Countering Epic Level Wizard

[firruna]

I need some help with a game I am running.

I'm running a party of level 21 characters, trying to become gods (although that has nothing to do with this) I have decided to make a custom 'boss' fight for each of them. I will be finding ways to get each of them to fight this 'boss' one on one.

I have the fights for the Tank, and Assassin figured out. Powerful ranger that can run away from the tank and shot at the same time, and a construct with tremorsense for the Assassin. (If anyone has any ideas for ways to make this more fun, please let me know) Tha main thing I need help with is the Wizard, or Cleric. I have never been one to play spell casters, so I am at a lose of how to counter them. I thought about just putting down an anti-magic field, but that would just make it no fun for anyone if they can't do anything, and he has mentioned in the past that the Wizard has a way around them...

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

[AWiz_Abroad]

I'm currently playing an ECL 36 wizard, so let me see what I can say

It really depends on a couple of factors. 1. If you let your party have epic spellcasting. It is immensely easy to mitigate the DCs into something sane (chaingating solars is my favorite way). I'd encourage you to optimize to the same extent.

That being said, if I wanted to challenge a wizard. . . I'd pull together a Lord of Blades type of warforged with a couple of advanced Shadesteel Golems (as "meat" shields). The main baddie would be entirely specced around countering anything the wizard could do, while the shadesteel golems just whale on the party. I'd definately suggest he be a divination specialist who routinuely scrys his targets to get an idea of prefered combat tactics.

Without knowing your party, I can't give much more in the way of details.

For my ECL 20 party, they're going to face an Astral Projected Wizard/Walker of the Wastes (sub optimal I know) who resides in a Demi-plane that he's got warded with greater anticipate teleport. His schtick is locking down casters so his pets (Mummies and Sand Golems) can eat the faces off of those who oppose him. His phylacteries are going to be the hook for the next campaign.

[Belial_the_Leveler]

There's no way to counter a spellcaster at that level with a non-spellcasting normal character, unless you tailor the build specifically against their spell selection for the day and optimize heavily. Plenty of monsters can easily do it though.


The BBEG with the highest possiblity of success would be a dwarf saint Paladin of Freedom 4 / Chaos Monk 2 / Hexblade 4 / Dwarven Defender 11 with Versatile Spellcaster, Ascetic Mage, Exceptional Deflection, Mage Slayer, Pierce Magical Protection, the anti-energy-drain feat from Libris Mortis and as many of the various protective items as you can manage.


You should have nigh-ridiculous AC and saves, the ability to deflect ray and orb spells that do hit you, evasion, mettle, some DR, high HP, immunity to 4th level and lower spells and the ability to end most of the wizard's or cleric's combat buffs with a standard action (including shapechange)

[Sir Chuckles]

However, before we really start throwing builds that can turn the fabric of time, space, reality, magic, and the multiverse as a whole into it's own personal petticoat, we should know what the optimization level at your table is.

Because if this Wizard is just launching Meteor Swarm-Quickened Fireball, it's a pretty simple thing to overcome. Considering that you have a "Tank" and an Assassin that's counted by tremor sense, we might have to lowball. Belial is quite brutal, so you might not even need that level of murder.

The other question is: Are these meant as Foil characters, or purely a counter?

[Twilightwyrm]

Considering you are already throwing a construct with Tremorsense at the Assassin, I'm not sure how at least some anti-magic fields would not be an appropriate challenge for characters capable of casting 9th level spells. After all, why keep the kid gloves on for the character you are worried most about countering?
Contrary to some speculation, high level spell casters are not always as impossible to counter. Rather the difficulty in recommending a counter comes because a high level spell-caster can be so many different things, so some people feel the need to try and counter all these things. Thing is, however, unless they know ahead of time they have to be, said spellcaster won't prepare to be a warrior, or a specialist, or a blaster, or a straight counter to any of these unless they were already that in the first place, or know they would benefit from being one ahead of time. From the pov of practical experience, most spell casters are going to have an MO, a standard array of spells they prepare everyday, and an array of spells they have. For the wizard in particular, while any wizard can have any non-prohibited spell in the game, most won't invest the time and resources in getting said spells because said time/resources are better spent making them better at those things they normally do. So, take a look at your player's spell list, and keep in mind what they normally prepare. Unless they know this NPC will be a threat, you can generally assume they will have their normal spell selection prepared. If they normally change forms, make sure to note their favored forms for changing into. Then prepare a challenging opponent appropriately.

