The DM's best laid plans...

[Immabozo]

So I am in a game and the DM throws us into a situation with the town "hero" hiring us as backup to cover his back while he fights a lich. I think the lich is an important plot character.

So we kill the lich's backup and the hero comes back to us and says the lich is dead. The lich then attacks our party, crawling up the hall like anikin crawling away from the lava after he catches fire, after obi-wan cuts off his legs at the knees.

We then attack the lich, who was at like 2 hp and "dropped" after melting the hero who hired us.

The DM calls for a know. (religion) check and then reminds us that he will come back and the only way to kill him is to destroy his phylactary.

So after thinking, as a Psion, I manifest Psionic Plane Shift, which can send the target to another dimension, in addition to another plane.

I am no expert on arcane spells, but I do not recall reading any arcane power that can cross dimensions. So the lich isn't dead, I just dont think he can get back to us.

So what have you done to the DM's best laid plains?

[Inevitability]

Ahem. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/planeShift.htm)

[Zytil]

I could be wrong, but don't liches regenerate at their phylactery anyway? Rendering the whole plane shifting thing moot?

[Immabozo]

I could be wrong, but don't liches regenerate at their phylactery anyway? Rendering the whole plane shifting thing moot?

Do they? Thats unfortunate

[Immabozo]

Ahem. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/planeShift.htm)

damn. Well I didn't know that! Like I said, I am no spell effects master. Never played a spellcaster, and this is my first psion

[Bobbyjackcorn]

I must say, this was entertaining to read if nothing else than because of the very brief responses.
Dealing with any monster or spell for the first time, you are bound to make some mistakes or misunderstand some things, it's nothing to be ashamed of.

[Windstorm]

Well, you get a recurring villain, that's something to look forward to.

As for the spirit of the thread, I think my favorite is having the party wizard botch a teleport that we were using to drop in on a dracolich; resulting in us dropping into the horde room instead (DM used the lair map he had for botch direction roll) The warlock was a paranoid type and found out that the huge priceless ruby in the horde was actually the phylactery. DM makes an offhand comment about how hard gems are to break, and mutters something about sundering. (It's a group joke about how awful some of the fighter feats are) Funnily enough, my last buy as a warblade was a pair of dragon fang gauntlets; my next action was to tell the DM that I picked up a suitable gem from the horde and was going to improved sunder the ruby. He had to sit there for a moment before he told me to make the rolls. The dracolich died on the spot while booking it for his horde chamber :smallbiggrin:

[CIDE]

Well, you get a recurring villain, that's something to look forward to.

As for the spirit of the thread, I think my favorite is having the party wizard botch a teleport that we were using to drop in on a dracolich; resulting in us dropping into the horde room instead (DM used the lair map he had for botch direction roll) The warlock was a paranoid type and found out that the huge priceless ruby in the horde was actually the phylactery. DM makes an offhand comment about how hard gems are to break, and mutters something about sundering. (It's a group joke about how awful some of the fighter feats are) Funnily enough, my last buy as a warblade was a pair of dragon fang gauntlets; my next action was to tell the DM that I picked up a suitable gem from the horde and was going to improved sunder the ruby. He had to sit there for a moment before he told me to make the rolls. The dracolich died on the spot while booking it for his horde chamber :smallbiggrin:


Your warlock didn't have baleful utterance?

[Azoth]

Had a character outdrink a dragon who was important to the plot of the campaign. While the dragon was passed out the party robbed him blind and took off to let the dragon sleep off the hangover. What was supposed to be a powerful ally turned out to be a very powerful enemy ontop of the already psychotic BBDG.

I still loved the look on his face when the dragon started failing Fort saves against the booze but my Barbarian was still passing them. Thank you Steadfast Determination and its lovely can't fail a fort save on a nat 1, and that Diamond Mind Fort save replacer.

[Immabozo]

Had a character outdrink a dragon who was important to the plot of the campaign. While the dragon was passed out the party robbed him blind and took off to let the dragon sleep off the hangover. What was supposed to be a powerful ally turned out to be a very powerful enemy ontop of the already psychotic BBDG.

I still loved the look on his face when the dragon started failing Fort saves against the booze but my Barbarian was still passing them. Thank you Steadfast Determination and its lovely can't fail a fort save on a nat 1, and that Diamond Mind Fort save replacer.

