One level dips

[maniacalmojo]

So i have seen a lot of "one level dip" talk going about.

So...

What if you one level dipped for all 20 levels? Lets say the DM does not restrict multiclassing at all (monks and paladins can freely multiclass, no xp penalty ect)

Is it feasible?

[Necroticplague]

Yes, it is feasible. They key part would be to look for benefits based on character level, not class level. A lot of bonus feats could be obtained, so you could focus on one style you really like.

Classes tend to be a bit front loaded so people can survive to higher levels, so this heavy dipping build could take advantage of that.

[Cruiser1]

What if you one level dipped for all 20 levels? Lets say the DM does not restrict multiclassing at all (monks and paladins can freely multiclass, no xp penalty ect)
Are PrC dips allowed? If so then you might still be able to achieve a pretty high Tier 1 caster level after taking an initial level in Wizard, Cleric, or Druid.

Note that with one level dips, XP penalty will never apply, because XP penalty only applies when 2 or more base classes are 2 or more levels apart.

[cakellene]

Are there enough base classes to do this without using PrCs?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

You would really need to be using fractional BAB from UA for it to work out. In that case, something like...

Rogue 1/ Spellthief 1/ Psychic Rogue 1/ Sneak Attack Thug 1/ Ninja 1/ Assassin 1/ Psychic Assassin 1/ Bayushi Deceiver 1/ Unseen Seer 1/ Swordsage 1 (assassin's stance)... you get the idea.

[maniacalmojo]

Oh yeah PRC are totally acceptable if you qualify. So what kind of builds would be fun?

[.Zero]

This was made to maximize sneak attack damage and was not meant to be played.

This is not a build of mine.

Human

1 Fighter 1 - SA variant (UA) +1d6
2 Rogue 1 - +1d6
3 Rogue 2 - Evasion
4 Rogue 3 - +1d6, Penetrating Strike ACF (CC)
5 Lurk 1 - Additional +1d6 SA for every 2 pp spent
6 Lurk 2 - Psionic SA +1d6
7 Psychc Rogue 1 - +1d6
8 Spellthief 1 - +1d6
9 Assassin 1 - +1d6
10 Cancer Mage 1 - +1d6
11 Master of Masks 1 - +1d6 Assassin Mask
12 Nightsong Enforcer 1 - +1d6
13 Ronin 1 - +1d6
14 Justiciar of Taiia 1 - +1d6
15 Shadow Thief of Amn 1 - +1d6
16 Swordsage 1
17 Guild Thief 1 - +1d6
18 Swordsage 2 - +2d6 Assassin’s Stance
19 Unseen Seer 1 - +1d6
20 Unseen Seer 2 - Advance Learning: Hunter's Eye, +1d6 SA per 3 caster levels

You can easily qualify for every PrC requiring feats, and you should still have space for Craven and Practiced Spellcaster.

[Big Fau]

Half-Orc Fighter 1/Half-Orc Paragon 1/Orc Paragon 1/Barbarian 1/Ranger 1/Crusader 1/Warblade 1/Duskblade 1/Hexblade 1/Soulborn 1/Divine Mind 1/Paladin of Slaughter 1/Blackguard 1/Horizon Walker 1/War Mind 1/Slayer 1/Incarnum Blade 1/+3 more Full BAB PrCs (there's many of them).

So it's possible to be a Charger with nothing but dips, but extremely difficult due to prereqs. Choosing your feats carefully means you can end up with a viable character.

[John Longarrow]

Hmm...
How many full BAB classes are there?

You could build a melee combatant that can do a LOT with just one level dips. Toss in one class that gives casting and several that add +1 caster and you should be able to pull off a really good gish build!

[Vaz]

You would really need to be using fractional BAB from UA for it to work out. In that case, something like...

Rogue 1/ Spellthief 1/ Psychic Rogue 1/ Sneak Attack Thug 1/ Ninja 1/ Assassin 1/ Psychic Assassin 1/ Bayushi Deceiver 1/ Unseen Seer 1/ Swordsage 1 (assassin's stance)... you get the idea.

Cloistered Cleric dip lets you pick up the ability to use a Wand of Divine Power.

[Story]

Are there enough base classes to do this without using PrCs?

