Durkon's Mother

[Newwby]

When I was going over strip 947 I noticed some 'speed lines' as Durkon's mother (aka sarge) dashed to save the dwarf that nearly took a fatal tumble over the edge. Obviously (and most likely) it could just be the artist representation of her moving quicker than she would otherwise do but I immediately jumped to 'what kind of class can move quickly when necessary?'

Since the forums wouldn't be the forums without rampant speculation, what class could Durkon's Mother potentially be? Since she apparently has some kind of military background it's likely it would be a martially-oriented class.

[zimmerwald1915]

When I was going over strip 947 I noticed some 'speed lines' as Durkon's mother (aka sarge) dashed to save the dwarf that nearly took a fatal tumble over the edge. Obviously (and most likely) it could just be the artist representation of her moving quicker than she would otherwise do but I immediately jumped to 'what kind of class can move quickly when necessary?'

Since the forums wouldn't be the forums without rampant speculation, what class could Durkon's Mother potentially be? Since she apparently has some kind of military background it's likely it would be a martially-oriented class.
Monks and Barbarians get augmented movement in core, but anybody who can run should be able to run fast enough to get motion lines in an emergency.

[Sunken Valley]

Middle. Her rank is sargent

[Smolder]

Of those 2 options, I think barbarian is more likely, if only because it's usually harder to hit a monk than a barbarian, and she's definitely taken a few hits in her time.

[SnowballMan]

Alternatively, she could have just taken the "Run" feat. There's nothing there to necessarily indicate class.

[Blisstake]

Of those 2 options, I think barbarian is more likely, if only because it's usually harder to hit a monk than a barbarian, and she's definitely taken a few hits in her time.

Barbarians are non-lawful though, and most dwarves seem to be lawful. So far nothing would suggest that Dwarven society isn't lawful in OotS.

Not that it matters really. There's a good chance the Giant doesn't even have a class in mind for her if it's not relevant to the story.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

I agree with Zimmerwald that the lines are showing that she's running quickly, not any class feature or feat, although she could have taken Run.

[The Pilgrim]

I wonder why would someone keep an amptutated limb in a world with Regeneration.

Maybe she does out of guilt of having lost the limb while unsucesfully trying to save someone in a cliffhanger.

[Prospekt]

She was running quickly because someone was about to fall to their death. I don't think you really need to be a specific class or have a specific feat to do such a basic action.

[zimmerwald1915]

I wonder why would someone keep an amptutated limb in a world with Regeneration.

Maybe she does out of guilt of having lost the limb while unsucesfully trying to save someone in a cliffhanger.
Maybe she does it because she murdered her sister who had also lost an arm, and her evil boss makes her keep the wound to remind her of what she did :smallamused:

[AKA_Bait]

Maybe there are very few high level clerics of Thor? Or the price was too high?

[Ghost Nappa]

Maybe there are very few high level clerics of Thor? Or the price was too high?

Or it doesn't get regenerated until later on - if at all.

Take for example, Durkon is first able to do so on say the day before being kicked out of the temple.

[Zmeoaice]

I wonder why would someone keep an amptutated limb in a world with Regeneration.

Maybe she does out of guilt of having lost the limb while unsucesfully trying to save someone in a cliffhanger.

Well, that would just make it more difficult to face someone. Maybe they're really poor and can't afford it.

[Everyl]

In the spirit of wild speculation...

Durkon's mother is a a Psychic Warrior. She uses the Speed of Thought feat (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#speedOfThought) to boost her base movement without having to use a power, which would have made her eyes glow like Laurin's. When she's on duty, she no doubt uses Graft Weapon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/graftWeapon.htm) to fuse a spiked gauntlet to her right shoulder, giving her access to an "arm" and a weapon at the same time. When she's taking care of little Durkon, however, she doesn't like to use that - the power only works with weapons, and caring for young children when your arm is made out of pointy metal bits is probably even harder than doing so with only one arm.

[JustIgnoreMe]

Middle. Her rank is sargent
Sergeants are middle class to you? I think most NCOs would be offended at that. They're proud of working for a living, after all... :smallsmile:

[Codex]

I think NPC class.

