[3.5 Artificer] The Stars Have Aligned!

[DragonSinged]

So I'm pretty sure I've come into the perfect game to play an Artificer, and I'm looking for advice!

Preamble: My friends and I have been throwing around this idea for a D&D game for a few years now about establishing a town, or kobold den or something. Anyways, just a week or two ago I remembered the idea and started talking about it with one of my friends, and she decided to step up to the plate and run it! Huzzah!

So basically the story is that a newly titled Baron with small scattered estates has decided to dispatch our 4 or 5 characters to this tiny logging camp in some woods along the border of our kingdom to turn the camp into a frontier town. He also had some nearby mountains prospected, and they are rich in silver, so we will probably also need to establish a mine there eventually.

Our GM decided that she would draw our "jobs" out of a hat, and then we could build our characters based on that. The 5 jobs were Sheriff, Seneschal, Chief Architect/City Planner, Exchequer, and Chirurgeon.

I got Exchequer! That means that I am in charge of making sure our little budding outpost becomes profitable, and it also means that I'm the primary contact with the Baron.


Once I heard this, I started thinking about what class to play... Druid was out, because of the civilized nature of a job like mine, but Wizard or Cleric seemed likely. I've played a Wizard before, and I like to play new classes whenever I can, so Cleric was ahead.. but wait....

This is going to be a game where we stay in one place for the majority of the game, we will be constructing buildings, and I will be in charge of the money.

Wait a second...

Artificer.

I mention this to the GM, and she encourages me to play it.

YES.

I'm not imagining this, right? This is like the ideal game to play an Artificer in?


There will be issues, such as supply - I'm going to need to bring in magical materials, since there won't be a magic shop.

Well, that is, there won't be one until I build and start running it, which I am going to do.


Man I'm excited.

But I'm looking for advice! I've never played an Artificer before, and this is a strange game, too, where spells that might not normally be ideal choices will become much more attractive!



SO

Details!

We're starting at level 3, with default gold for that level.
I rolled pretty poorly on stats, so this is what I've got, and where I'm thinking about assigning the stats to (If you think I could distribute better, please mention it!)

Str:6 Dex:14 Con:13 Int:14 Wis:12 Cha:14

So nothing over 14, and a 6 in there to boot. 6 Str is gonna be painful, but I shouldn't be in melee combat almost ever (hopefully) and I plan on crafting a Packmate Homonculus in pretty short order, not to mention carrying capacity type items like Heward's Handy Haversack.

She hasn't given us any book restrictions, either, which is pretty dang nice.

I don't want to go super duper mega cheesy because I don't want to push her generosity too far, but if you were in my shoes, what would you plan on doing? What items would you craft, what race would you choose, and also, pretty importantly, what money making schemes would you hatch that you think a reasonable GM would allow you to succeed at?


TL;DR: I'm playing a level 3 Artificer in a game where I get to establish a town: Advice please!

Thank you Playgrounders!

EDIT: I should probably mention now that I don't think flaws and merits and such will be allowed, so I'd like to avoid using those, and I'd also like to avoid using Psionics - they're just not my style, and I don't think they fly with this GM either. :smallwink:

[Dromuthra]

Do you have any limitations on races? If no, I recommend Lesser Mechanatrix for the +2 Con and Int.

[DragonSinged]

Do you have any limitations on races? If no, I recommend Lesser Mechanatrix for the +2 Con and Int.

Ah, I should have mentioned - so far, Race is the only thing she's put a restriction on - she'd like to keep it to Core only - although that Mechanatrix is interesting, hadn't read that one before.
For that reason, though, I was thinking probably human, since I'm thinking I'm going to be both feat and skill-starved anyways... so very skill-starved. Although, I guess any race that gets a bonus to intelligence gets the human free skill point built in, anyways. Hmm. Still, the feat is hard to pass up on.

[kkplx]

With Gray Elf out of the picture, human is probably your first choice.

Few things you can do:

Unseen Crafter Infusion will let you save money on workers, as they work 24 hours a day and days/lvl, just make sure you have knowledge architecture or an appropriate craft skill you can pass down to them.

In general having your unseen crafters work on mundane items like weapons and armor could give you steady income, without having to resort to the jewelry cheese. (usually you sell items for 50% base, crafting them costs 33%, if you make jewelry though, by RAW your product is worth 100% of base price since it's a valuable, that means you can take 10gp, turn it into a 30gp statue, sell it, turn the 30gp into a 90gp statue, etc etc, tanking the entire gold price of the region.)

Make sure you hire an errand boy/non-leadership-cohort to take care of your low carrying capacity.

Also, to conserve money, make heavy use of the spellstoring infusion as soon as you have good UMD. (+6 from levels, +2 from cha, +2 MW tool, +3 from Skill Infusion, +2 from +4 cha infusion, and ASAP an item of UMD+5 for 2.5k) a +19 UMD is already doable without the item, with it you'll be guaranteed to make the check for level 1 spellstoring infusions, letting you cast utility spells like scholar's touch etc.

