More than one Prestige Class changing your creature type.

[St Fan]

There are a few Prestige Classes that can, usually at their capstone level, have a feature (often called "[something] apotheosis") changing your basic creature type. Just from the index of prestige classes PDF (not including subtypes changes):

Construct - Green Star Adept
Dragon - Dragon Disciple
Elemental - Elemental Savant
Fey - Swanmay, Wildrunner
Giant - Thrall of Kostchtchie
Outsider - Acolyte of the Skin, Alienist, Initiate of Pistis Sophia, Shadowcrafter, Troubadour of Stars
Plant - Thrall of Zuggtomy

Now, how would it work for a character to take TWO of such prestige classes up to the capstone levels, and thus reaching both apotheosis?

Would the most recent apotheosis take over the previous one? Would the first change in creature type prevent any new one? Would they gain both set of abilities, or remove some of the hindrances of the previous type?

I've been wondering about this especially over Green Star Adept, and wondering if this could turn one back into a living being and regain his constitution score...

[John Longarrow]

You COULD just go to level 20 Monk... :smallbiggrin:

[Yorrin]

Well, in many cases it isnt clear. Savage Species comes the closest to a ruling on this when on page 142 it talks about "The Type Pyramid," essentially saying that some types take precedence over others. They break them down into 7 categories:

1- Construct, Outsider, Undead
2- Elemental, Ooze, Plant
3- Aberration
4- Dragon, Humanoid(Shapechanger)
5- Fey, Giant
6- Magical Beast, Monstrous Humanoid
7- Animal, Vermin, Humanoid

So you can move higher up the list (toward group 1) but not back down it (exceptions exist with specific templates, like Incarnate Construct). That being said I can see how it would make sense if you're acquiring a template of a lower tier later to change your type accordingly. Ultimately, I'd just have to say "ask your DM," as there's no RAW for that unless you accept the above "Type Pyramid" from a 3.0 source.

[Socratov]

I think the problems arise when trying to write something in the "Race: _____" field. Most of the capstones are an acquired template or a change of base creature though some things may occur: for instance the discussion of a Con score. Let's say you have Dragon Disciple and Mineral WarriorGreen Star Adept clashing with each other. one makes you a construct, the other a Half-Dragon (I am disregarding the dubious raw leading to disqualifying yourself for the PrC). Well, logic demands you will become a Half-Dragon construct (no matter the timing): a Half-Dragon who is a construct instead of flesh. In this case the 'specific over general' rule comes into effect: construct says you don't have a con score. The acquired template (like Half-Dragon in the case of Dragon Disciple), nor the capstone says anything about a changing con score.

note: don't do this: removing a con score form a class that uses con modifiers for something is not a great idea optimisation wise.

[Urpriest]

First: don't use the Savage Species type pyramid. It's dumb, and they didn't put it in the 3.5 core monster rules so even WotC agrees.

Second: it's just a matter of sequence. Add the modifications in order, you're the result.

[grarrrg]

Dragon Disciple and Mineral Warrior clashing with each other. one makes you a construct, the other a Half-Dragon...construct says you don't have a con score.

I think you have the wrong template.
Mineral Warrior (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20031003e) does nothing to change your type (well, it gives you the Earth Sub-Type but that's it), and it gives +4 CON.

[Socratov]

I think you have the wrong template.
Mineral Warrior (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20031003e) does nothing to change your type (well, it gives you the Earth Sub-Type but that's it), and it gives +4 CON.

oops, thanks. I have amended my post to say Green Star Adept.

[St Fan]

Thanks for your answers. As I expected, there's no RAW on the matter. Adding the modifiers in sequence seems the way to do it, but it gets confusing when some of the templates conflict.

In particular, many of the powers granted by the Elemental Perfection of an Elemental Savant are linked to the change to an elemental. If another class feature change the creature type, would he lose those powers?

(As for "asking the GM", it's a bit difficult for me since I am the GM.)

[Urpriest]

Thanks for your answers. As I expected, there's no RAW on the matter. Adding the modifiers in sequence seems the way to do it, but it gets confusing when some of the templates conflict.

In particular, many of the powers granted by the Elemental Perfection of an Elemental Savant are linked to the change to an elemental. If another class feature change the creature type, would he lose those powers?

(As for "asking the GM", it's a bit difficult for me since I am the GM.)

In general, if your creature type changes, and you don't explicitly lose your old special qualities, then nothing removes the qualities from your old creature type either. There's nothing that distinguishes them from other qualities once you have them.

[Socratov]

In general, if your creature type changes, and you don't explicitly lose your old special qualities, then nothing removes the qualities from your old creature type either. There's nothing that distinguishes them from other qualities once you have them.

unless you specifically lose them lik ethe Con stat as a constuct, undead or such. and once lost you can't get a bonus to it (or use it at any rate).