[King of Nowhere]

well, i believe any cleric calling himself good (and most dwarves seem good so far) would regenerate a limb for free for someone who can't afford to pay. it only cost a spell slot, and it changes the life of a person.
that is, if there are enough high level clerics around. if there are not, then there are just too many people missing limbs to regenerate even a small fraction of them, and the cleric need to keep his spells for other uses.
soo, durkon's mother missing an arm is a sign that there are few high level clerics among the dwarves. or in the world in general.

[Tiiba]

What kind of class WOULDN'T be able to run when necessary? Bedridden cripple?

[Seerow]

I wonder why would someone keep an amptutated limb in a world with Regeneration.

Maybe she does out of guilt of having lost the limb while unsucesfully trying to save someone in a cliffhanger.

I'm going with "Regenerate" is a 7th level spell, which costs 910gp, to have cast, even if there is a Priest in the area with access to the spell. That's a ton of money for any non-adventurer.

[CaDzilla]

She buried her attachment with her arm in the deep dark part of her soul and never spoke of it again. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0084.html) That seems to be a very monk/dwarf thing to do.

[Trillium]

I'm going with "Regenerate" is a 7th level spell, which costs 910gp, to have cast, even if there is a Priest in the area with access to the spell. That's a ton of money for any non-adventurer.

But it requires no material component, so that cost is merely the cost of a spell slot. I.e. to a non-busy cleric (say, a high priest in a church) its essentially free to cast.

[Tass]

But it requires no material component, so that cost is merely the cost of a spell slot. I.e. to a non-busy cleric (say, a high priest in a church) its essentially free to cast.

But in a city with many people a high level cleric WOULD be busy. There would be tonnes of people begging for heals and regenerations. That is what that price is supposed to reflect. It is the market price to be worth this powerful beings time. Sure good people would be inclined to help for free, but they still have a limited number of spell slots.

[CRtwenty]

This. Also as we've seen most people in the Oots world are low level. There's probably less than half a dozen Dwarves capable of casting 7th level cleric spells at all.

[Quild]

Of those 2 options, I think barbarian is more likely, if only because it's usually harder to hit a monk than a barbarian, and she's definitely taken a few hits in her time.

I really misunderstood the "taken a few hits in her time" in a first place and thought it was quite gratuitous based on what we knew about her.

Then I realized you were talking about her missing arm.

[Keltest]

Is it possible that the arm was severed in such a manner that would prevent regeneration? I know at least some settings take the logical extension of "trolls cant heal burns" as "serious fire damage can never be healed magically." and it wouldn't surprise me if there were weapons that were designed to make the limbs they sever permanently lost.

[CRtwenty]

Is it possible that the arm was severed in such a manner that would prevent regeneration? I know at least some settings take the logical extension of "trolls cant heal burns" as "serious fire damage can never be healed magically." and it wouldn't surprise me if there were weapons that were designed to make the limbs they sever permanently lost.

Yes, but if Durkon's Mom had been attacked by something like that it's unlikely she would have survived it since those kinds of attacks are usually used by very powerful demons and the like. More than likely she lost it in a more mundane way, and since 7th level magic is hard to find and she could survive just as well with a single arm she just learned to live with it.

[Quild]

Is it possible that the arm was severed in such a manner that would prevent regeneration? I know at least some settings take the logical extension of "trolls cant heal burns" as "serious fire damage can never be healed magically." and it wouldn't surprise me if there were weapons that were designed to make the limbs they sever permanently lost.

I've always been surprised by this rule about trolls. In the books about Forgotten Realms, I seem to remember that a troll was able to generate other trolls only by cutting his own fingers and let them regenerate. Yet, burns couldn't be healed. But what prevents a troll from severing the burned part from his body?

About Durkon's mother, we have no clue that there are level 13 clerics in these dwarven mountains.
Also, Durkon's youth is clearly before 3.5 edition, but I have no idea if this does change something for the regenerate spell.

[Keltest]

I've always been surprised by this rule about trolls. In the books about Forgotten Realms, I seem to remember that a troll was able to generate other trolls only by cutting his own fingers and let them regenerate. Yet, burns couldn't be healed. But what prevents a troll from severing the burned part from his body?

perhaps nothing. Maybe its just a case of any troll that had their wounds burned died before they could do that, either to their wounds or other trolls. Or maybe theyre just really dumb. Or maybe they do in fact do that and book protagonists just never sit around trolls long enough to see it happen.