If you feel like pushing your luck, look at the PHB2 rules for retraining and ask her if you may use those to redistribute stat points either before the game start or later in the game.

Look in the Magical Artisan, Exceptional and Legendary Artisan feats, and consider taking most of them (except the time one) - especially exceptional artisan with its 25% reduction on EVERYTHING is amazing (this means 25% cost to make mundane items and 37.5% cost for magical stuff, instead of 33/50%). Especially Magical Artisan (Wondrous Items) at level 3 is amazing.

[DragonSinged]

Well I feel like since this will likely be a game with far less combat than normal (we will be gaining XP through non-combat means, though - roleplaying awards and such) Homonculi would be far less dangerous to have around, so as soon as we hit level 4 I'll probably be making a packmate (partly because I think it sounds adorable) to carry stuff for me - also will probably have it run around the magic shop organizing the shelves and such. Then there's Dedicated Wrights to do crafting - Unseen Crafter does seem like a good spell, but I was thinking of letting the Chief Architect have domain over that one... Although, I didn't realize that it was an infusion. Good lord I have so much research to do. :smalleek:

[Lightlawbliss]

what is the dm's opinion on custom magic items?

a magical supply of water at the top of a mountain can be very beneficial for running things like a ton of water wheels.

a create food and water trap stuck in the tavern can help keep the town alive during bad times, and provide some free profit.

[kkplx]

Well I feel like since this will likely be a game with far less combat than normal (we will be gaining XP through non-combat means, though - roleplaying awards and such) Homonculi would be far less dangerous to have around, so as soon as we hit level 4 I'll probably be making a packmate (partly because I think it sounds adorable) to carry stuff for me - also will probably have it run around the magic shop organizing the shelves and such. Then there's Dedicated Wrights to do crafting - Unseen Crafter does seem like a good spell, but I was thinking of letting the Chief Architect have domain over that one... Although, I didn't realize that it was an infusion. Good lord I have so much research to do. :smalleek:

Picked Artificer as my first class in D&D. To date I have at least 100 hours of research invested into it. Probably the calss with the most bookkeeping and research involved in existence.

Welcome to the club :P

[nobodez]

what is the dm's opinion on custom magic items?

a magical supply of water at the top of a mountain can be very beneficial for running things like a ton of water wheels.

a create food and water trap stuck in the tavern can help keep the town alive during bad times, and provide some free profit.

Yes, beneficial traps are going to be your bread and butter as the Exchequer of the town.

[Shining Wrath]

As soon as possible, make yourself a Lyre of Building (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm). $13k but once a week you can construct a building just by strumming. You need a performance check to play beyond the first hour, but that first hour will produce effort equal to 100 humans working for 6 days.

With your low strength you'll want to be able to craft some low-weight armor. And you will want to engage the enemy at a distance; flight items plus wands.

[DragonSinged]

I think that the DM will be willing to work with custom magic items within reason. For instance, I think a custom item of UMD will probably be fine.

Beneficial magic traps? I need to start putting together a list here - Ok, list started.
Is there a good guide for me to read about building traps? There must be. I've read the various Artificer's guides, at least the ones I've been able to find, but the class just encompasses so much that the guides can't cover it all.


Yes, beneficial traps are going to be your bread and butter as the Exchequer of the town.

Aside from create food and water, what other traps would you think would be good ideas?


As soon as possible, make yourself a Lyre of Building (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm). $13k but once a week you can construct a building just by strumming. You need a performance check to play beyond the first hour, but that first hour will produce effort equal to 100 humans working for 6 days.

Yeah, I've read about the Lyre of Building before, and that's one that sets off my cheese alarm for this particular game - while the GM will let me get away with a decent amount, (and I realize this might sound weird) anything that makes achieving our specific objectives here too easy will probably get vetoed, and I'd like to avoid bringing some of those up in the first place - This GM and I have butted heads in the past, and in the interest of keeping the game going smoothly I want to avoid pushing her buttons whenever possible.


What about the potential Silver Mine? Is there anything in particular you would do to get that up and running? What about putting the Silver to better use than just selling the ore?

I'm thinking I want to take both improved homonculus and also Craft Construct feats, since golems seem pretty ideal for this type of game, maybe even doing the heavy lifting at the mine - Does anyone have a build up to, say, level 10 that they would suggest following?

Thanks for all the input so far, lots to think about for me here. :smallsmile:

[Lightlawbliss]

well, something of stone shape would make mining easier.
I would recommend that you go, in game, to the mountain in question and see what is there. Things like what kind of rock you have, if it is just a bunch of one kind of rock or many layers of different rock/crystal/exc, what kind of silver your have (pure silver is unlikely, you probably have a compound that has silver in it) so you don't do something stupid like make the silver blow itself up and so you can get as much money as possible from your mine, and important features like a cliff or deep crack.

[Shining Wrath]

You'll make more money if you refine the ore in town and export ingots rather than ore. But that will take some effort to set up; smelting is non-trivial.

Things that will help the miners might include the often-mocked Floating Disk spell built into an item so it can be recast as needed. You probably don't want to trust them with a Handy Haversack worth several year's wages to a miner, but something that lets them create floating disks to move rocks around is a little different.