[firruna]

It really depends on a couple of factors. 1. If you let your party have epic spellcasting. It is immensely easy to mitigate the DCs into something sane (chaingating solars is my favorite way). I'd encourage you to optimize to the same extent.

That being said, if I wanted to challenge a wizard. . . I'd pull together a Lord of Blades type of warforged with a couple of advanced Shadesteel Golems (as "meat" shields)


1. Yes, I am letting them use epic spells.

I will definitely look into the Lord of Blades some more, looks like that might fit very well.

[firruna]

The BBEG with the highest possiblity of success would be a dwarf saint Paladin of Freedom 4 / Chaos Monk 2 / Hexblade 4 / Dwarven Defender 11 with Versatile Spellcaster, Ascetic Mage, Exceptional Deflection, Mage Slayer, Pierce Magical Protection, the anti-energy-drain feat from Libris Mortis and as many of the various protective items as you can manage.


That looks like it could be fun, will look into the Chaos monk, and the feats? as I have never read up on any of them.

[firruna]

However, before we really start throwing builds that can turn the fabric of time, space, reality, magic, and the multiverse as a whole into it's own personal petticoat, we should know what the optimization level at your table is.


Everyone in the part is ECL 21.

The Wizard is a human, with a few levels in wizard, some in Archmage, and then a few in something else. He has caster level 21, and rather than blasting everyone, he likes to just sit there and mess with the NPCs how ever he can. He has some direct damage, but its mostly irresistible dance, stop time, teleport people around, lock them in cages, etc. basicly just make it so I can't do anything, and the Tank (ECL 21 Skullcrusher ogre swordsage) can flank with the Assassin (ECL 21 Rogue, Assassin, Dualist) and they both do massive damage. The Cleric is new, his last character died, so he spent the last session writing up a new one, all I know at this point is he is trying to be a balance between good and evil, life and death, or something like that. Waiting for him to be done so I can look at it.

For this fight though, it will only be one of them against who ever I end up making for that character. (Not sure how to set this up for the Wizard who the Tank plays at being a bodyguard for, but that will come with whatever I end up making to fight him)

With that info, anything you would suggest?

[firruna]

Considering you are already throwing a construct with Tremorsense at the Assassin, I'm not sure how at least some anti-magic fields would not be an appropriate challenge for characters capable of casting 9th level spells. After all, why keep the kid gloves on for the character you are worried most about countering?
Contrary to some speculation, high level spell casters are not always as impossible to counter. Rather the difficulty in recommending a counter comes because a high level spell-caster can be so many different things, so some people feel the need to try and counter all these things. Thing is, however, unless they know ahead of time they have to be, said spellcaster won't prepare to be a warrior, or a specialist, or a blaster, or a straight counter to any of these unless they were already that in the first place, or know they would benefit from being one ahead of time. From the pov of practical experience, most spell casters are going to have an MO, a standard array of spells they prepare everyday, and an array of spells they have. For the wizard in particular, while any wizard can have any non-prohibited spell in the game, most won't invest the time and resources in getting said spells because said time/resources are better spent making them better at those things they normally do. So, take a look at your player's spell list, and keep in mind what they normally prepare. Unless they know this NPC will be a threat, you can generally assume they will have their normal spell selection prepared. If they normally change forms, make sure to note their favored forms for changing into. Then prepare a challenging opponent appropriately.

