Cheesiest things for Phsychic Reformation

[CIDE]

Well, what it says it the title. What are some of the cheesiest things you have done with Phsychic Reformation? Or what are the cheesiest things you've thought of? Or perhaps what are the limits you've imposed as a DM on Psychic Reformation or do you outright ban it? I've personally only used it on a basic Psion in the way it was intended to basically fix some of my (somewhat) poor choices since the feats I chose obviously weren't working with the direction the DM was taking the campaign.

I'm just curious to see what ya'll out there thing the limits are?

P.S. I heard of something about getting beetle hit die and using psychic reformation on it or something; anyone have any details on that one?

[Dusk Eclipse]

The cheesiest trick I know with Psychic Reformation is to use the Linked Power feat to redo your entire character on a round per round basis, custom tailor your feat, power selection, etc to the encounter at the low cost of a 50 GP/level.

[Malroth]

Shape soulmeld could have some pretty cheesy implications since you can keep a meldshape you previously made without the feat, Using it for Item creation feats that you later drop for combat feats on adventuring days is another option.

[Harrow]

I've heard of using it on mounts and animal companions to change the feats they get from racial hit dice. Especially nice if you change it to feats that DMs may normally object to on animals, such as Shape Soulmeld or Martial Study.


The cheesiest trick I know with Psychic Reformation is to use the Linked Power feat to redo your entire character on a round per round basis, custom tailor your feat, power selection, etc to the encounter at the low cost of a 50 GP/level.

Shouldn't that be 50 XP/level?

[Irk]

cheesiest use of psychic reformation is using it to get STP spells on a psion.

[Rubik]

P.S. I heard of something about getting beetle hit die and using psychic reformation on it or something; anyone have any details on that one?I think you're referring to my trick using Fusion followed by Astral Seed on a devastation beetle (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/devastationVermin.htm) to gain a total of 128 HD, and then retraining them into class levels.

Note that if you find a way to cast the Aberrate spell on both yourself and the devastation beetle, you're both aberrations at that point, and can Fusion with impunity. Otherwise, Polymorph will change your types to match, and you can have fun with the resulting racial mish-mash. Do you want to be a gestalt of a hydra and a chronotyryn? Sure! Black pudding and dvati? Why not? Prismatic dragon and a hagunemnon? Go nuts!

[Phelix-Mu]

DM ruled that switching abilities for those available at the same level wasn't "becoming more powerful." So, I used it on simulacra of my int-based monk15/wiz/abjchamp/swordsage to customize their skill point loadout and feats. Since it was an epic level campaign without xp (5gp/1xp conversion for things requiring xp), eventually I had a small army of simulacra working for me. And, since eventually we went into a d20 modern-type thing, I kitted most of them out with stealth capabilities and sniper rifles and used them as a long-range suppression team. We were all linked via interplanar telepathic bond. Pretty awesome.

[CIDE]

I've heard of using it on mounts and animal companions to change the feats they get from racial hit dice. Especially nice if you change it to feats that DMs may normally object to on animals, such as Shape Soulmeld or Martial Study.



Shouldn't that be 50 XP/level?

yeah, it's the xp. Unless there's a conversion trick I don't know about. Also, I know there's nothing RAW against it but I don't think a DM would fall for that one.


cheesiest use of psychic reformation is using it to get STP spells on a psion.

How do you do that?


I think you're referring to my trick using Fusion followed by Astral Seed on a devastation beetle (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/devastationVermin.htm) to gain a total of 128 HD, and then retraining them into class levels.

Note that if you find a way to cast the Aberrate spell on both yourself and the devastation beetle, you're both aberrations at that point, and can Fusion with impunity. Otherwise, Polymorph will change your types to match, and you can have fun with the resulting racial mish-mash. Do you want to be a gestalt of a hydra and a chronotyryn? Sure! Black pudding and dvati? Why not? Prismatic dragon and a hagunemnon? Go nuts!

It doesn't say anything about changing classes. It only covers feats, skills, etc. Or did I miss something in the description for the power?


When this power is manifested, the subject can choose to spend its most recently gained skill points differently (picking new skills and abandoning old ones if it chooses) and to choose a different feat from the one it selected when advancing from its previous level to its current level.

The subject can also choose to forget powers it acquired when advancing to its current level, replacing them with new ones.

The subject can undo decisions of these sorts that were made at lower levels, if both the subject and the manifester agree to pay the necessary XP before this power is manifested (see below). The subject must abide by the standard rules for selecting skills and feats, and so it cannot take feats for which it doesn’t qualify or take crossclass skills as class skills.

Nothing about class choice.