Reminds me of one DM I had that hand crafted a singular "archenemy" for each character in the party. Mine was an archer, but my AC was so high that he could only hit me with 1 arrow. And then I tried to take the catch arrows feat/shield crystal and it was quickly hit by the DM ban hammer. That character afterward started pelting me with DC 25 fort save-or-suck poison arrows. But steadfast determination and a +30 fort save had me laughing at him when he continuously kept telling me to make the save.

[VoxRationis]

That character afterward started pelting me with DC 25 fort save-or-suck poison arrows. But steadfast determination and a +30 fort save had me laughing at him when he continuously kept telling me to make the save.

Why does poison suck so much? By the time your beefy character is 6th level, you can practically do tetradotoxin by the shot, and I've even seen low-level rogues beat supposedly "lethal" poison DCs, to say nothing of how most creatures' poisons won't kill you, due to affecting things like Strength or Wisdom instead of Constitution, and how poison lethality increases with animal size, which is usually about the opposite of how it works.

[Immabozo]

Why does poison suck so much? By the time your beefy character is 6th level, you can practically do tetradotoxin by the shot, and I've even seen low-level rogues beat supposedly "lethal" poison DCs, to say nothing of how most creatures' poisons won't kill you, due to affecting things like Strength or Wisdom instead of Constitution, and how poison lethality increases with animal size, which is usually about the opposite of how it works.

haha, yeah

[WeeFreeMen]

DM: You are in a Cathedral Cellar. There are many barrels in the area. Suddenly a cloaked man appears with a dagger drawn.
Me: Whats in the barrels?
DM: They are barrels of holy water prepared for <some ceremony of plot importance>
Me: Ok, I use Control Water and a hero point. I want to use all the water in the room and throw it at the man in the cloak.
DM: ..Wait. You what? <MetaGaming: So. Um. The guy in the cloak is an Undead Boss you were supposed to just talk too.>
Entire Party: Party calculates the volume of water and converts it to D6s. It ended up being 200d6 in Holy-Water. I effectively killed off his "Boss" but as a party we agree'd it would be Ok if it was just one of the bosses "Minions" and we could move on and meet the real boss later.

Was pretty funny to see the look in his eyes when we started to tally the damage.
We were also very new to 3.0, it being my 1st game ever (as a Shugenja) and their 2nd game. Fun times.

[Spore]

@ WeeFreeMen

If it were tossed in portions, then yes. But you're applying the holy water far more ineffectual. Maybe be could've lived, yannow :O

[Immabozo]

@ WeeFreeMen

If it were tossed in portions, then yes. But you're applying the holy water far more ineffectual. Maybe be could've lived, yannow :O

200d6 damage is between 200 and 1200 damage with an average damage of 600. If he had anything less than TO con and 20 HD, it is doubtful he could live.

oh yeah, undead dont have con. That just sucks, don't it?

[WeeFreeMen]

It was just funny in the moment I suppose.
Ever since, it has been referred to as the Holy Water Tsunami within our group and never again
has our DM put HolyWater in the same room as an undead BBEG.

[NoACWarrior]

200d6 damage is between 200 and 1200 damage with an average damage of 600. If he had anything less than TO con and 20 HD, it is doubtful he could live.

oh yeah, undead dont have con. That just sucks, don't it?

That assumes a barrel does more damage than just a flask.
If that were the case we could simply put more in everything to make magic water twice as effective.

*look guys i made a 10x potion of cure light wounds with a wide opening so you can chug it*

I tend to look at engulfing rules instead - like being engulfed in acid has a cap of maybe 10d6 damage per round.

[VoxRationis]

That assumes a barrel does more damage than just a flask.
If that were the case we could simply put more in everything to make magic water twice as effective.

*look guys i made a 10x potion of cure light wounds with a wide opening so you can chug it*

I tend to look at engulfing rules instead - like being engulfed in acid has a cap of maybe 10d6 damage per round.

If you drink 10 potions of cure light wounds, you get the effect 10 times. There's no rule talking about how drinking them quickly would change the effect.
That said, getting splashed by 100 barrels of holy won't have much more effect than 10, so long as the same surface area is covered. After a while, all those other barrels stop having any meaning, since their contents aren't reaching the target.

[NoACWarrior]

If you drink 10 potions of cure light wounds, you get the effect 10 times. There's no rule talking about how drinking them quickly would change the effect.
That said, getting splashed by 100 barrels of holy won't have much more effect than 10, so long as the same surface area is covered. After a while, all those other barrels stop having any meaning, since their contents aren't reaching the target.


