighter 3/ aristocrat 2/ Divine mind 4/ soul knife 1/ duelist 10 with the vows of poverty and nonviolence also take toughness as many times as possible.

[Hytheter]

20 levels of Paladin with an alignment that's not LG or any brand of evil, so you can't use any of your Paladin abilities or switch over to Blackguard/Antipaladin. And you've put all your feats into buffing your Paladin abilities. And you sacrificed your strength stat to boost your charisma.

You might as well just go Warrior 20, it ends up the same I'm pretty sure.

[Slipperychicken]

You might as well just go Warrior 20, it ends up the same I'm pretty sure.

At least such a character gets full BAB and proficiencies. You can certainly hit stuff, and salvage a full-BAB build into a charger with feat-replacement.

[VoxRationis]

Wouldn't all levels in Commoner, barring shenanigans played with a joke ability I shan't name here, with all ability score increases pumped into Constitution (which would increase your ability to perform back-breaking labor, but not any skills important to you or anything else), and Skill Focus for Craft (alchemy) and cross-class skills be the worst build? At least all those other classes give you something...

[Hytheter]

Wouldn't all levels in Commoner, barring shenanigans played with a joke ability I shan't name here, with all ability score increases pumped into Constitution (which would increase your ability to perform back-breaking labor, but not any skills important to you or anything else), and Skill Focus for Craft (alchemy) and cross-class skills be the worst build? At least all those other classes give you something...

Yeah I don't think it can get worse than commoner. All that remains is the race and feat choices. Nothing but useless Skill Focuses covers the feats. What's the worst race? Maybe something with over the top level adjustment or crappy racial HD?

[zlefin]

you might get something worse if you get a many alignment changing divine character who manages to get an awful lot of people mad at him. it might get enough people angry at you to outweigh any mechanical utility. I can't think of enough classes with mechanical penalties for any other oddball builds.

[Techwarrior]

Core Only:
Lawful (Any) Bugbear Monk 8 Barbarian 2 Shadowdancer 2 Duelist 4
Elite Array
Str 12, Dex 14, Con 13, Wis 13, Int 14, Cha 13
All level ups into Str

1- Dodge
3- Mobility
M1- Stunning Fist
6- Simple Weapon Proficiency (Unarmed Strike)
M2- Deflect Arrows
9- Weapon Finesse
12- Combat Reflexes
M6- Improved Disarm
15- Track
18- Snatch Arrows

The sad thing: This was actually a build someone used in a campaign I was in...

[OldTrees1]

Nup Nup (Ancient build made as the opposite of Pun Pun)
A venerable kobold with 0 hp.

[Passer-by]

A wizard with really good Int score, but whose first level was Barbarian.

He never spent a skill point on being able to read.

[CIDE]

A wizard with really good Int score, but whose first level was Barbarian.

He never spent a skill point on being able to read.

Oh, this is good.


Additionally, insert Fine/Tiny race here for any non-TOB melee build that doesn't include weapon finesse.

[BrokenChord]

A wizard with really good Int score, but whose first level was Barbarian.

He never spent a skill point on being able to read.

Sadly, barbarians become literate as a result of taking levels in a class that, by default, can. In Core, that's... Any base class other than Barbarian.

[Dr. Cliché]

1) Make a Lv20 wizard.

2) Have them eat their own spellbook.

3) You now have a Lv20 wizard who can't cast any of their spells... and who probably has stomach-ache too.

OMNOMNOMNOMNOMNOMNOM

[Cog]

My first thought was Wizard with an intelligence penalty so huge he would never be able to cast spells...

Funny thing is, insufficient Int keeps you from preparing or casting spells, but it never actually prevents you from getting the spell slot itself. This means that feats such as Arcane Strike still work just fine for this character (though with fewer uses due to the lack of bonus spells, naturally).

[Jeff the Green]

Nup Nup (Ancient build made as the opposite of Pun Pun)
A venerable kobold with 0 hp.

Aw, I was going to mention that one. :smallfrown:

There's also the famous psychic sandwich, the psion who true mind switches with a PAOed sandwich, then waits for the PAO to wear off, and then spends his life as a nonsentient, immobile sandwich.