Good points about the standard array of spells prepared, as I said, never run a spell caster, so I'm not all that familiar with them.
As for the antimagic field, I assumed he has some way to kill the field, never occurred to me that it might be a spell or two that work within it. Can you enlighten me on how one would get around an antimagic field, or how they work in general? From reading about it on d20srd.org I thought it just blocked all magic.
Any insight into this you, or anyone else can provide would be greatly appreciated.

[Belial_the_Leveler]

Prismatics, Wall-of-Force, Forcecage and a few other spells are unaffected by antimagic entirely. Instantaneous conjurations can't be cast within antimagic but their effects are nonmagical and can extend within the AMF normally so called creatures, created objects and created effects will work. Summoned creatures can pit their Spell Resistance against the AMF to avoid being suppressed. Telekinesis can throw nonmagical objects (i.e. boulders) into an AMF. Disjunction has a relatively small chance to both work and destroy the AMF outright. An activated Spell Engine will destroy an AMF it touches outright. Invoke Magic can be cast within AMF and allows you to cast a single spell of 4th level and lower into the AMF that normally would not work.

[firruna]

Prismatics, Wall-of-Force, Forcecage and a few other spells are unaffected by antimagic entirely. Instantaneous conjurations can't be cast within antimagic but their effects are nonmagical and can extend within the AMF normally so called creatures, created objects and created effects will work. Summoned creatures can pit their Spell Resistance against the AMF to avoid being suppressed. Telekinesis can throw nonmagical objects (i.e. boulders) into an AMF. Disjunction has a relatively small chance to both work and destroy the AMF outright. An activated Spell Engine will destroy an AMF it touches outright. Invoke Magic can be cast within AMF and allows you to cast a single spell of 4th level and lower into the AMF that normally would not work.

Thank you for clearing all that up for me.

[Eldariel]

The BBEG with the highest possiblity of success would be a dwarf saint Paladin of Freedom 4 / Chaos Monk 2 / Hexblade 4 / Dwarven Defender 11 with Versatile Spellcaster, Ascetic Mage, Exceptional Deflection, Mage Slayer, Pierce Magical Protection, the anti-energy-drain feat from Libris Mortis and as many of the various protective items as you can manage.

That seems completely helpless offensively to me. Can't the Wizard just sit back with Teleports, Dispel/Disjoin all his stuff and make a sport out of ripping his toenails one at a time? Or Gate a Hecatoncheires (can't be controlled but they don't seem to be too opposed to just destroying stuff) or some such? Pierce Magical Protection wouldn't work in face of damage immunity.

Or how would such a character actually attack someone who can Teleport more or less at will, let alone someone Ghostformed inside a wall or Superior Invisibilitied+Mind Blanked? Why wouldn't you just rather add e.g. Ur-Priest + Sublime Chord > Fochlucan Lyrist instead of Dwarven Defender, Hexblade 4, etc.?

[Belial_the_Leveler]

It has the highest possibility of success for a noncaster.

Also, pierce magical protection doesn't care if the target is immune to damage. It works off damage dealt not damage taken. (important distinction)


As for a ghostformed caster, they cannot teleport as no surface except force effects can support them. Inside the wall the caster doesn't have line-of-effect or line-of-sight in most cases. A superior invisible caster can still be detected in many ways. Any source of light on him will give him away (can't make them invisible). Environmental effects like rain or fog, or spotting his footsteps if he isn't flying. An Arcane Sight effect (multiple cheap ways for that) would reveal the magic aura of the superior invisibility itself. And then there are various nonstandard senses.

[Sir Chuckles]

Everyone in the part is ECL 21.

