Ideas for difficult encounters

[Irk]

Tactics are definitely important, but in my campaign's current location, they won't matter too much. All I need are some difficult encounters for about five sixth level characters, all very highly optimized. Preferably, the encounters would consist of undead or constructs. Though they are only sixth level, one of them has managed to acquire up to sixth level spells, so keep that in mind. It is not an OOC issue, I made four out of the five characters, I just need some ideas to make it more interesting. If more information is required, let me know.

I was thinking perhaps drowned with martial adept levels. I may go so far as to pull out the adamantine clockwork horror. I haven't done anything with spell casting yet, so that's an option. Also, CR is not really all that much of an issue, I'd be willing to accept up to CR 10-12.

[AlanBruce]

Though they are only sixth level, one of them has managed to acquire up to sixth level spells, so keep that in mind.

I am keeping this paricular aspect in mind. Would you mind explaining how he got access to 6th level spells at 6th level? And also the party make up, since that first factor alone will define what kind of encounters they could/should be facing balance wise.

[Irk]

I am keeping this paricular aspect in mind. Would you mind explaining how he got access to 6th level spells at 6th level? And also the party make up, since that first factor alone will define what kind of encounters they could/should be facing balance wise.
Sure, I suspected that this would be required.
The characters are a whisper gnome Martial Monk Invisible Fist Decisive Strike Monk 2/Factotum 4, an anthropomorphic bat Druid 6, a ghost (ghostwalk ghost) unseelie fey gnome Beguiler 1/shadowcraft Mage 5, an Illumian Paladin 6,. and a phrenic Incarnate construct warforged shaper 6. I do trust them all, we are great friends, have been so for a while.
I do trust that they have sixth level spells, but I can not exactly explain how, so it may seem like I have been screwed over. I will message them on Facebook and post it over here once they respond, but for now, just assume that they do.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Include Shadows with the elite array, advanced to 6 HD, which makes them CR 4 (it takes an additional 4 HD for an undead to gain +1 CR, they're only up 3 HD). Their feats (with one flaw, Insomniac (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=258440#30)) are Lifesense, Expeditious Dodge, Mobility, and Spring Attack. They're not an encounter in and of themselves, but there's a few scattered throughout the area. They hide in the floor/walls/ceiling until they notice a living creature, which they follow. They'll need to be peeking out of their hiding spot, but if they're peeking in a natural shadow they should still have total concealment. It would take a Search check to notice them, but if they see their potential victims searching they'll retreat into the total cover of the environment and find a new spot to peak out some distance away.

Once they see a creature they're following start fighting something, they'll start spring attacking out of a solid surface every other round to deal strength damage. Once their victim's battle with whatever they encountered is over, the shadow stops coming out and goes back to following them again. Gradually the party should pick up a few of these shadows, and they should always try to target creatures with the lowest flat-footed touch AC first. Their goal is mostly to feed on the strength of their victims, but if there are multiple living creatures they won't mind taking out a few with low Str scores quickly.

[docnessuno]

Sure, I suspected that this would be required.
The characters are a whisper gnome Martial Monk Invisible Fist Decisive Strike Monk 2/Factotum 4, an anthropomorphic bat Druid 6, a ghost (ghostwalk ghost) unseelie fey gnome Beguiler 1/shadowcraft Mage 5, an Illumian Paladin 6,. and a phrenic Incarnate construct warforged shaper 6. I do trust them all, we are great friends, have been so for a while.
I do trust that they have sixth level spells, but I can not exactly explain how, so it may seem like I have been screwed over. I will message them on Facebook and post it over here once they respond, but for now, just assume that they do.

I don't think incarnate construct is a valid template to apply on a Warforged (construct =/= living construct)

[Irk]

I don't think incarnate construct is a valid template to apply on a Warforged (construct =/= living construct)
Honestly, I'm glad that character was invalidated. It was too complicated for anyone in my group to play anyway. Thanks for pointing this out.

Biff, as usual you provide some of the most helpful ideas. That's definitely going to be used.

Any other ideas? specifically to deal with the Shadowcraft mage. It's tricky because they incorporeal and has a stack of immunities. Surprisingly, the character is vulnerable to sleep effects and stunning, so that's something. If you don't have ghostwalk, the ghost template is actually an outsider, if that helps.

[bekeleven]

I don't think incarnate construct is a valid template to apply on a Warforged (construct =/= living construct)

Living Construct is a subtype of construct, and Incarnate Construct applies to any Construct.

It's rules legal, the fluff just fall down go boom, because you're making a living thing into a living thing.