Mountebank 1/Something 5/Risen Martyr 3 with any feat that implies an evil deed taken at 9th is pretty darn bad. You have a class feature that consigns your soul to a demon lord or some such if you die, a class that implies you pissed off that demon lord, and a class feature that instantly kills you if you do anything evil.

[Bloodgruve]

Dragon Compendium Mountebank 20

Capstone;
Aspect of the Damned: At 20th level the mountebank's soul comes due to her master... she becomes her master's willing thrall. She transports to the Outer Planes and becomes an NPC under the DM's control.

You "Woohoo, I just hit 20"
DM "Hand over your character sheet, you're now an NPC"

Or is this considered winning the game?

Blood~

[Jeff the Green]

Dragon Compendium Mountebank 20

Capstone;
Aspect of the Damned: At 20th level the mountebank's soul comes due to her master... she becomes her master's willing thrall. She transports to the Outer Planes and becomes an NPC under the DM's control.

You "Woohoo, I just hit 20"
DM "Hand over your character sheet, you're now an NPC"

Or is this considered winning the game?

Blood~

You just spent 19 levels playing a Mountebank; it's considered a mercy.

Seriously, it's basically a worse version of the ninja.

[Meth In a Mine]

Oh come now, be more creative. I'm sure there's a few absolutely useless 1 level dips you could throw in there, like maybe 1 level in...hm...well, SOMETHING has to be more useless than 1 level of monk!
In an April Fools Issue of Dragon, there was an article called Ecology of an Adventurer, and like previous ecology articles, this ended with an advanced adventurer. I don't have the magazine on hand atm, but I believe the guy was a human Fighter 3/Cleric 2/Rogue 2/Druid 1/Sorcerer 3/Barbarian 2/Wizard 2/Bard 2/Ranger 3 or something to the effect of his entire build was dips.


Sadly, barbarians become literate as a result of taking levels in a class that, by default, can. In Core, that's... Any base class other than Barbarian.
Found a way around that. :smallbiggrin:
In Pathfinder, be an orc, and take the feral alternate racial trait. Not only does this make you illiterate (and taking class levels won't fix this because it's a racial trait), but you also need to spend 2 skill points on linguistics to learn a language, and if you don't have a high INT score, you can't even speak a real language. :smalltongue:

[1pwny]

Race: Dwarf
Class(es): Warrior 20
Flaw(s): Pick 7, but not Frail.
Feat(s): Toughness x14
Trait(s): Slow
Stats of Import: +8 con (point-buy)
Extra Points: +5 con

Basically, you have 275 HP and nothing else.

[Amphetryon]

Dragonborn Mongrelfolk Paladin 2/Hexblade 2/Monk 1/Paladin of Slaughter 2/Ravager 3/Knight Protector 10.

Skill requirements pair with the Racial penalties to CHA to ensure that almost no point buy or rolling method will create both a useful CHA to power abilities AND good STR, while the Classes chosen are all MAD. Consistent cycling of Alignment prevents several Classes from continuing to function as anything more than a BAB chassis, and the Monk dip ensures you miss out on full BAB.

[Eldest]

Anything with 10 levels of risen martyr?

[1pwny]

Greenbound, Vampire (templates) Half-Dragon (race). That's a total LA of +19.

What you do with your one class level is your choice.

[AmberVael]

Greenbound, Vampire (templates) Half-Dragon (race). That's a total LA of +19.

What you do with your one class level is your choice.

I beat you too it. Also I did you one better and added Dragonborn to a bunch of templates that only give you special abilities, so you end up with LA +19 and nothing to show for it.


1st level Samurai, with 19 level adjustment:
Anarchic Axiomatic Celestial Sanctified Dark Shadow Woodling Human.

Apply the Dragonborn template.

Congratulations, you are an ECL 20 entity with only the racial abilities of dragonborn and a level of samurai to carry you through. Good luck.

[SinsI]

You would need to spend all of your feats on Spell Mastery from there on out, in order to cast anything but Read Magic.
Exchange your familiar for Eidetic Spellcaster ACF.

[erikun]

Healer 19/Ur-Priest 1

Because not only have you needed to spend 19 levels as a Healer, but now that you can finally cast Gate, you give it all up to cast... 1st level Cleric spells. At least you'll be good again in 10 more levels!