The Wizard is a human, with a few levels in wizard, some in Archmage, and then a few in something else. He has caster level 21, and rather than blasting everyone, he likes to just sit there and mess with the NPCs how ever he can. He has some direct damage, but its mostly irresistible dance, stop time, teleport people around, lock them in cages, etc. basicly just make it so I can't do anything, and the Tank (ECL 21 Skullcrusher ogre swordsage) can flank with the Assassin (ECL 21 Rogue, Assassin, Dualist) and they both do massive damage. The Cleric is new, his last character died, so he spent the last session writing up a new one, all I know at this point is he is trying to be a balance between good and evil, life and death, or something like that. Waiting for him to be done so I can look at it.

For this fight though, it will only be one of them against who ever I end up making for that character. (Not sure how to set this up for the Wizard who the Tank plays at being a bodyguard for, but that will come with whatever I end up making to fight him)

With that info, anything you would suggest?

Rogue/Assassin/Duelist? Yeah, that's pretty low OP. Any undead, ooze, construct, elemental, or anything else immune to critical hits completely disregards all those precision bonuses, like Sneak Attack, Death Attack, or Precise Strike. Your golem doesn't even need tremor sense. It's already immune to most of his damage.

As for the Ogre, he's only (should be) a 10th level Swordsage, which is not a tank class. Throw Grease on him and laugh as he can't make the Reflex save to stand up. A Shot on the Run Scout should do him in pretty quickly. If you want to be mean about it, make it a high strength Scout using a +1 Distance Atlatl (100ft range increment, max range 1000ft) and just pluck away.

If it's a battlefield control wizard, then listen to our ever-so-evil Leveler.

[Eldariel]

It has the highest possibility of success for a noncaster.

Really? Have you went through all the options? I'd much rather have a decent offense and worse defense than waste all my levels on a bunch of defensive tricks and sit back letting the enemy rip me apart. E.g. Eternal Blade seems far superior shell, giving you an immediate action turn to actually get an attack in.

This approach leads to the Tarrasque Dilemma of "how to have relevant offense".


Also, pierce magical protection doesn't care if the target is immune to damage. It works off damage dealt not damage taken. (important distinction)

I'd wish to see the rules quotes to support D&D making a distinction here. That said, it ultimately shouldn't matter overtly much since no caster should have a reason to personally get adjacent to a derp with a sword anyways.


As for a ghostformed caster, they cannot teleport as no surface except force effects can support them.

I don't think "support" is a rules-defined term so we'd default to the real world definition. Physics-wise, this instance of "support" means capable of bearing something's weight. Since ghostformed creatures are weightless, certainly this means anything can support their weight so they can teleport literally anywhere where something exists.

That said, it's ultimately quite irrelevant; a ghostformed caster shouldn't need teleport unless the attacker can go incorporeal too.


Inside the wall the caster doesn't have line-of-effect or line-of-sight in most cases.

He can cast Time Stop, come out for "free" without the risk of anyone doing anything, do whatever he feels like and go back if he feels so inclined. There are also plenty of special senses available to a caster between Shapechange, Mindbender and spells.


A superior invisible caster can still be detected in many ways. Any source of light on him will give him away (can't make them invisible). Environmental effects like rain or fog, or spotting his footsteps if he isn't flying. An Arcane Sight effect (multiple cheap ways for that) would reveal the magic aura of the superior invisibility itself. And then there are various nonstandard senses.

Well, Magic Aura can hide auras from Aura Sight, so that's kind of elementary for an all-day buffed Wizard. The rest depends; I don't see why a caster would need a source of light with access to magic. And yes, there are non-basic senses but the build doesn't include any; I posit it would be more productive to focus on e.g. those instead of ramping numbers.

Number ramping just leads to Tarrasque or Tarrasque++, which is a wholly inefficient approach since it doesn't even try to wrest the temporary or strategic advantages, it focuses wholly on a tactical engagement that may or may not even be possible. Yes, magic still does it better but I posit the chances of a mage slayer are much better if he at least does the best he can to play the strategic and temporary game to get a trick the opponent does not expect of him.