Masterwork equipment will let them work faster, but increase your capital expenditure.

You may want to watch for embezzlement or theft at the mine; scrying equipment.

[nobodez]

Aside from create food and water, what other traps would you think would be good ideas?


Well, look at the 0, 1st, and 2nd level spells.

Purify Food and Drink
Cure Minor Wounds
Create Water
Amanuensis
Mending

Bless Water
Endure Elements
Delay Disease
Healthful Rest
Lesser Vigor
Animate Wood

Lesser Restoration
Soften Earth and Stone
Wood Shape
Stabilize
Earthfast
Train Animal

And that's just the PHB and SpC.

[DragonSinged]

You'll make more money if you refine the ore in town and export ingots rather than ore. But that will take some effort to set up; smelting is non-trivial.

Things that will help the miners might include the often-mocked Floating Disk spell built into an item so it can be recast as needed. You probably don't want to trust them with a Handy Haversack worth several year's wages to a miner, but something that lets them create floating disks to move rocks around is a little different.

Masterwork equipment will let them work faster, but increase your capital expenditure.

You may want to watch for embezzlement or theft at the mine; scrying equipment.

Well, I am going to be playing an artificer, after all. I think setting up a refinery should be doable, and as far as Masterwork equipment increasing my expenditure, it shouldn't be too bad if I'm making it myself (or if my Dedicated Wrights are making them for me).
I had already discussed Tenser's Floating Disk with my friend who will be playing the Architect-Wizard, actually. Are there any other less-frequently used spells that you think might be more useful in a game like this?

What about any particularly high-valued craftable goods? Made of silver, or wood?

Hm, what about ways to bring in residents (aside from Leadership or other build-based options like that)?

As we expand the town, we'll need to draw in people to live and work there - we're starting out with only somewhere around 20 villagers I believe.

[Bugworlds]

Artificers are the best. The most research, paperwork, and general knowledge intensive; therefore the best. Have fun, every time you think you've researched enough you'll realize you missed something :P

My Artificer is a dwarf for the +2 with crafting stone or metal. I've also taken a dip into Cleric, with the domain of artifice for +4 on all crafting checks. A dwarf could be useful for mining although it may not be the most optimized race for what you're looking for.

The Leadership feat allows you to get cohorts of your level minus two, and you must be level six to take this feat. If you must be level six for this feat, you can get an Artificer 4 who can create magic items as a cohort. The Undead Leadership allows you to get stronger cohorts but they're undead; which would be great for a mining operation for they could work all day and night (little to no pay, no food, limited questioning of orders, pretty scary guards...).
Might want to read: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?335997-Undead-Mining-Operation

A higher-level cohorts who may be nice to have around may be a cleric with the domains of Artifice and Creation for Conjuration (Creation) spells with +3 CL.
http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Artifice_Domain
http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Creation_Domain

You'll want to look into spells which allow the creation of material if you're limited for resources. http://dndtools.eu/spells/sub-schools/creation/ may be a good start, with some narrowing down of course. Minor Creation is always a great help for any crafting.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/minorCreation.htm

If you're looking to make money from crafting you get the best profit (per investment, not considering time) from Poison. Materials to craft poison cost 1/6th (if common) of the finished products price. Are there any potential sources of poisonous plants, fungus, etc, around? Book of Vile Darkens (3.0), Heroes of Horror, Complete Adventurer, and Drow of the Underdark (THE CALLING!! <3) all have poison stuff in them. The 'Lace and Arcinic' guide to poison is also wonderful, and is somewhere on this forum.

If you're producing silver the first thing that comes to mind is anti-vampire weapons. Clearly your main export should be vampire slaying gear. I hope vampires are a problem near by.

[Lightlawbliss]

on smelting: fabricate traps. now you just need to know everything of value in the ore and make the wording versatile enough to handle changing amounts.

[Shining Wrath]

Well, I am going to be playing an artificer, after all. I think setting up a refinery should be doable, and as far as Masterwork equipment increasing my expenditure, it shouldn't be too bad if I'm making it myself (or if my Dedicated Wrights are making them for me).
I had already discussed Tenser's Floating Disk with my friend who will be playing the Architect-Wizard, actually. Are there any other less-frequently used spells that you think might be more useful in a game like this?

What about any particularly high-valued craftable goods? Made of silver, or wood?

Hm, what about ways to bring in residents (aside from Leadership or other build-based options like that)?

As we expand the town, we'll need to draw in people to live and work there - we're starting out with only somewhere around 20 villagers I believe.

I don't know how your DM is handling religion, but some good artists turning silver into ornate Holy Symbols and icons of Pelor and what have you could be a profit source - and bring pilgrims to your town, giving you another revenue stream as they stay at the inn et cetera.

People will move to your town as you provide jobs. Jobs will come as you mine, smelt, and craft items from silver. Don't forget the idea of trade; money spent making certain the road to your village is of good quality and relatively free of bandits might pay off. What's on the other side of the border? If there's a nation worth trading with over there, you can make quite a bit of money just being a safe place for a caravan to stop as they go from Baron's Keep to Town On Other Side of Border.