[RavynsLand]

Ring-out match in a cramped arena filled with bull-rush-happy large creatures, and there's a 100 foot drop if you fall off.

[Azoth]

Undead Chess: Large room, both exits seal when the party enters. (Your job to make sure they can't just port out). Various undead are near the exit, but only standing on large 5ftx5ft black tiles. As the party looks about they notice the room is checker boarded with white and black tiles. Stepping onto a white tile drops a cure moderate wounds on the creature. Stepping onto a black tile drops an inflict moderate on the creature. The tiles automatically reset when pressure is taken off of them.

Enjoy fighting enemies that continuously heal just by moving, and can force you into inflict traps.

[3WhiteFox3]

Biff already went over one of your best tools for optimizing encounters within the rules. The broken HD advancement rules (exhibit A: Seerow's The Humanoid (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=332557)). However, another often untapped gold mine is the non-associated class rules. Basically, monsters with class levels are given a CR increase on a 1:1 ratio of levels to CR normally. Non-associated class levels are whenever the GM feels that the class levels do not mesh with the monsters and they increase CR by 1 for every 2 levels (up to the creatures base RHD).

The implication in the DMG is that brutish monsters are associated with the combat classes, skilled monsters take the skill monkeys and monsters with racial casting are associated with whatever caster class they advance. So by abusing the faulty logic that the game designers were basing this rule off of we can make some truly powerful monsters.

Also, thanks to the following rule...


When you improve a monster by adding Hit Dice, use Table: Improved Monster CR Increase to determine the effect on the creature’s CR. Keep in mind that many monsters that advance by adding Hit Dice also increase in size. Do not stack this CR increase with any increase from class levels. In general, once you’ve doubled a creature’s CR, you should closely watch any additional increases in its abilities. Adding Hit Dice to a creature improves several of its abilities, and radical increases might not follow this progression indefinitely. Compare the monster’s improved attack bonus, saving throw bonuses, and any DCs of its special abilities from the HD increase to typical characters of the appropriate level and adjust the CR accordingly.

The CR increase for extra Hit Dice is overlapped by the class level's CR increase, and nothing prevents you from stacking both methods.

Note: I'm mainly trying to squeeze as much power out of a small CR this method could be toned down (or even amped up by increasing the CR of the critter) as required.

For an example take a Choker advanced to 10 HD. Then give it 9 Cleric levels (or Wisdom based caster class of your choice) for a measly +4 increase. Giving us a 10 HD/Cleric 9 Choker as a CR 7 monster. Except the choker gets two standard actions and casts 5th level spells. Quadrupling the number of chokers is only CR 11 for a total of 8 standard actions. Even if they all use one action to buff, they've got another action to cast offensive spells with. The action economy alone should be enough to present a strong challenge.

A similar approach can be taken to constructs and undead (my preference is using awaken undead on a skeleton with a high HD advancement but low CR; sprinkle in your favorite undead boosting methods as needed. Corpsecrafter, Desecrate, etc...) as long as they have an intelligence of at least 3. The results probably won't be quite as dramatic as the above, but they'll be up there.

Hope that helps.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Any undead should have been created by a Dread Necromancer 8+ with the Corpsecrafter line of feats in LM, in the area of a Fell Energy Desecrate spell with an evil altar present. Fell Energy Spell from Dragon Compendium increases any bonuses granted to undead by the spell by +2, so the normal +1 hp/level from Desecrate becomes +3 hp/level, and that gets doubled to +6 by the presence of the evil altar. All of those things give them the following benefits:

An Enhancement bonus of +4 to Str and Dex.
+10 HP per HD
+2 natural armor.
+4 initiative.
+10 ft. land speed.
+4 turn resistance.
+1d6 cold damage on natural weapon attacks.
When destroyed, they explode for (1 + 1/2 HD)d6 negative energy damage in a 10-ft. radius spread (Reflex DC 15 half), which also heals other undead.

For example, an Awakened Skeleton of a Fleshraker Dinosaur that was advanced to 9 HD (large) is only CR 4, and will have the following stats:

Large Undead
HD: 9d12+90; HP 154; Initiative +14; Speed 60 ft.; AC 19 (+4 natural, -1 size, +6 Dex), touch 15, flat-footed 13; BAB +6, Grp +15; Space/reach 10 ft./10 ft. Preferably someone should be casting (Extended) Mage Armor on it every day.
Attack: Claw +14 melee (1d8+9, +1d6 cold, plus poison)
Full Attack: 2 claws +14 melee (1d8+9, +1d6 cold, plus poison) and bite +9 melee (1d8+4, +1d6 cold) and tail +9 melee (1d8+4, +1d6 cold, plus poison)
Charge (Power Attack for -2, Leap Attack, Leaping Pounce): 2 claws +14 melee (1d8+13, +1d6 cold, plus poison) and bite +9 melee (1d8+8, +1d6 cold) and tail +9 melee (1d8+8, +1d6 cold, plus poison) and rake +9 melee (1d8+8, +1d6 cold) (Give it Armbands of Might for another +4 damage on each of those.)
Special Attacks: Destruction Retribution 5d6, Leaping Pounce, Poison DC 14, Rake +9 melee (1d8+4, +1d6 cold), Mage Slayer.
Special Qualities: Scent, Low-Light Vision, Immunity to cold, DR 5/bludgeoning, Darkvision 60 ft., undead traits, +6 turn resistance, +2 to Will saves to resist effects which control undead.
Fort +3; Ref +9; Will +7
Str 29; Dex 23; Con -; Int 2; Wis 10; Cha 1
Skills: Jump +35, Spellcraft -3, Hide +14 (+16 in forested areas)
Feats: Improved Initiative, Improved Natural Attack: Claw*, Power Attack, Track, Mage Slayer, Leap Attack.
CR: 4

*As-printed it does not qualify for the +4 BAB prerequisite of Improved Natural Attack, so per the core MM errata this should become a racial bonus feat and the creature gains another standard feat, which in this case is Power Attack.

[Irk]

Hope that helps.
More than you could possibly imagine. My party is going to get the nastiest of surprises.


Any undead should have been created by a Dread Necromancer 8+ with the Corpsecrafter line of feats in LM, in the area of a Fell Energy Desecrate spell with an evil altar present. Fell Energy Spell from Dragon Compendium increases any bonuses granted to undead by the spell by +2, so the normal +1 hp/level from Desecrate becomes +3 hp/level, and that gets doubled to +6 by the presence of the evil altar. All of those things give them the following benefits:

An Enhancement bonus of +4 to Str and Dex.
+10 HP per HD
+2 natural armor.
+4 initiative.
+10 ft. land speed.
+4 turn resistance.
+1d6 cold damage on natural weapon attacks.
When destroyed, they explode for (1 + 1/2 HD)d6 negative energy damage in a 10-ft. radius spread (Reflex DC 15 half), which also heals other undead.

For example, an Awakened Skeleton of a Fleshraker Dinosaur that was advanced to 9 HD (large) is only CR 4, and will have the following stats:

Large Undead
HD: 9d12+90; HP 154; Initiative +14; Speed 60 ft.; AC 19 (+4 natural, -1 size, +6 Dex), touch 15, flat-footed 13; BAB +6, Grp +15; Space/reach 10 ft./10 ft. Preferably someone should be casting (Extended) Mage Armor on it every day.
Attack: Claw +14 melee (1d8+9, +1d6 cold, plus poison)
Full Attack: 2 claws +14 melee (1d8+9, +1d6 cold, plus poison) and bite +9 melee (1d8+4, +1d6 cold) and tail +9 melee (1d8+4, +1d6 cold, plus poison)
Charge (Power Attack for -2, Leap Attack, Leaping Pounce): 2 claws +14 melee (1d8+13, +1d6 cold, plus poison) and bite +9 melee (1d8+8, +1d6 cold) and tail +9 melee (1d8+8, +1d6 cold, plus poison) and rake +9 melee (1d8+8, +1d6 cold) (Give it Armbands of Might for another +4 damage on each of those.)
Special Attacks: Destruction Retribution 5d6, Leaping Pounce, Poison DC 14, Rake +9 melee (1d8+4, +1d6 cold), Mage Slayer.
Special Qualities: Scent, Low-Light Vision, Immunity to cold, DR 5/bludgeoning, Darkvision 60 ft., undead traits, +6 turn resistance, +2 to Will saves to resist effects which control undead.
Fort +3; Ref +9; Will +7
Str 29; Dex 23; Con -; Int 2; Wis 10; Cha 1
Skills: Jump +35, Spellcraft -3, Hide +14 (+16 in forested areas)
Feats: Improved Initiative, Improved Natural Attack: Claw*, Power Attack, Track, Mage Slayer, Leap Attack.
CR: 4

*As-printed it does not qualify for the +4 BAB prerequisite of Improved Natural Attack, so per the core MM errata this should become a racial bonus feat and the creature gains another standard feat, which in this case is Power Attack.

Thank you SO much! I love you guys.

This is all DEFINITELY going to be implemented