Cleric 19/Ur-Priest 1 could arguably be worse, what with Cleric levels not counting towards Ur-Priest caster level. I suppose you could ask your DM if becoming an Ex-Healer means that its levels don't count towards the Ur-Priest caster level as well! And overall, playing a Healer that long would be far worse than playing a Cleric for that time.

We're looking for the worst a build can do to a player, right? :smalltongue:

[Namfuak]

Sadly, barbarians become literate as a result of taking levels in a class that, by default, can. In Core, that's... Any base class other than Barbarian.

However, neanderthals from Frostburn are automatically illiterate regardless of class, unless they spend the skill points or take a level in wizard (specifically wizard). So, what about a neanderthal Archivist?

[LTwerewolf]

My vote goes in for vow of poverty monk 1/truenamer 19.

[theoneorange]

Fighter 20 with Vow of Poverty and toughness for the rest of his feats.

And with strength and constitution as his dump stats.

[Slipperychicken]

Fighter 20 with Vow of Poverty and toughness Skill Focus(Craft: Trollface.jpg) for the rest of his feats.


Fixed that for ya. Toughness still gives a benefit.

Taking more sacred vows could further gimp our Fighter.

[LTwerewolf]

20th level fighter can still hit better than monk1/truenamer 19 with their fists.

[d13]

The 20th level of Truenamer includes an at-will componentless gate, and one of the coolest capstones in the game.

Completely forgot about that.

Let's go for Truenamer 19/Monk 1, then :smalltongue:

[Anlashok]

I want to play a VoP artificer.

Still have infusions ofc, but still sounds very silly.

[TiaC]

I thought this (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=12296.0) thread seemed relevant.

How about playing a Hairy Spider Wizard? The Hairy Spider has printed LA despite having an int of —.

[cakellene]

Wiz 20 with Int 03 and put all stat points from levelling to Cha.

[Inevitability]

Commoner with the corpse flaw.

[\thread]

[Forrestfire]

Nothing that says you can't take actions while dead! :smallwink:

[Inevitability]

Everything says the DM will hit you with the PHB for taking actions while you're dead! :smallwink:

[Jeff the Green]

Commoner with the corpse flaw.

[\thread]

Oh, come on. There are builds (like my mountebank/risen martyr) that result in fates much worse than death.

[Socksy]

Anything with Emancipated Spawn 1 in there, stuck on a useless undead type.

[Ruethgar]

Mage hunting caster dips. Would be good at will saves and that is about it, need to take flaws to gain feats like dodge and mobility, also be a Karsite. so Wizard 4, Sorcerer 4, Witch 4, Adept 4, Knight of the Weave 4. Would have 0 caster level so the vast majority of spells wouldn't do anything(or depending on how you read the rules, couldn't be cast at all). You want to take Pathetic twice as it is the most debilitating of the flaws. You'll want to trade away your familiar, a believe wizard has one or two that say you can never gain one again without specifying never gaining a wizard familiar again.

Priest 19, Ur Priest 1, you would have first level spells as a level 20, low BaB, no armor and simple weapon prof, which is fairly useless.

[supermonkeyjoe]

Whatever the build, make sure you tank your Con to 1 (-5) and take the Quick trait, you now get Hit Die-6 HP per level (min 0) which means with a d6 or d4 Hit die you have 0HP at level 20. You do have a good speed though so better wear some the heaviest armour you're not proficient with to mitigate that low health!

[sana]

Maybe not the absolute worst build ever but I have a player that managed to create something pretty ehm lets say unique....

- Dragon shaman 6
- Paladin 2
- Cleric 1
- Outcast champion 2
With the following stats (including items!): STR 10, DEX 10, CON 16, INT 13, WIS 11, CHA 22
Sure he has a hell of a lot AC and crazy saves... But he couldn't even hurt the wizards familiar if his live depended on it.

[SinsI]

Whatever the build, make sure you tank your Con to 1 (-5) and take the Quick trait, you now get Hit Die-6 HP per level (min 0) which means with a d6 or d4 Hit die you have 0HP at level 20. You do have a good speed though so better wear some the heaviest armour you're not proficient with to mitigate that low health!