DM ruled that switching abilities for those available at the same level wasn't "becoming more powerful." So, I used it on simulacra of my int-based monk15/wiz/abjchamp/swordsage to customize their skill point loadout and feats. Since it was an epic level campaign without xp (5gp/1xp conversion for things requiring xp), eventually I had a small army of simulacra working for me. And, since eventually we went into a d20 modern-type thing, I kitted most of them out with stealth capabilities and sniper rifles and used them as a long-range suppression team. We were all linked via interplanar telepathic bond. Pretty awesome.


That's pretty clever. I like that. I doubt any of my DM's would allow alterations like that on my simulcra or ice assassins though.

[Rubik]

It doesn't say anything about changing classes. It only covers feats, skills, etc. Or did I miss something in the description for the power?

Nothing about class choice.My trick doesn't use Psychic Reformation. It uses retraining, as I said.

[CIDE]

My trick doesn't use Psychic Reformation. It uses retraining, as I said.


Oh, my bad. :eek:

Edit:

After rereading the retraining rules I see the class levels can't be swapped out. You need rebuilding. And at least for your particular idea I really don't like how much DM fiat is required to accomplish that rebuilding since it calls for a quest. Too bad, too. After you mentioned it I thought of using the method for sheningans with the big guy is with me build+leadership to get cohorts at higher level than the original character in a chain until the highest level one can cast fusion+astral seed to turn them all (and their psicrystals) into a single character. Fix the class levels and construct hd as needed; but now that I reread that it's a lot harder to do.

Blegh...hate relying on DM fiat.

[Vaz]

I've heard of using it on mounts and animal companions to change the feats they get from racial hit dice. Especially nice if you change it to feats that DMs may normally object to on animals, such as Shape Soulmeld or Martial Study.



Shouldn't that be 50 XP/level?
Nope. Linked power by RAW doesn't add the XP component, just the PP cost.

[Rubik]

Oh, my bad. :eek:

Edit:

After rereading the retraining rules I see the class levels can't be swapped out. You need rebuilding. And at least for your particular idea I really don't like how much DM fiat is required to accomplish that rebuilding since it calls for a quest. Too bad, too. After you mentioned it I thought of using the method for sheningans with the big guy is with me build+leadership to get cohorts at higher level than the original character in a chain until the highest level one can cast fusion+astral seed to turn them all (and their psicrystals) into a single character. Fix the class levels and construct hd as needed; but now that I reread that it's a lot harder to do.

Blegh...hate relying on DM fiat.Rebuilding. Right. Why do we need retraining, rebuilding, and reformation, all for the same basic thing?

Anyway, you can also do something similar by contracting multiple strains of lycanthropy. There're over 2,200 HD in animals and vermin to use for lycanthropy and entomanthropy in official sourcebooks (with more buried somewhere in various campaign settings, Dungeon Magazine, and Dragon Magazine, I'm sure). Contract, say, dire tortoise lycanthropy, rebuild the HD. Contract wolf lycanthropy. Rebuild. Contract dire wolf lycanthropy. Rebuild. Contract albatross lycanthropy. Rebuild. Contract shark/dire shark/t-rex etc lycanthropy, using size-changing magic to qualify for those outside your size range. Rebuild. Ha. Hahaha. MUAHAHAHAHAHA!

*Ahem.*

Also, I'm fairly sure it's not spelled "Pshsspashsychic Reformation." Or whatever.

[Jeff the Green]

My favorite is getting rid of prereqs for self-qualifying things. Get rid of Overchannel once you get into Anarchic Initiate, the extraneous aberrant feat you used to get Starspawn, etc.


Also, I'm fairly sure it's not spelled "Pshsspashsychic Reformation." Or whatever.

Phshaw.

:smalltongue:

[.Zero]

I was thinking about this dirty trick.

Lets say I'm an Ardent and I'm with my Psion buddy. I cast Feat Leech (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/featLeech.htm) on him and he is willing to fail his save, so now i have, say, 4 new feats and consequently 4 new feat slots. Before Feat Leech expires i cast on myself Psychic Reformation and... what happens now?

I think i can change even those stolen feats and maybe i can even keep them, because now they're no more those stolen feats, now i have my own new retrained feats which are no more bound to Feat Leech.

What do you think about this?

And if this is doable we can add Affinity Field cheese to give anyone in the field a number of new feats equal to my Wisdom modifier (or is it based on each member Wis modifier? Whaterver...) at each manifastation, gaining every feat for wich someone meets the prerequisites.

I'm feeling pessimist about this however...

[Rubik]

Once Feat Leech ends, so do the extra feats you get from it, I think.

[Jeff the Green]

I think the bigger problem is that psychic reformation only works on feats gained from levels.