[Everyl]

I've always been surprised by this rule about trolls. In the books about Forgotten Realms, I seem to remember that a troll was able to generate other trolls only by cutting his own fingers and let them regenerate. Yet, burns couldn't be healed. But what prevents a troll from severing the burned part from his body?

Pretty sure this is just a result of extending the mythical hydra's weakness to fire to other regenerating creatures. Sure, trolls are sentient and smart enough to figure out that severing the remains of a cauterized extremity gets rid of the cauterization, but D&D monsters, especially ones that go back to the earliest days of the game (like trolls), are rarely well-thought-out beyond their behavior in a combat encounter with a group of adventurers.

[CRtwenty]

perhaps nothing. Maybe its just a case of any troll that had their wounds burned died before they could do that, either to their wounds or other trolls. Or maybe theyre just really dumb. Or maybe they do in fact do that and book protagonists just never sit around trolls long enough to see it happen.

In 3e rules Trolls can heal damage from fire and acid, they just can't use their regeneration to do it. So they have to heal them like normal wounds at the normal rate or use magical healing.

[Newwby]

Is it possible that the arm was severed in such a manner that would prevent regeneration? I know at least some settings take the logical extension of "trolls cant heal burns" as "serious fire damage can never be healed magically." and it wouldn't surprise me if there were weapons that were designed to make the limbs they sever permanently lost.

Maybe the Sarge is such a bad-ass she doesn't feel the need to seek out a cleric capable of regeneration? As other posters mentioned, high enough level clerics could be fairly rare - although we don't know the level of the high priest of Thor as far as that goes. Is it likely Durkon would have surpassed him in his travels? (Can Durkon cast regenerate? I'm leaning toward yes but I can't remember the stat-thread conclusons)

[Jaxzan Proditor]

(Can Durkon cast regenerate? I'm leaning toward yes but I can't remember the stat-thread conclusons)
Yup. He casts it here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0939.html) (Panel 4).

[henrykazuka]

Just curious, regeneration works on people born without a limb?

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Just curious, regeneration works on people born without a limb?
The spell says "severed body members", so I don't think it works on things never there to begin with. Up to interpretation, I suppose.

[Keltest]

The spell says "severed body members", so I don't think it works on things never there to begin with. Up to interpretation, I suppose.

If I were DMing that, I would require a wish spell or healing artifact to grow a limb if you were born without one, but then a regenerate (or similar effect) could work thereafter. That said, I have no idea why someone would want to have their character born without a limb, or how someone born without one would be allowed into the military as Durkon's mom apparently was.

[warrl]

If I were DMing that, I would require a wish spell or healing artifact to grow a limb if you were born without one, but then a regenerate (or similar effect) could work thereafter. That said, I have no idea why someone would want to have their character born without a limb, or how someone born without one would be allowed into the military as Durkon's mom apparently was.

Universal conscription. That really is universal.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Universal conscription. That really is universal.

Doesn't really seem like the dwarves are at war with anyone. Why would they be conscritping everyone, especially when those people might not be able to fight as well? In fact, I'm not sure how a person missing an arm would be able to join, regardless of whether they were born without it or not. Perhaps, Durkon's mother was an exception.

[Amphiox]

That said, I have no idea why someone would want to have their character born without a limb, or how someone born without one would be allowed into the military as Durkon's mom apparently was.

In the real world a person missing one limb could be excluded from military service on grounds of physical fitness. But that does not necessarily apply to a world that runs on D&D rules. It would seem to me that so long as the character isn't attempting to dual-wield or use a two-handed weapon, the rules don't include any combat penalties for a character born with only one limb. And then when one puts the issue of spellcasting in to the mix, well, a one armed combat wizard will be no less effective on the battlefield than a two armed combat wizard....

So it is entirely conceivable that the Dwarvish military does not have rules about excluding recruits born with only one arm, so long as they meet whatever other physical criteria are required.

[Emperordaniel]

Doesn't really seem like the dwarves are at war with anyone. Why would they be conscripting everyone, especially when those people might not be able to fight as well? In fact, I'm not sure how a person missing an arm would be able to join, regardless of whether they were born without it or not. Perhaps, Durkon's mother was an exception.