You can only take Quick trait if your Con is 4 or above.

[animewatcha]

I beat you too it. Also I did you one better and added Dragonborn to a bunch of templates that only give you special abilities, so you end up with LA +19 and nothing to show for it.

All that except truenamer 1.

[OldTrees1]

Whatever the build, make sure you tank your Con to 1 (-5) and take the Quick trait, you now get Hit Die-6 HP per level (min 0) which means with a d6 or d4 Hit die you have 0HP at level 20. You do have a good speed though so better wear some the heaviest armour you're not proficient with to mitigate that low health!

While that method does not work, the original worst build (Nup Nup: The Kobold that can do nothing) was based on the 0hp concept.

[HaikenEdge]

Commoner with the corpse flaw.

[\thread]

Technically not true, since being dead doesn't actually make you unconscious, but rather, dying does. So, if your commoner is somehow dead without dying, the commoner can still do stuff.

[SinsI]

While that method does not work, the original worst build (Nup Nup: The Kobold that can do nothing) was based on the 0hp concept.

Even if you start it as a wizard you will still have your 1 starting HP - Quick only affects how much you get, not how much you start with.
And wizard that has 1 permanent HP is still far better than even the best pure Fighter or pure Monk build out there.

P.S. Actually, if you have some item that lowers your Con down to 4, your Wizard can easily use it to maximize hit points gained at each level - use it to get the minimal 1 HP at each level up, and after removing it he gets full 4 HP per level.
So such a build is not only viable, but actually pretty optimized.

[NoACWarrior]

OK how about this...

Warlock who takes Mage Slayer, Blindfight, Pierce Magical Concealment, and Pierce Magical Protection.
On top of that take Wild Mage.

YAY, at lvl 20 you cast as if you were a lvl 5 +1d6 caster, without the ability to cast any greater invocations at all. Also unless you roll a 2 or higher you cant cast any least invocations.
At least other spellcasters can't cast defensively against you and you can melee past both magical protection and concealment, but oh wait you only get simple weapon proficiency.

[Ruethgar]

Warlock's ability to cast invications is not linked to their caster level. Having 6-11 CL would make many an invocation horrible, but you would still have EB which is something.

[Forrestfire]

You'll still have Eldritch Blast, which is based on Class Level, not Caster Level.

[NoACWarrior]

ah thanks for that clarification :D

mmm maybe warlock built this way is a viable strat...

[VoxRationis]

OK how about this...

Warlock who takes Mage Slayer, Blindfight, Pierce Magical Concealment, and Pierce Magical Protection.
On top of that take Wild Mage.

YAY, at lvl 20 you cast as if you were a lvl 5 +1d6 caster, without the ability to cast any greater invocations at all. Also unless you roll a 2 or higher you cant cast any least invocations.
At least other spellcasters can't cast defensively against you and you can melee past both magical protection and concealment, but oh wait you only get simple weapon proficiency.

Again, all-commoner, with no Chicken-Infested, is worse than that in every way. No abilities (warlock has many, even if they aren't all great), no good saves, no good attacks (warlock hits like a siege weapon using a ranged touch attack), proficiency with only a simple weapon, etc, and the commoner has fewer hit points to boot.

[Snowbluff]

FTFY.

fillerfillerfiller

A dip first is worse. The truenamer won't get gate that way.

There was a build that was low int wizard with no familiar and 0 HP.

[TiaC]

So, let's combine everything to get a Dragonborn Commoner 1 with 19 useless LA and 1HP. If we start with an anthropomorphic toad, he'll have 5' move. Take the most crippling flaws and traits and unarmed strike as his proficiency. Spend his feats on skill focus Speak language, alchemy and truespeak. Put all skills into Concentration.

[HaikenEdge]

What about a wizard with the No Time For Book Learning flaw out of Dragon 324?


You are illiterate. You can never learn to read any language, and you suffer a -2 penalty on all Knowledge checks except Knowledge (nature).

[eastmabl]

Thank you.

So, truenamer 19 / commoner 1?