For the 10 potion thing, I was alluding the the idea that you could drink the entire contents of the 10x bottle in 1 standard action thus breaking the action economy... but since its otherwise not legal I have no other problems with it. It was a horrible example on my part though.

But it would be cool if the artificer found some way to combine multiple potions tiles into one so you break 1 and get the effect of a dozen other effects. Then the Truenamer fixes the potion tile and its like "wow 50 healing for free with +4 on every stat".

While physics don't work as it should in DnD, I'll still stick to engulfing rules with capped damage with the same above reasoning.

[VoxRationis]

I've wondered (and I think someone else on these forums came up with this idea independently) if you could just pour a lot of the same potion into a bottle and rig a beer-can-hat sort of apparatus up so you can just continually heal. I mean, aren't potions only about an ounce or so of liquid? The main justification for why they take a standard action is that you have to get out the vial and uncork it without spilling before drinking it.

[NoACWarrior]

It still takes a standard action to use the potion I'd rule. But given the fact that potions are about an ounce of fluid... it would make sense you could chug more than 1 potion in a round.

[Immabozo]

It still takes a standard action to use the potion I'd rule. But given the fact that potions are about an ounce of fluid... it would make sense you could chug more than 1 potion in a round.

I have thought about proposing a chugging feat, fluffed to be from so much practice in the taverns

[Haldir]

That standard action potion rule is the singular killer of potions being viable for anything but after healing and buffing. And you're still better off with a wand, most times.

[Arael666]

That standard action potion rule is the singular killer of potions being viable for anything but after healing and buffing. And you're still better off with a wand, most times.

My DM homebrewed and "ancient artifact" for this reason, it was an insectoid helmet, with it you could use any potion you posses as a free action.

[Windstorm]

Your warlock didn't have baleful utterance?

No, the warlock was a first time player, and really loved casters so one of the more patient in the group was easing them into it with a warlock. the campaign itself was pretty light on the charop, but had some very fun moments like the one described.

I suppose I should add another from the files of plans my own players have destroyed.

so the first half of this particular campaign was taking place in a megadungeon that was the recently uncovered ruins of an ancient dwarven city. one of the characters was a dwarven engineer (refluffed rogue trapsmith) and had been trying to piece together the stories behind the lost technologies and materials used by the ancients. in one particular part of the complex they came across the main forge, and after quite a lot of research and time the dwarf got high enough DCs to get it working again (ability to make stuff out of this campaign-specific material). unbeknownst to them, a dragon had been using one of the massive ventilation shafts as an entrance to part of the complex that it was now using as a lair, and wasn't terribly happy about having a home full of furnace fumes. After hearing a colossal racket from a section they haven't explored, the party decides to investigate. The bard manages to talk to the dragon through the tunnels before actually entering the same room, resulting in diplomacy with an upset dragon instead of a fight with an angry one. The party wisely asks the dragon why it is so upset, and having realized what is going on, the party proceeds to quite literally sell all of the lost knowledge and exploration/mineral rights to the entire complex to the dragon for a lump sum, along with the map they had made of the area to assist them in further exploitation. They then bought an airship and turned it into a wilderness sandbox adventure. (yes, they had an official deed to the exploration rights from an adventuring guild)

TL;DR never underestimate the ability of players to extract money from your game world in surprising and reasonable ways.

[edit: before anyone asks "why did you let them do that?" I'm a great believer in player agency, and since this was already a semi-sandbox game in a fixed location, if that's what they wanted to do they were able to do it. ]

[VoxRationis]

[edit: before anyone asks "why did you let them do that?" I'm a great believer in player agency, and since this was already a semi-sandbox game in a fixed location, if that's what they wanted to do they were able to do it. ]

More than "Why did you let them do that," I would ask "Why on EARTH would they think that's a great idea?"
The mineral rights to such a place would undoubtedly be worth far, far more than whatever they got from the dragon, in addition to rent they could charge if people start inhabiting it again, and to say nothing of the immense wealth of knowledge and power they could possibly gain from the ancient technologies.

[Immabozo]

More than "Why did you let them do that," I would ask "Why on EARTH would they think that's a great idea?"
The mineral rights to such a place would undoubtedly be worth far, far more than whatever they got from the dragon, in addition to rent they could charge if people start inhabiting it again, and to say nothing of the immense wealth of knowledge and power they could possibly gain from the ancient technologies.

And, depending on the dragon, but some are really just a big pushover. I had a semi-ubercharger 2-shot an adult blue dragon at level 10, was a lot of fun, kinda like I just won the superbowl