So you've got miners, lumberjacks, smelters, sawmill workers, and some artists crafting things from silver. And an inn. As the forests are cleared, give the land away for free to anyone who will live there and grow food; now you've got farmers. Then try to encourage tourism and trade to keep the inn full.

From there, think of how you can diversify your economy. You're the artificer; you've got wrights; start making minor magical items. People will travel a fair distance to purchase a +1 Keen longsword if artificers are relatively rare in this world. You could specialize in silvered weapons.

[Telonius]

Kobolds in the area, mining community, a set list of important roles -

I hope it's not too much fun (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2012:Losing). :smallbiggrin:


Okay, Money Making Schemes. This will require collaboration with your Chief Architect, but the first thing you should have in any frontier town is a local saloon and/or house of ill repute. (It may eventually grow into a casino). It serves as a focal point for gatherings, commerce, and quest distribution. Have a Bard or two on hand to liven things up.

After your house of ill-repute is established, contact a more settled town's clergy. Suggest that your city is neck-deep in sin, and that some evangelism is needed. Offer to escort any missionaries at a "reasonable" price. The carpenters will charge a "reasonable" wage to build the new chapel.

Find some edible plant that's native to the area and fairly rare elsewhere; have a brewer make a specially-brewed drink out of it, and start exporting.

For the miners, I'd go with the "Company Store" route. Print up a local currency, not accepted elsewhere, and use it to pay the miners. The local shop will accept the currency. You pocket the profits. (And since you'll be using Fabricate to create the products you sell there, it'll be pretty profitable).

[DragonSinged]

There are some awesome replies here, thank you! I'm sorry I haven't replied slightly sooner, I've been working 70 hour weeks. :smalleek:

@ Bugworlds
Well, I'm planning on avoiding the Leadership feat, and instead just bringing people in through roleplaying. That reminds me, though, I need to look up the Item Familiar feat, I keep hearing about it.
Thank you for the material creation links! I will definitely be browsing through those.
Yeah, with the Silver, vampires were one of the first things that came to mind for me, as well. Personally, I hope vampires aren't a problem near by - at least not too near by.


@ Shining Wrath

We're using the default Core pantheon of gods, I know that. Our party at this point sounds like it's going to be myself, a Justiciar as the Sheriff, a Factotum as the Chief Architect, an Oracle (converted from Pathfinder) as our Chirurgeon, and a possible unknown 5th as our Seneschal/Judge/Lawmaker.

That said, we don't have any Clerics or particularly religious characters in our party, so bringing in a Cleric or Adept from out of town is probably a good idea pretty early on - the Oracle and I can handle healing, for sure, but maybe not the villagers religious needs.

Also, road maintenance - good point! I'll make sure the Architect keeps that in mind, also.
I don't know how well the GM would let a "local currency" fly, though, especially considering we still report to the Baron, who is part of the nobility in our kingdom - creating a separate currency within our kingdom might not go over too well.


I'll do some searching of my own, but does anyone have any links handy to particularly good trap-making guides? Especially any that include beneficial traps, or are tailored to Artificers. :smallsmile:


Also, my GM has Okayed custom magic items, such as Gloves of UMD - with that in mind, and assuming that I'm able to use up my 1st and 2nd level craft reserves during character creation (but no XP spent beyond that), and also assuming that I plan on taking particular advantage of constructs and homonculi (so Craft Construct and Improved Homonculus are probably in at some point in the build).... How would you build this character?
Starting gear for level 3?

I'm particularly concerned about running out of skill points, because I feel like I'm going to need ranks in EVERYTHING. :smallsigh:

Thank you again for the awesome replies!

[Bugworlds]

I'll do some searching of my own, but does anyone have any links handy to particularly good trap-making guides? Especially any that include beneficial traps, or are tailored to Artificers. :smallsmile:

Also, my GM has Okayed custom magic items, such as Gloves of UMD - with that in mind, and assuming that I'm able to use up my 1st and 2nd level craft reserves during character creation (but no XP spent beyond that), and also assuming that I plan on taking particular advantage of constructs and homonculi (so Craft Construct and Improved Homonculus are probably in at some point in the build).... How would you build this character?
Starting gear for level 3?

I'm particularly concerned about running out of skill points, because I feel like I'm going to need ranks in EVERYTHING. :smallsigh:

For traps I'd take a look at DMG first. There's plenty of information about types of traps and how to calculate DC's 'n such with your own creations. Using traps as mechanisms is a decent exploit advantage to strategy. Think proximity trigger, automatic reset, magic. Great way to buff undead is put some negative energy traps around them. Same can be done with the living and positive energy, or those lovely +2 to ability spells.

For some ideas about trap making there is the Combat Trapsmith prestige class in Complete Scoundrel, page 34. I don't know if that will be a good resource but the same book has Surprise Weapons. Essentially weapons which have been put on other weapons. I'm sure some of these could be adapted for traps.