[OldTrees1]

Even if you start it as a wizard you will still have your 1 starting HP - Quick only affects how much you get, not how much you start with.
And wizard that has 1 permanent HP is still far better than even the best pure Fighter or pure Monk build out there.

P.S. Actually, if you have some item that lowers your Con down to 4, your Wizard can easily use it to maximize hit points gained at each level - use it to get the minimal 1 HP at each level up, and after removing it he gets full 4 HP per level.
So such a build is not only viable, but actually pretty optimized.

I forget how Nup Nup did it but they did reach 0hp. I can't find the ancient thread anymore since it was on the old WotC forum.

[Hecuba]

Humm. Perhaps something highly defensive without any way to demand anything's attention.
Dwarf Paragon 2/Rogue 1 (Feat Variant)/Hexblade 2/Survivor 5/Dwarven Defender 10

[Coventry]

I forget how Nup Nup did it but they did reach 0hp. I can't find the ancient thread anymore since it was on the old WotC forum.

Start with the minimum CON of 8, then pick any race with a -2 CON penalty (6 CON, at -2/die, minimum 1/die). Age the character to Venerable for a base CON of 3 (-4 hp/die, minimum of 1), then apply the Frail flaw (-1 hp/level, minimum 0, net -4 hp/level with CON). Pick any d4 class at every level (example: Psion), and the character has 0 hp at level 20.

Kobolds could take first level in a d6 class (2 hp), and the use the racial ability to sacrifice 1 hp permanently to get a 1 hp ECL 20 character.

[Anachronity]

Grab Human and get the Dark template from Tome of Magic for HiPS. Take your first level as a commoner. Get double toughness to survive 1st level, focus on stealth skills and rock out Appraise with your extra skill point. Slam all your stats into Constitution and never look back. Anything extra can go into Charisma and Dexterity.

Being a level 1 commoner qualifies you for the Survivor prestige class from Savage Species, take. it.

Get up to level 2 in survivor, then go for 3 levels of Hexblade for mettle. After that grab a level of Monk and 2 levels of Paladin, then finish up your survivor levels. Sink your feats into Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes, and Great Fortitude. You are going for the trifecta

Your saving throws are astronomical, your hitpoints should be pretty good, and you have one of the hardest stealth skills to counteract. This means that your party will not be able to get rid of you. The primary advantage of this build is that it's sturdy the whole way through, not just at max level.

This build also has the advantage of no item requirements. This is good because the first purchase you want to make is to pay a Druid to cast Mantle of the Fiery Soul on you. It instantaneously (can't be dispelled) grants you the fire subtype for fire immunity. Your dark template gives you some resistance to cold to counteract your new weakness, but if you want more you can get Mantle of the Icy Soul cast on you as well for cold immunity.

The moment you get Mantle of the Fiery Soul, make it a point to carry as much alchemist's fire as possible at all times. Toss it at anything remotely flammable. Sleep with it. Become a walking fire hazard. Instigate conflicts with NPCs whenever possible, your party will be slaughtered thank you for the extra experience.

[enderlord99]

Someone made a build called "Nup-nup" that died as soon as it took any action.

[SinsI]

Start with the minimum CON of 8, then pick any race with a -2 CON penalty (6 CON, at -2/die, minimum 1/die). Age the character to Venerable for a base CON of 3 (-4 hp/die, minimum of 1), then apply the Frail flaw (-1 hp/level, minimum 0, net -4 hp/level with CON). Pick any d4 class at every level (example: Psion), and the character has 0 hp at level 20.

Kobolds could take first level in a d6 class (2 hp), and the use the racial ability to sacrifice 1 hp permanently to get a 1 hp ECL 20 character.

Frail is identical to Quick in this aspect - 1st level HP is not affected by it. So Nup-Nup shouldn't be able to use it to have less than 1HP.

What book is that racial ability from? Have never heard of it.

[CombatOwl]

I got the idea for this thread when I was tossing around the idea for a character who never advanced past level 1 in any class, and used 1 level from each PHB class.

What's the worst, most useless, absolutely underpowered 20 level build you can come up with?

Extra points to anyone who can figure out a way to make a useless build actually useful.

1 level in 20 classes.

[PaucaTerrorem]

Can't go wrong with commoner.

I dunno. It would open up Chicken Infested...