They're not at war with anyone. They're at war with something far more sinister (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0150.html):

:durkon: Tha trees!

How are you supposed to get into Thor's halls if you don't die an honorable death in combat, anyways? :smalltongue:

[TerrickTerran]

If I were to guess a class, I'd say Warrior with the Run feat.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

They're not at war with anyone. They're at war with something far more sinister (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0150.html):

:durkon: Tha trees!

How are you supposed to get into Thor's halls if you don't die an honorable death in combat, anyways? :smalltongue:

Of course! How could I forget about them leafy killers?

On a more serious note, having seen Amphiox's post I will change my mind and say that in OOTS world it would be possible for Durkon's mother to serve in the army.

[DeliaP]

Doesn't really seem like the dwarves are at war with anyone. Why would they be conscritping everyone, especially when those people might not be able to fight as well? In fact, I'm not sure how a person missing an arm would be able to join, regardless of whether they were born without it or not. Perhaps, Durkon's mother was an exception.

The Dwarven religion requires you to die in battle or go to hell. So denying someone a place in the military, in Dwarven society, would probably be on a par with saying they deserved to go to hell. Doesn't really matter if you're any good at fighting: you'd still have the right (and the need) to die in battle.

True, the requirement for dieing in battle is a little bit lax (apparently picking a fight with a conifer would count).

Edit: oh, I forgot, you are also allowed to drink yourself to death. When you think about it, dwarven society would have to be permanently warlike and very drunk. And any hostile monsters or humanoids nearby would be subject to constant attacks by suicide squads of elderly and terminally ill drunks.

[Keltest]

The Dwarven religion requires you to die in battle or go to hell. So denying someone a place in the military, in Dwarven society, would probably be on a par with saying they deserved to go to hell. Doesn't really matter if you're any good at fighting: you'd still have the right (and the need) to die in battle.

True, the requirement for dieing in battle is a little bit lax (apparently picking a fight with a conifer would count).

they don't have to die in battle, they just have to die honorably. Living a long and healthy life while serving your people would likely constitute an honorable death, as thor is able to rescue souls by claiming that their deaths by disease only occurred through heroic and honorable actions.

[Everyl]

they don't have to die in battle, they just have to die honorably. Living a long and healthy life while serving your people would likely constitute an honorable death, as thor is able to rescue souls by claiming that their deaths by disease only occurred through heroic and honorable actions.

From the way Durkon talks about it in the last panel of 737 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0737.html), I'd assumed that alcohol-related illnesses were the leading peacetime cause of death among dwarves.

[Caractacus]

When you think about it, dwarven society would have to be permanently warlike and very drunk. And any hostile monsters or humanoids nearby would be subject to constant attacks by suicide squads of elderly and terminally ill drunks.

This I like. This I like a LOT. :smalltongue:

[Jaxzan Proditor]

: oh, I forgot, you are also allowed to drink yourself to death. When you think about it, dwarven society would have to be permanently warlike and very drunk. And any hostile monsters or humanoids nearby would be subject to constant attacks by suicide squads of elderly and terminally ill drunks.
See, no need to join the military. Every just drinks themselves into oblivion! Isn't that a cheery thought?

[DeliaP]

they don't have to die in battle, they just have to die honorably. Living a long and healthy life while serving your people would likely constitute an honorable death, as thor is able to rescue souls by claiming that their deaths by disease only occurred through heroic and honorable actions.

Hmmm... I'd read Panel 10 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0737.html)

"She's keeper o' tha dishonored dwarven dead - those tha dinnae fall in battle, 'specially those dyin' o' sickness"

to mean that not falling in battle was dishonorable. Dying of sickness was just especially dishonorable.

But, you're right, in Panel 11, Durkon then says "Only those that die wit honor. The rest be lumped together an' sent ta Hel". So dying with honor is all that is really required.

Still, the only examples given of what it means to die with honor are:

- dying in battle (although that can include fighting a tree);

- dying as a result of a disease contracted in an honorable battle (and even this is considered a gray area);

- and dying of alcohol related illnesses (and this is to honor the long battle of the liver against the inevitable).