Artificers have quite the affinity for making things and sticking magic on them. I think you'd like the Create Trap spell (http://dndtools.eu/spells/races-of-the-dragon--83/create-trap--3076/) or one of the nineteen other results searching on DnD Tools turned up for magic and traps. (http://dndtools.eu/spells/?name=trap&range=&spell_resistance=&area=&duration=&saving_throw=&casting_time=&school__slug=&sub_school__slug=&descriptors__slug=&verbal_component=1&somatic_component=1&material_component=1&arcane_focus_component=1&divine_focus_component=1&xp_component=1&rulebook__slug=&description=&class_levels__slug=&domain_levels__slug=&_filter=Filter)

For starting gear think about what you'll need. Make a huge list if you wish, but then use the list to pick out what you'll not be able to get. Many simple things can be created, bought, found, etc. Good luck finding a nice pair of shoes in the wilderness. Having a couple scrolls to kickstart everything would be helpful but they're pricey. Armour is always nice to have about just to be careful. I always make sure I have a winter blanket with me. Those things save lives.

As for skills, don't worry too much. I think you'll be able to improve where you lack the skill, or get someone else to do it. Remember you're going to be in a party, and while the others are not there to serve you they can help. Talk with them and see what skills they're looking to focus on. Look into where you expect to go with the game and see what you'll need to max, as well as what high DC's you'll run into. That will direct you to where you need to go a bit. In the case you're going to be making constructs, I bet they can do some of the work for you. Something which will have a low DC, and remember you can always throw a magic item on them to help if needed. Keep in mind the rules for constructs doing things which need skills and checks for. I'm not too familiar with them.

[DragonSinged]

Re: Worrying about skills:
Well this isn't going to exactly be a typical party or typical game. The Factotum is going to have a lot of skills, it's true, but I'm still going to want Appraise, UMD, & Spellcraft maxed out, with ranks in...
Craft: Sculpting, Pottery, Armorsmithing, Weaponsmithing, Metalworking... What else.. Whatever I'll need for Alchemy and trapmaking... :smalleek:
I'm basically giving up on having any ranks in spot, search, listen, anything physical (beyond crafting).

Maybe I'm getting greedy, I just want this character to be able to craft darn-near everything. :smallbiggrin:

I recognize that most of these won't need to be maxed out, but a few will - I'm just not sure how I'm going to get all the skill points I need with only a 14 in Int, without blowing feats on them.

[Ellowryn]

Not exactly cheese, or maybe a little beyond how you wanted to your character to be, but look to get Jack of All Trades. Gives you an effective 1/2 rank in all skills, that way you can focus your skill points in the crafting skills you know your going need like armor or architecture instead of spread across 20+ skills.

[Gavinfoxx]

You really, really, really need to read my handbook.

Note a lot of these things can start at level 3...

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1aG4P3dU6WP3pq8mW9l1qztFeNfqQHyI22oJe09i8KWw/edit

You actually don't need many skill ranks other than Knowledge Arcana, Spellcraft, and UMD.

This is because you, being an artificer, can just use magic to bump your skill in anything up significantly. There are a LOT of skill enhancing spells, and it is very, very cheap and easy to get an item that you can use to cast several of them before you (presumably) take 10 on whatever skill you need to do. Remember Magecraft, 20 int (get an item of +2 intelligence) and take 10 nets you a DC 20 check on every single craft skill ever, provided you only do one type of crafting in a day.

And remember. MOST crafting DC's that you will need to hit are under 20!

Take a very, very close look at the Take 10 rules...

Also make sure to read the linked handbook about the airship stuff as well, and some of the other links in that handbook; most of the wondrous architecture is really expensive, so you want to figure out how to make the most amount of change with the minimum gold cost outlay...

[Jeff the Green]

[QUOTE=kkplx;17233240]With Gray Elf out of the picture, human is probably your first choice.[QUOTE]

While human is a good choice, grey elf is core (MM). Tiefling and fire elf are also options, though the latter only if SRD = core, and those have a Charisma penalty.

Human, aside from the bonus feat, is also good because it qualifies for Mercantile Background (sell at 75% of price instead of 50% and 1/week buy an item at 75%).

For feats, my first order of business is Extraordinary Artisan, then Magical Artisan. Because EA (and its brothers Legendary Artisan and Exceptional Artisan) is an feat, you can key MA off of it for a 62.5% discount on gold and 50% off XP. This is perhaps a bit cheesy, though, so don't if you're worried about that.

If you're going to be a mining town, there [I]will be prostitutes. Don't try to evade the inevitable, and open your own brothel with resetting traps of distilled joy so you can use ambrosia to supplement your XP.

In addition to the Lyre of Building, undead make good beasts of burden and workers. A zombie ox powers a mill 24/7 with no need for fodder, a human zombie can carry 30% more and perform basic task (hew this stone, carry these boulders) 3x as fast thanks to not needing rest. To avoid turning off potential villagers, make them each a Hat of Disguise and make them look like constructs; it's cheaper than making actual constructs.

If you're worried about raiders, get a bunch of Enveloping Pits (not having Consecrate Relic, you won't be able to make them yourself, but they're cheap anyway). Outfit each with a ladder and chairs and a Bottle of Air. They can be closed from inside and so are essentially an invisible storm shelter.