[firruna]

Rogue/Assassin/Duelist? Yeah, that's pretty low OP. Any undead, ooze, construct, elemental, or anything else immune to critical hits completely disregards all those precision bonuses, like Sneak Attack, Death Attack, or Precise Strike. Your golem doesn't even need tremor sense. It's already immune to most of his damage.


He has such a high stealth score (hose ruled instead of hide+move silently) Every skill point he could, all his cloths/ring/amulets/anything that can is giving him more. That he does not need to go invisible to be as good as, so I gave tremer scenes so I can find him, not to stop the extra damage.



As for the Ogre, he's only (should be) a 10th level Swordsage, which is not a tank class. Throw Grease on him and laugh as he can't make the Reflex save to stand up. A Shot on the Run Scout should do him in pretty quickly. If you want to be mean about it, make it a high strength Scout using a +1 Distance Atlatl (100ft range increment, max range 1000ft) and just pluck away.
If it's a battlefield control wizard, then listen to our ever-so-evil Leveler.

He has INSANE health, and a lot of attacks, with decent AC, so he has become the party's tank.

[Sir Chuckles]

He has such a high stealth score (hose ruled instead of hide+move silently) Every skill point he could, all his cloths/ring/amulets/anything that can is giving him more. That he does not need to go invisible to be as good as, so I gave tremer scenes so I can find him, not to stop the extra damage.
A simpler solution would be to not give him a place to hide. If he's not an 8th level Assassin, he doesn't have Hide in Plain Sight. Even if he does have it, he can't re-Hide once spotted.


He has INSANE health, and a lot of attacks, with decent AC, so he has become the party's tank.
So don't target his health. Target his Con, his Dex, his Will. I'm not sure how he'd have "insane" health with just 18d8+Con health. +6 Con from his race helps, but unless he's cheesed it out, a Human Knight 21 could have more equal or more health.
If you want it to be a beatstick fight, it's going to look like "Tank" fighting the Assassin. They're already near-perfect foils of each other.

I'll say keep the construct/golem thing for the assassin, and throw something that can hit the "tank" where it hurts. A Beguiler could work. If you want to tie the fights together, an Artificer with a lot of wands could work.

[CIDE]

Just an idea to include somehow; I had a (mostly) theoretical character that was a Warforged character that had an Energy Transformation Field (spell compendium) whose "point" in space was within an open bag of holding. It was tuned to a repair spell. It'd be easy to have several bags of holding keyed to different spells as needed.

Down side is however you build it you basically need the whole build built around this.... Just an idea though.

[firruna]

Just an idea to include somehow; I had a (mostly) theoretical character that was a Warforged character that had an Energy Transformation Field (spell compendium) whose "point" in space was within an open bag of holding. It was tuned to a repair spell. It'd be easy to have several bags of holding keyed to different spells as needed.

Down side is however you build it you basically need the whole build built around this.... Just an idea though.

That sounds interesting, how ever I do not understand what you mean by Energy Transformation in a bag of holding?

[firruna]

A simpler solution would be to not give him a place to hide. If he's not an 8th level Assassin, he doesn't have Hide in Plain Sight. Even if he does have it, he can't re-Hide once spotted.
He has hide in plane site, Rogue Lv. 5, Assassin Lv. 9, Duelist Lv. 6.



So don't target his health. Target his Con, his Dex, his Will. I'm not sure how he'd have "insane" health with just 18d8+Con health. +6 Con from his race helps, but unless he's cheesed it out, a Human Knight 21 could have more equal or more health.
If you want it to be a beatstick fight, it's going to look like "Tank" fighting the Assassin. They're already near-perfect foils of each other.

I'll say keep the construct/golem thing for the assassin, and throw something that can hit the "tank" where it hurts. A Beguiler could work. If you want to tie the fights together, an Artificer with a lot of wands could work.

My apologies, I remembered wrong, and did not check the copy of his sheet I have, he is a Warblade... My bad...
How ever I have what I am running agents him done for now. Scout 4/ranger 16(longbow) Hound Archon. +5 icy Blast, Composite Longbow (+5str) of speed. Improved many shot.

