e8 Malconvoker...lesser planar binding?

[Mitchellnotes]

Hey all!

So I enjoy making e8 and e6 characters, and i love summoners. One thing that always annoys me a bit is that i cant get any planar binding in either...maybe...

I think ive found a way to do it using malconvoker though in e8! The first caveat is that it doesnt work if the game assumes that 5th level spells dont exist at all.

I believe the rest works, but is a little shaky, and im just curious what everyone thinks!

The core is a conjurer with abrupt jaunt (because yes), spontaneous summons, and possibly enhanced summons if augment summoning could be helpful.

Start taking malconvoker as soon as possible. You need at least 2 levels to add lesser planar binding to your spellbook and thus spells known.

Now, spontaneous summoning should qualify for versatile spellcasting, which since you know lesser planar binding should allow you to cast it!

Does this work the way i think it does?

[Werephilosopher]

No. Malconvoker adds lesser planar binding to your spells known "at the indicated levels"- ie. when you can learn that level of spell normally. Since an e8 character with levels in Malconvoker can't know 5th level spells, it can't know lesser planar binding.

[Mitchellnotes]

No. Malconvoker adds lesser planar binding to your spells known "at the indicated levels"- ie. when you can learn that level of spell normally. Since an e8 character with levels in Malconvoker can't know 5th level spells, it can't know lesser planar binding.

The entry implies that you add the spells to your spellbook at the following levels and then provides details on which spell levels. It doesnt include any language on necessarily being able to cast the spell level before adding to your spells known.

[Werephilosopher]

The entry implies that you add the spells to your spellbook at the following levels and then provides details on which spell levels. It doesnt include any language on necessarily being able to cast the spell level before adding to your spells known.

It doesn't, but you can't know spells if you're not able to cast spells of their level. An e8 character can't learn 5th-level spells; therefore, they do not have access to the "spells known" list for their class's 5th-level spells. Malconvoker adds lesser planar binding to your list of 5th-level spells known- except you can't access that list as an e8 character.

[Mitchellnotes]

It doesn't, but you can't know spells if you're not able to cast spells of their level. An e8 character can't learn 5th-level spells; therefore, they do not have access to the "spells known" list for their class's 5th-level spells. Malconvoker adds lesser planar binding to your list of 5th-level spells known- except you can't access that list as an e8 character.

I know logically that makes sense, but that isnt stated anywhere that i know of. If im mistaken, please let me know.

[Werephilosopher]

I reread the entry, it seems it does indeed add all three spells to the spellbook at once, despite the character not being able to use them yet. I'm sure that's an oversight... but even were it not, it distinguishes adding a spell to a spellbook from adding it to a list of spells known. Having the words and formulas written down doesn't mean you KNOW the spell- in fact, since you can't cast spells of that level yet, you CAN'T know the spell. Which is why I think automatically adding them to your spell book before being able to cast them is an oversight- being basically hit with a flash of inspiration, writing down three spells, then realizing you have no idea what to do with them yet sounds rather silly.

Edit: though, I suppose using a class that doesn't use a spellbook would make your idea work, since they WOULD get the spells added to "spells known." Unfortunately, you couldn't use Wizard, which is the best base for Malconvokers imho.

Edit edit: Actually you COULD use a Wizard, if you used the "Eidetic Spellcasting" variant from Dragon Magazine #354. You lose Scribe Scroll and your familiar, in return for not needing a spellbook to memorize spells. You'd have to give up Abrupt Jaunt, since you won't have a familiar to give up, but it could work.