Check out Stronghold Builder's Guide. There are rules for wondrous architecture, which is very useful for any items you don't plan on needing to be portable as you get a discount.

[Gavinfoxx]

For the Lyre of Building, you are going to want to make a (mm style) homunculus with the artist feat and skill focus perform string and maxed cross class ranks in perform string and such so it can play the lyre 24/7 with a take 10 to get a LOT of labor done.

And you are going to want to do the at least a few of other tricks in my handbook.

You don't know what the GM's threshold for cheese is unless you ask -- so ask!

And you actually want to put scaffolding with ladders in the enveloping pits. After all, each is a 5 story building, treat them like such.

Also, what does the town mine? Is it something that can be gotten with a spell, easily, like iron? Or is it something actually useful and expensive, like adamantine, mithral, gold, platinum or something?

[Rubik]

Focus on pulling magic users of all stripes in. Mundanes are nigh useless, and are a liability in any kind of confrontation with outside forces (except initiators). If you can build a wizard's college, a psionics enclave, a druid's grove, a network of allied [Good] churches, and a monastery that focuses on initiators, you'll be far better than you would be if you had to deal with fighters, monks, and other NPC classes (which fighters and monks are, regardless of what the PHB says).

[Gavinfoxx]

Focus on pulling magic users of all stripes in. Mundanes are nigh useless, and are a liability in any kind of confrontation with outside forces (except initiators). If you can build a wizard's college, a psionics enclave, a druid's grove, a network of allied [Good] churches, and a monastery that focuses on initiators, you'll be far better than you would be if you had to deal with fighters, monks, and other NPC classes (which fighters and monks are, regardless of what the PHB says).

This. Even Adepts (try to go for Religious Adepts at least) are more generally useful than Fighters and Monks and stuff. Make sure the GM knows about the widest possible types of classes that you want to encourage to live in your area.


See: http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=8740.0
Basically consider Tier 5 & 6 as 'npc-like classes' and 3, 2, 1, and possibly 4 as the sorts of classes you want to encourage to be part of your society. Even if the GM doesn't think that these classes are as powerful as you, just try to get permission to write up generic examples of average individuals of a particular level, once you have an idea that there are many (say), level 3 Wizards in your civilization... he might get an awakening of what these sorts of characters can do!

Hell, in order to make a plausible soldier, guard, and watchman at level 1, neither Warrior nor Fighter is useful. I had to use Ranger with SIX alternative class features in order to get a decent soldier/guard/watchman that could do the basic functions necessary of such a person...

[Rubik]

Also, work on leveling up your guardsmen (or use Planar Bound minions of Good alignment). Any frontier settlement is ripe for marauding, and you definitely don't want that. Pit teams of NPCs (and/or minions) against each other in live-combat situations, with a trap of Revivify to revive them if they die, and a trap of Cure Minor Wounds to heal them to full after each altercation. Mix the groups each time so everyone has a decent chance of gaining XP during the training sessions, so you don't end up with one higher level group plateauing, and everyone else is lower level and unable to compete. Level-grind them as much as possible, and have your party join them daily so you don't get left behind in a combat scenario.

Oh, and start teaching artificers to craft for you ASAP.

[thethird]

Look in the Magical Artisan, Exceptional and Legendary Artisan feats, and consider taking most of them (except the time one) - especially exceptional artisan with its 25% reduction on EVERYTHING is amazing (this means 25% cost to make mundane items and 37.5% cost for magical stuff, instead of 33/50%). Especially Magical Artisan (Wondrous Items) at level 3 is amazing.

The smart thing is to do Magical Artisan (Extraordinary Artisan) so magical artisan affects items that you craft with extraordinary artisan (i.e. all of them). If you feel slightly cheesy take magical artisan (legendary artisan) too, because the bonus from both magical artisan would stack.

[Rubik]

The smart thing is to do Magical Artisan (Extraordinary Artisan) so magical artisan affects items that you craft with extraordinary artisan (i.e. all of them). If you feel slightly cheesy take magical artisan (legendary artisan) too, because the bonus from both magical artisan would stack.If you have enough feats available, use Magical Artisan on ALL of your item creation feats. Another use for that floating Chameleon feat (and for your Alter Self -> human bonus feat, if you can make Alter Self last long enough).

[Jeff the Green]

Look in the Magical Artisan, Exceptional and Legendary Artisan feats, and consider taking most of them (except the time one) - especially exceptional artisan with its 25% reduction on EVERYTHING is amazing (this means 25% cost to make mundane items and 37.5% cost for magical stuff, instead of 33/50%). Especially Magical Artisan (Wondrous Items) at level 3 is amazing.

I don't think that works. Extraordinary Artisan reduces the cost in GP of raw materials, but XP cost is determined by price, not cost.

[SliceandDiceKid]

Didn't read everyone's posts yet, but reduce the cost to create by restricting to a skill and alignment.

Canith wand adept would be crazy, but straight arti is better to save feats and wands. Human artificer=all the metamagic! If you rely heavily on wands and scrolls, you're gonna be golden.

