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boxfox
2014-03-21, 05:44 AM
Hey folks.

Some of you may have read the homebrew Shapeless class I put up in that forum, but for the rest, it's basically a druid variant with nothing but extensive wild shape (much like the master of many forms or 3.0 shifter).
My questions here have to do with an ability that functions just like the MMF's lvl 7 ability Extraordinary Wild Shape, in which the player gains all extraordinary qualities of the shapes it takes.

I need a list of everything that counts as an Ex. Special Quality. Most stuff is listed, but the things I'm wondering about are things like Subtypes, Racial skill bonuses, Racial feats, Bonus feats, and Normal feats.

I tried googling this stuff and ended up with a bunch of archived garbage where people just argued for pages...I'm hoping for something else here...preferably RAW without opinions.

sleepyphoenixx
2014-03-21, 06:59 AM
The ability to cast spells can't be (Ex) since that would mean it functions in an AMF. The point is moot.

The arguments about getting racial spellcasting usually concern Shapechange or special Wild Shape abilities like those from Planar Shepherd.
Afaik racial spellcasting is usually listed without a descriptor.
Since most of the shapechanging abilities list "(Ex) and (Su) abilities" it can be argued that since spellcasting is neither it is not gained.

boxfox
2014-03-21, 07:56 AM
Thanks, Sleepy! That really answered everything about the spells part of the question. I edited my original post and removed that part of the query.

Any insight about the rest of it?

Jeff the Green
2014-03-21, 08:41 AM
The ability to cast spells can't be (Ex) since that would mean it functions in an AMF. The point is moot.

The arguments about getting racial spellcasting usually concern Shapechange or special Wild Shape abilities like those from Planar Shepherd.
Afaik racial spellcasting is usually listed without a descriptor.
Since most of the shapechanging abilities list "(Ex) and (Su) abilities" it can be argued that since spellcasting is neither it is not gained.

No. First, specific vs. general applies. AMf's wording says that you can't cast, so you can't cast regardless of whether it's Ex or not. Second, there are ways to cast in an AMF, and if it were Su or Sp those wouldn't work because th ability to cast itself would be suppressed. Finally, you don't actually lose the ability to cast spells I an AMF; casting is just disallowed.

boxfox
2014-03-21, 09:08 AM
Thanks, Jeff.
I'm not too worried about the spells anymore, which is why I removed that part of the question.
Any insight on feats?

Curmudgeon
2014-03-21, 10:57 AM
Any insight on feats?
Some feats are either explicitly Supernatural, or Supernatural by category (Divine, Exalted, & c.). Most feats are untyped. I don't know of a single feat which is declared to be Extraordinary.