[OldTrees1]

Frail is identical to Quick in this aspect - 1st level HP is not affected by it. So Nup-Nup shouldn't be able to use it to have less than 1HP.

What book is that racial ability from? Have never heard of it.

Draconic Rite of Passage (Races of the Dragon) and Greater Draconic Rite of Passage (RotD Web Enhancement) permanently cost 1 and 3hp respectively. Neither is needed.


Kobold (Races of the Dragon)
9 Con (Point Buy) -2 (Racial) -3 (Old Aged) = 4 Con (-3 con modifier)
Commoner 1 (Dungeon Master's Guide)
Quick Trait* (Unearthed Arcana) [-1hp per level, minimum 0hp]
1d4-4 (minimum 0)
0hp/HD

*

Drawback

Subtract 1 from your hit points gained at each level, including 1st (a result of 0 is possible).

However let's assume the SRD had a typo and the Quick trait does not affect 1st level.
Kobold (Races of the Dragon)
9 Con (Point Buy) -2 (Racial) -3 (Old Aged) = 4 Con (-3 con modifier)
Commoner 1 (Dungeon Master's Guide)
1st level
1d4-3 (minimum 1hp)
Draconic Rite of Passage (permanent -1hp)
0hp
Quick Trait* (Unearthed Arcana) [-1hp per level, minimum 0hp] <--We are currently assuming Quick does not affect 1st level
Later levels
1d4-4 (minimum 0hp)
0hp/HD

[3drinks]

Yup. The Commoner is the clear head-and-shoulders leader for this project - no class features, armour proficiencies, one simple weapon, poor saves, poor BAB, poor skill points, and a d4 hit die. Combine this with the race that provides the least...sounds like Half-Elf Commoner 20 armed with a Battleaxe and dressed in Chainmail, with skill points spent in Craft (Underwater Basketweaving) and Profession (Gigolo) is our "big winner". Assign him the NPC Array for 12 11 10 10 9 8 (put the 8 on Con for a maximum of 60 hp at 20th level [which could be less] and a -1 on any Con checks he has to make - such as Endurance checks for his Profession).

[ShurikVch]

Dragon Magazine #342 was an April issue
And it have article "The Ecology of the Adventurer"
There was example of "Advanced Adventurer":

MORGAN IRONWOLF
Human barbarian 2/cleric 1/fighter 2/monk 2/paladin 2/ranger 2/rogue 2/sorcerer 4/assassin 1/shadow dancer 2
N Medium humanoid

Not exactly the worst build in the world, but still... :smallbiggrin:

[Cocytus]

Ex-Cleric 20.

Basically a worse fighter; you can't get much worse than that.
(Except commoner or truenamer.)

[TiaC]

My submission
Venerable Anarchic Axiomatic Celestial Sanctified Dark Shadow Woodling(thanks AmberVael) Dragonborn Anthropomorphic Toad Commoner 1
HP 1
Spd 5'
AC 7
Init -5
Attack: Unarmed Strike -3
Damage: 1d2-2
Saves: Fort -3, Ref -3, Will +0
Skills: Concentration +1
Feats: Skill focus(speak language), Skill focus(Alchemy), Skill focus(truespeak)
Flaws: Weak Will, Vulnerable
Traits: Reckless, Torpid
Str 4, Dex 4, Con 4, Int 11, Wis 17, Cha 11

[nedz]

Sha'ir who dips War Hulk

Sha'ir get their spells via a Diplomacy check.
War Hulk gets No Time to Think (Ex) at level 1, which means that the characters Diplomacy skill is now 0 ranks.

So you have a Sha'ir who almost always fails to retrieve any spells.

[Tvtyrant]

Vow of Poverty Stone Giant Elder? You get 120 HP, some crappy spell like abilities, and a woefully terrible AC.

[1pwny]

Hmm... how about an optimized, terrible build?

Race: Elf
Template(s): Shadow
Class Levels:
Monk - 18
Barbarian - 1
Wildrunner - 1
Feats:
- Fleet of Foot (Faerun)
- Dash
- Endurance
- Run
Trait(s):
- Quick

The overall effect of this is that you can run 2-3 miles every minute, but you can't do much else.