Extend, persist, maximize, chain, and energy substitution.

Persist haste on the town guards for 1 charge and a lvl 3 infusion. Place ever smoking bottles at each entrance to the town, or in a watchtower. When people try to raid your village, pop the top and tell em good luck finding their way in. Also, build it on a hillside or hilltop. Think strategically, even if this isn't a military compound, you want every advantage, should evil seek to ruin you.

Build extra homes! Always see it like a development. Make it appealing to settlers and families. A tavern, schoolhouse, and town hall used for community events. Watch the morale of your citizens!

I'll be back with more ideas after work. This sounds like fun. A friend and I were gonna open a magic shop in a campaign.

Also, what's your alignment? Any personality quirks or tendencies planned yet!

[DragonSinged]

Not exactly cheese, or maybe a little beyond how you wanted to your character to be, but look to get Jack of All Trades. Gives you an effective 1/2 rank in all skills, that way you can focus your skill points in the crafting skills you know your going need like armor or architecture instead of spread across 20+ skills.

Ooh, I'd forgotten about Jack of All Trades, that could be a handy one for all those skills I was thinking of only putting one or two ranks in so that they just weren't untrained. Thank you, I'll need to go re-read that one!




Human, aside from the bonus feat, is also good because it qualifies for Mercantile Background (sell at 75% of price instead of 50% and 1/week buy an item at 75%).

...

If you're going to be a mining town, there will be prostitutes. Don't try to evade the inevitable, and open your own brothel with resetting traps of distilled joy so you can use ambrosia to supplement your XP.

In addition to the Lyre of Building, undead make good beasts of burden and workers. A zombie ox powers a mill 24/7 with no need for fodder, a human zombie can carry 30% more and perform basic task (hew this stone, carry these boulders) 3x as fast thanks to not needing rest. To avoid turning off potential villagers, make them each a Hat of Disguise and make them look like constructs; it's cheaper than making actual constructs.

If you're worried about raiders, get a bunch of Enveloping Pits (not having Consecrate Relic, you won't be able to make them yourself, but they're cheap anyway). Outfit each with a ladder and chairs and a Bottle of Air. They can be closed from inside and so are essentially an invisible storm shelter.

Check out Stronghold Builder's Guide. There are rules for wondrous architecture, which is very useful for any items you don't plan on needing to be portable as you get a discount.
Ahh, Distilled Joy in the Brothels, that's a good way to use that spell without getting into creepy, like.. human-soul harvesting addiction-trap territory.
I don't think I'm going to stray into undead-using territory. It's not my style, and seems like asking for trouble anyways. Undead in close proximity to villagers seems like bad times.
I'll definitely be checking out the Stronghold Builders guide, and I've already suggested it to the Chief Architect. :smallsmile:




For the Lyre of Building, you are going to want to make a (mm style) homunculus with the artist feat and skill focus perform string and maxed cross class ranks in perform string and such so it can play the lyre 24/7 with a take 10 to get a LOT of labor done.

And you are going to want to do the at least a few of other tricks in my handbook.

You don't know what the GM's threshold for cheese is unless you ask -- so ask!

And you actually want to put scaffolding with ladders in the enveloping pits. After all, each is a 5 story building, treat them like such.

Also, what does the town mine? Is it something that can be gotten with a spell, easily, like iron? Or is it something actually useful and expensive, like adamantine, mithral, gold, platinum or something?
I'm definitely checking out your handbook, thank you for that. Regarding the Lyre of Building:

Yeah, I've read about the Lyre of Building before, and that's one that sets off my cheese alarm for this particular game - while the GM will let me get away with a decent amount, (and I realize this might sound weird) anything that makes achieving our specific objectives here too easy will probably get vetoed, and I'd like to avoid bringing some of those up in the first place - This GM and I have butted heads in the past, and in the interest of keeping the game going smoothly I want to avoid pushing her buttons whenever possible.
And I do have a pretty good idea of what this GM's threshold for cheese is, as I have played with her before. I'll mention the Lyre of Building to the Architect, in case he wants to request it, but I'm not going to make it, otherwise.
As far as what the town mines:

So basically the story is that a newly titled Baron with small scattered estates has decided to dispatch our 4 or 5 characters to this tiny logging camp in some woods along the border of our kingdom to turn the camp into a frontier town. He also had some nearby mountains prospected, and they are rich in silver, so we will probably also need to establish a mine there eventually.
That's about the extent of my knowledge of the mining surveys. If you have any ideas for uses for silver, I'd love to hear them!


Also, work on leveling up your guardsmen (or use Planar Bound minions of Good alignment). Any frontier settlement is ripe for marauding, and you definitely don't want that. Pit teams of NPCs (and/or minions) against each other in live-combat situations, with a trap of Revivify to revive them if they die, and a trap of Cure Minor Wounds to heal them to full after each altercation. Mix the groups each time so everyone has a decent chance of gaining XP during the training sessions, so you don't end up with one higher level group plateauing, and everyone else is lower level and unable to compete. Level-grind them as much as possible, and have your party join them daily so you don't get left behind in a combat scenario.