[TrueJordan]

The only one I knew is the crafting ones, but unless you have psychic reformation yourself, you're gonna end up paying around the same amount, unless you're already late in the game and the items is going to be half of a million gold or so.
Source: I lost a lot of money trying to pull this off mid-game :( Lesson learned though: think ahead

[.Zero]

I think the bigger problem is that psychic reformation only works on feats gained from levels.

Oh, well, good point. I was excited i found a new trick but...

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Use it to gain Snowcasting, Flash Frost Spell, Energy Substitution: Electricity, Born of the Three Thunders, and optionally Sudden Widen and/or Fell Drain and/or Fell Frighten and/or Heighten Spell preferably with Earth Spell. Use all of those with Detect Magic, and use Permanency on it. Then use Psychic Reformation to get rid of all those feats. Whenever you concentrate on your Detect Magic, everyone in a 60-ft. cone (120-ft. Widened) takes electric and sonic damage, saves vs stun, saves vs falling prone, has to make a balance check or fall prone, possibly gains a negative level no save, possibly becomes shaken for ten rounds no save. You can use the Swift Concentration skill trick to do that as a swift action, and as long as you maintain concentration on it for consecutive rounds it gets around the 1/encounter limit on skill tricks.

[Dread_Head]

Using Psychic Reformation after a Bard uses Inspire Greatness to boost your skill ranks and gain early entry to a PrC?

[Segev]

I don't think the bonus HD come with skill points, BAB, etc. Though I suppose they are HD, so if you reformat your existing skill points you can get 2 more ranks in cap, which is probably what you meant now that I think about it.

[Artillery]

Psychic Reformation is awesome for classes limited to spells known. It also means any of the feats that lock you in with specific stuff doesn't, Expanded Knowledge being the common Psionics one.

A Psion hanging out with a Sorcerer work really well. Spells Known is part of leveling so the Sorcerer can trade his spells out without the restrictions normally placed on a Sorcerer.

Makes the entire party more flexible, lets your caster allies have a metamagic feats they might not normally have. Allows people to be able to craft without needing the crafting feats all the time. Lots of uses. Using it with Inspire Greatness and Practiced Caster/Manifester to do early entry for Prestige classes.

Also as far as feat trading goes its more sensible to a DM than the dark chaos shuffle.

[CIDE]

Rebuilding. Right. Why do we need retraining, rebuilding, and reformation, all for the same basic thing?

Anyway, you can also do something similar by contracting multiple strains of lycanthropy. There're over 2,200 HD in animals and vermin to use for lycanthropy and entomanthropy in official sourcebooks (with more buried somewhere in various campaign settings, Dungeon Magazine, and Dragon Magazine, I'm sure). Contract, say, dire tortoise lycanthropy, rebuild the HD. Contract wolf lycanthropy. Rebuild. Contract dire wolf lycanthropy. Rebuild. Contract albatross lycanthropy. Rebuild. Contract shark/dire shark/t-rex etc lycanthropy, using size-changing magic to qualify for those outside your size range. Rebuild. Ha. Hahaha. MUAHAHAHAHAHA!

*Ahem.*

Also, I'm fairly sure it's not spelled "Pshsspashsychic Reformation." Or whatever.

That is...amazing and horrible all at the same time...


Once Feat Leech ends, so do the extra feats you get from it, I think.

I would have thought this too. Granted, with the cheese everyone assumes for fusion+astral seed makes me wonder about Feet Leech+Astral Seed...


Use it to gain Snowcasting, Flash Frost Spell, Energy Substitution: Electricity, Born of the Three Thunders, and optionally Sudden Widen and/or Fell Drain and/or Fell Frighten and/or Heighten Spell preferably with Earth Spell. Use all of those with Detect Magic, and use Permanency on it. Then use Psychic Reformation to get rid of all those feats. Whenever you concentrate on your Detect Magic, everyone in a 60-ft. cone (120-ft. Widened) takes electric and sonic damage, saves vs stun, saves vs falling prone, has to make a balance check or fall prone, possibly gains a negative level no save, possibly becomes shaken for ten rounds no save. You can use the Swift Concentration skill trick to do that as a swift action, and as long as you maintain concentration on it for consecutive rounds it gets around the 1/encounter limit on skill tricks.

I...Wha....this..... I love it.

[Melcar]

This might not be full cheese, but still is a pain in the but...

I have hear that a wizards casts greater celerity, timestop, limited wish, psychic remormation, and changes his spell layout to fit the encounter... and wins!

I might have missed something though...

[TuggyNE]

Also, I'm fairly sure it's not spelled "Pshsspashsychic Reformation." Or whatever.

Pretty sure it should be phthisic reformation.