If you have any idea of how to get more speed for this character, I could use them, the Wablade has 8ft move speed, and the Scout/Ranger only has 40ft.

As for the spell caster, what do you guys think of a pair of spell thieves? I have the spell list so that they always take what he uses most, not sure if thats to hard for him. I have the 'default' spell list for him if you want to see it.

[Theomniadept]

If your characters have committed offenses to any gods then you could have each of them fight an Aleax from Book of Exalted Deeds. You get permanent bonuses for killing one and an Aleax is just a construct version of the player character in question; what better way to become a god than to fight yourself?

[firruna]

If your characters have committed offenses to any gods then you could have each of them fight an Aleax from Book of Exalted Deeds. You get permanent bonuses for killing one and an Aleax is just a construct version of the player character in question; what better way to become a god than to fight yourself?

Thank you! I LOVE that I idea, in concept at least. Will go read up on that now!

[Theomniadept]

Thank you! I LOVE that I idea, in concept at least. Will go read up on that now!

No matter how difficult it is (we are talking about a copy of a player with all D10 hit dice, immunities to almost everything, and the ability to shapechang einto something related to the deity in question) the players won't complain at all when they win and get a typeless +2 to Wisdom, +1 insight to initiative, and +2 perfection AC permanently. Also SR = the HD of the Aleax (doesn't go up in level but even if they killed one at level 1 they still get 1 SR meaning 1 in 20 spells fails).

[TuggyNE]

That sounds interesting, how ever I do not understand what you mean by Energy Transformation in a bag of holding?

A bag of holding has a pretty substantial area inside it which is basically a demiplane. Cast an energy transformation field in that, attuned to some helpful spell, and then use some convenient method of powering it up (an immovable rod is a nice cheesy one), and there you go.

[firruna]

No matter how difficult it is (we are talking about a copy of a player with all D10 hit dice, immunities to almost everything, and the ability to shapechang einto something related to the deity in question) the players won't complain at all when they win and get a typeless +2 to Wisdom, +1 insight to initiative, and +2 perfection AC permanently. Also SR = the HD of the Aleax (doesn't go up in level but even if they killed one at level 1 they still get 1 SR meaning 1 in 20 spells fails).

Running one of them for sure, not sure agents who, but its happening.

[Sir Chuckles]

He has hide in plane site, Rogue Lv. 5, Assassin Lv. 9, Duelist Lv. 6.

My apologies, I remembered wrong, and did not check the copy of his sheet I have, he is a Warblade... My bad...
How ever I have what I am running agents him done for now. Scout 4/ranger 16(longbow) Hound Archon. +5 icy Blast, Composite Longbow (+5str) of speed. Improved many shot.

If you have any idea of how to get more speed for this character, I could use them, the Wablade has 8ft move speed, and the Scout/Ranger only has 40ft.

As for the spell caster, what do you guys think of a pair of spell thieves? I have the spell list so that they always take what he uses most, not sure if thats to hard for him. I have the 'default' spell list for him if you want to see it.

The point still stands. Unless he's cheesed out his Constitution massively, 8d8+10d12 is still less than 21d12 of a Human Knight or Barbarian. I can see a lot in comparions to a Rogue, Wizard, and Cleric, but far from insane.

Does the Scout/Ranger have Swift Hunter? If not, then he should.
As for Speed, a 1 level dip in Barbarian, Boots of Springing and Striding, the Epic item Boots of Swiftness all give speed bonuses. Boosting speed is cheap. If you really want to, you can take the effects of the Rapid Wrath weapon and put it onto a different weapon, such a gauntlets or making the bow Elvencraft so that melee enchantments can be put on it. Rapid Wrath is a +1 Mighty Cleaving Shortspear at doubles the wielder's land speed.
Sooo... That plus Boots of Swiftness= x4 speed. So that 40ft becomes a 160ft.