Have you seen just how many splatbooks there are for 3.5? I wouldn't be surprised if there were more than 20 full BAB classes alone.

[Yorrin]

Hmm...
How many full BAB classes are there?

You could build a melee combatant that can do a LOT with just one level dips. Toss in one class that gives casting and several that add +1 caster and you should be able to pull off a really good gish build!

Just off the top of my head:
Fighter
Barbarian
Paladin
Ranger
Knight
Duskblade
Warblade
Crusader
Hexblade
Samurai
Swashbuckler

So that's 11 base classes to start with (Barbarian and Paladin have alignment conflict, as do Hexblade and Paladin. Solve by using CE variant from UA.)

Note that 2lvl dips are often (though not always) more effective.
e.g. Barbarian 2 (for pounce and imp. trip)/Fighter 2 (2 feats)/Paladin 2(Cha to Saves)

[Forrestfire]

Cloistered Cleric dip lets you pick up the ability to use a Wand of Divine Power.

I don't think you'd even need a dip, given that you can just put ranks into UMD. Able Learner taken early would actually make easier.

You can then pick up Extend and Persist Spell, a minor schema of metamagic item, and a minor schema of divine power. All-day divine power at the cost of a few thousand gold and two or three feats (one of which can be granted by a location).

[Story]

Just off the top of my head:
Fighter
Barbarian
Paladin
Ranger
Knight
Duskblade
Warblade
Crusader
Hexblade
Samurai
Swashbuckler

So that's 11 base classes to start with (Barbarian and Paladin have alignment conflict, as do Hexblade and Paladin. Solve by using CE variant from UA.)


Don't forget Soulborn and Warrior!

Unfortunately, that still only brings it up to 13 and I can't find any more. It looks like you can't do it without going into setting specific, 3.0, or nonstandard base classes. Monster classes would work but don't allow multiclassing. Savage progressions allow multiclassing, but I don't see any full BAB ones.

Edit: There's also the Dwarf, Half Dragon, Half Orc, and Orc racial paragon classes, which can be taken at level 1, so that brings it up to 14, I guess. There's also Generic Warrior, but that explicitly isn't meant to be used with the rest.

Edit 2: If you count OA and CW Samurai as different classes, that would give 15, but I'm not sure this works by RAW.

[Necroticplague]

Don't forget Soulborn and Warrior!

Unfortunately, that still only brings it up to 13 and I can't find any more. It looks like you can't do it without going into setting specific, 3.0, or nonstandard base classes. Monster classes would work but don't allow multiclassing. Savage progressions allow multiclassing, but I don't see any full BAB ones.

Edit: There's also the Dwarf, Half Dragon, Half Orc, and Orc racial paragon classes, which can be taken at level 1, so that brings it up to 14, I guess. There's also Generic Warrior, but that explicitly isn't meant to be used with the rest.

Edit 2: If you count OA and CW Samurai as different classes, that would give 15, but I'm not sure this works by RAW.
Don't forget Generic Warrior, as well.

[Rubik]

Here's something I came up with that gives you the start of a 1-level-dip-only build which gives you full caster level: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15814948&postcount=6

[SinsI]

Hmm...
How many full BAB classes are there?

Does Cleric +Anything else that progresses divine spellcasting counts if he has a 24-hour Divine Power on?

[Meth In a Mine]

There was actually and advanced advneturer in an April Fool's Day issue of Dragon once, and he was I believe 25th level with 1st-3rd level dips. If I can get my filthy hands on a link I'll post it because I remember finding it kind funny to read.

[Forrestfire]

"Morgan Ironwolf," a Barbarian 2/Cleric 1/Fighter 2/Monk 2/Paladin 2/Ranger 2/Rogue 2/Sorcerer 4/Assassin 1/Shadowdancer 2.

He also had a small pile of artifacts and a hilariously overburdened backpack. That was a great article. His main weapons were a +5 Dancing Keen Speed Vorpal Wounding Longsword and an Axe of the Dwarvish Lords.

I think the best part of that one was his familiar: "Unnamed XXIII" the hawk.

[Story]

Don't forget Generic Warrior, as well.

I didn't. :smalltongue: