Ascetic Archetype Questions

[Gorr_the_Gastly]

This is the Ascetic (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/cleric/archetypes/kobold-press/ascetic)archetyp by Kobold Press for the Cleric.

I wanted to know how it rates and how it would rate if it granted the following:
Improved Unarmed Strike or at least Unarmed Strike as a proficient weapon.

Convert Channel Energy into a Wis based modifier (We already have a MAD as a hatter monk thank you!)

Change Wise Defense to add Wis to Touch Ac as well.

[VexingFool]

That archetype is so overpowered and unbalanced already. No need to make any 'improvements' to it.

Wise defense already adds to touch AC.

[Ziegander]

This is the Ascetic (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/cleric/archetypes/kobold-press/ascetic)archetyp by Kobold Press for the Cleric.

I wanted to know how it rates and how it would rate if it granted the following:
Improved Unarmed Strike or at least Unarmed Strike as a proficient weapon.

Convert Channel Energy into a Wis based modifier (We already have a MAD as a hatter monk thank you!)

Change Wise Defense to add Wis to Touch Ac as well.

Wow, that's hilariously overpowered.

[Gorr_the_Gastly]

And exactly why is it overpowered?

Martial with full spellcasting?

[chronomatophobe]

A cleric shouldn't be in your face anyway. Giving them what amounts to free untyped bonus to touch AC is a pittance to pay for a spontaneous cure or inflict.

EDIT: That alone would have been enough to call it OP. I just read the rest of the entry.

[Gorr_the_Gastly]

They also cannot wear armor and do not get this bonus if you wear armor. So while I would agree it would be OP if they could wear armor. But they cannot.

So again how is that?

[VexingFool]

It's overpowered because you give up next to nothing for a whole lot. It's Cleric++ with no dimished spellcasting. Compare it to the IMO relatively weak Paizo archetype Cloisterd Cleric which gets dimished spellcasting and loses a domain. Lets go through what you give up and what you gain.

GIVE UP
Armor and shield proficiencies
Weapon proficiencies, Simple and Deities favored Weapon
Spontaneous casting cure or inflicts

YOU GAIN
WIS to AC
Limited weapon list including an Exotic weapon.
Spontaneous casting of a spell list including several arcane spells (HASTE!)
6+ skillpoints per level
11!!bonus feats (sure some aren't great but there some decent ones)
Floating enhancement bonus to Physical attributes based on your main casting stat.

Plus you have full casting, channel energy and don't have to give up any domains.

[Gorr_the_Gastly]

See thank you, that is what I wanted to see. Now how would you do the monk Archetype for a Cleric then? Since this is basically that.

[Ziegander]

See thank you, that is what I wanted to see.

He literally just listed what the archetype already says.


Now how would you do the monk Archetype for a Cleric then? Since this is basically that.

Let's see, give up simple weapons, armor proficiency, and shield proficiency to gain Improved Unarmed Strike (and proficiency with Unarmed Strike) as well as Wis to AC. This is already a pretty awesome trade. +4 or +5 to AC with no check penalty, no max dex, and no speed reduction as opposed to medium and heavy armors offering higher AC and magical properties. At high level, the armors don't even offer higher AC, so you lose nothing for a big gain.

Leave skills and skill points alone. Or if you insist, give them 4 + Int skill points per level and trade Appraise and Linguistics for Acrobatics and Perception.

Lose both domains and all domain spell slots. Lose Channel Energy. Lose Spontaneous Casting. Lose one spell slot per day of every spell level (in addition to the lost domain spell slots).

Gain good Reflex save, unarmed strike damage dice as Monk, gain Bodily Manipulation class feature at 1st level, gain a bonus feat at 2nd level, 8th level, and 16th level (from Monk list), Evasion class feature at 4th level, Purity of Body class feature at 6th level, gain Mind is Body class feature at 10th level, gain Diamond Body class feature at 12th level, Diamond Soul class feature at 14th level, Timeless Body class feature at 18th level, and Perfect Self class feature at 20th level.

At 1st, and maybe still 2nd and 3rd level, you'll be a bit weaker than a traditional Monk, but once you get to any higher levels than that you'll pull ahead quite quickly. Spells are amazingly powerful and incredibly versatile. But, as a balancing factor, you are probably considerably less powerful and versatile than a straight Cleric would be and that's okay.

[Iolaus]

Warpriest - weapon focus unarmed strike, buy a monk belt. You have your monk