As for the clones, don't do 1v1, do a full party fight for that. More interesting.

[firruna]

A bag of holding has a pretty substantial area inside it which is basically a demiplane. Cast an energy transformation field in that, attuned to some helpful spell, and then use some convenient method of powering it up (an immovable rod is a nice cheesy one), and there you go.

Cool, thanks.

[firruna]

The point still stands. Unless he's cheesed out his Constitution massively, 8d8+10d12 is still less than 21d12 of a Human Knight or Barbarian. I can see a lot in comparions to a Rogue, Wizard, and Cleric, but far from insane.

Does the Scout/Ranger have Swift Hunter? If not, then he should.
As for Speed, a 1 level dip in Barbarian, Boots of Springing and Striding, the Epic item Boots of Swiftness all give speed bonuses. Boosting speed is cheap. If you really want to, you can take the effects of the Rapid Wrath weapon and put it onto a different weapon, such a gauntlets or making the bow Elvencraft so that melee enchantments can be put on it. Rapid Wrath is a +1 Mighty Cleaving Shortspear at doubles the wielder's land speed.
Sooo... That plus Boots of Swiftness= x4 speed. So that 40ft becomes a 160ft.

Alright, thanks for the help, the scout/Ranger does have Swift Hunter. I will grab the boots, and look at the bow of Elvencraft.



As for the clones, don't do 1v1, do a full party fight for that. More interesting

So, would I put the hole part agents a party of their clones? Or would I put the hole party agents one of their clones? And if its everyone agents one of the clones, how do I do the bonus to AC/Wis/etc? Would it go to who's copy it is? Or do I give it to everyone?

Sorry for all the questions, I have not DMed all that much, and never played at this level at all.

[Sir Chuckles]

So, would I put the hole part agents a party of their clones? Or would I put the hole party agents one of their clones? And if its everyone agents one of the clones, how do I do the bonus to AC/Wis/etc? Would it go to who's copy it is? Or do I give it to everyone?

Sorry for all the questions, I have not DMed all that much, and never played at this level at all.

Whole party vs. all their clones. As per the entry, the clone can only be injured by the person it was sent to kill. They cannot be hurt nor hindered by anyone else. So no Tank giving the Assassin a flank, but it does help in the fact that the Wizard and Cleric can heal and buff their allies.

[firruna]

Whole party vs. all their clones. As per the entry, the clone can only be injured by the person it was sent to kill. They cannot be hurt nor hindered by anyone else. So no Tank giving the Assassin a flank, but it does help in the fact that the Wizard and Cleric can heal and buff their allies.
Cool, thanks for the help. This will be a fun game tomorrow.

[CIDE]

That sounds interesting, how ever I do not understand what you mean by Energy Transformation in a bag of holding?

Energy Transformation field needs to be cast on a zone. By RAW you can't for example put it on an object. So a loophole to make the field mobile is to cast it on the "zone" inside a bag of holding. You carry the zone with you. Otherwise it'd be a fixed point in space.

http://dndtools.eu/spells/magic-of-faerun--20/energy-transformation-field--1756/

[firruna]

Energy Transformation field needs to be cast on a zone. By RAW you can't for example put it on an object. So a loophole to make the field mobile is to cast it on the "zone" inside a bag of holding. You carry the zone with you. Otherwise it'd be a fixed point in space.

http://dndtools.eu/spells/magic-of-faerun--20/energy-transformation-field--1756/

Sounds like fun, I will look into that.

[Amaril Amakiir]

You could do as Xykon in SoD:

He ended the duel against Dorukan by casting energy drain, a 9th level spell that causes 2d4 negative levels, no save.

[firruna]

The swordsage is dead, and I didn't get a chance to run the Aleax before people had to leave, but I will be doing that sometime this week when next we meet.
Thanks to everyone who helped me here, I will be saving this thread to refer back to, and still getting emails if anyone has any other ideas I will continue reading them.