Oh, and start teaching artificers to craft for you ASAP.
Ooh, NPC training camps is a pretty good idea, I'll make sure to pass that along to the Sheriff, thank you!


Didn't read everyone's posts yet, but reduce the cost to create by restricting to a skill and alignment.

Canith wand adept would be crazy, but straight arti is better to save feats and wands. Human artificer=all the metamagic! If you rely heavily on wands and scrolls, you're gonna be golden.

Extend, persist, maximize, chain, and energy substitution.

Persist haste on the town guards for 1 charge and a lvl 3 infusion. Place ever smoking bottles at each entrance to the town, or in a watchtower. When people try to raid your village, pop the top and tell em good luck finding their way in. Also, build it on a hillside or hilltop. Think strategically, even if this isn't a military compound, you want every advantage, should evil seek to ruin you.

Build extra homes! Always see it like a development. Make it appealing to settlers and families. A tavern, schoolhouse, and town hall used for community events. Watch the morale of your citizens!

I'll be back with more ideas after work. This sounds like fun. A friend and I were gonna open a magic shop in a campaign.

Also, what's your alignment? Any personality quirks or tendencies planned yet!
I think I'm gonna stick with straight Artificer, but I don't know that I'll have the feats available for that much metamagic, especially since I want to take both craft construct and improved homonculus. I'll definitely check out the ever smoking bottles, thanks for the suggestion! As far as building extra homes, that'll be the Chief Architect's territory.
As far as Alignment, I was thinking Lawful Neutral, probably. Personality quirks - I was picturing an intellectual, reserved character, who gets somewhat more emotional while crafting. Otherwise, aspects of his personality will be expressed through his homonculi - the Packmate will run around the shop energetically, rearranging the shelves, being a bit OCD. The Expeditious Messenger will be a bit snooty when relaying messages, things like that. :smallsmile:

[Rubik]

Be careful when looking through the Stronghold Builder's Guide. Always remember that 99% of the ludicrously expensive options can be implemented for free (or nearly so) with proper use of spells (Fabricate, summonses, and called critters, especially).

Paying millions of gp for basic spellcasting is for NPCs, not T1 casters.

[Gavinfoxx]

Be careful when looking through the Stronghold Builder's Guide. Always remember that 99% of the ludicrously expensive options can be implemented for free (or nearly so) with proper use of spells (Fabricate, summonses, and called critters, especially).

Paying millions of gp for basic spellcasting is for NPCs, not T1 casters.

This, yea. That's why I made my guide -- and the ones linked to it. You want to use SBG to do the minimum possible that can't generally be done in any other way, and otherwise find more efficient ways to do most of the things in there.

So which parts of my guide do you think you can get away with?

[DragonSinged]

@ Gavinfoxx

Well I don't think I'm going to try to push the game into the sort of high-tech direction your guide enables, but there are a lot of neat spells in there that I haven't seen before that I might try to use - what kind of impossible triggers would you use for a floating city using "Stone Trap"? I guess this spell would only enable a stationary city, though, wouldn't it? Still, could be useful for other things, like hidden archer platforms that are only accessible by ladder or flight.

There are a lot of super useful links in there, too. So much reading to do...

So yeah, I'm still trying to nail down my starting build/equipment for level 3, does anyone have any suggestions for that?

Also, as an aside, our Sheriff is planning on eventually PrC-ing into "Justiciar" from CW, to get that "bring 'em back alive" feel, but she's having trouble figuring out what class(es) to take leading up to that, hopefully entering as early as possible. Any suggestions? She'll be playing a dwarf.

Thank you again for the awesome replies!

[Gavinfoxx]

You don't reaaalllyyyy need to do the Fighter or Justicar thing. Really... it's pretty weak. Just get a Merciful weapon and go for any high damage charge build.

Are you going to work on setting up stables for flying mounts? Maybe via summoned, released but kept around, and then trained normally Dire Bat ex-animal companions, set up a colony of them? That's always super useful. The cheapest flying mount is one of the dinosaurs in Eberron Campaign Setting, if you can train a bunch of those, that can be super useful.

Point her towards this:

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?127026-3-X-Person-Man-s-Guide-to-Melee-Combos


For the Stone Trap, I would use things like things that are mathematically or geometrically impossible, a variety of math problems that can never be true, and set them so that the traps further only check that in their immediate vicinity. That sort of thing.

[Jeff the Green]

You don't reaaalllyyyy need to do the Fighter or Justicar thing. Really... it's pretty weak. Just get a Merciful weapon and go for any high damage charge build.


If you really feel the need to spend more than WBL on it, there's also a feat in BoED.

Which is really a shame, because Justicar has a special place near my heart. Hogtie is just cool (though really you'd think that given the name and origin of the technique it'd include quadrupeds).

[DragonSinged]

Yes, I'm aware that there are other, better ways to do what she wants to do, and to do most of what the Justiciar's class features can do, but she likes the sound of the PrC, and is set on taking it for roleplay reasons as much as any of the class features.
I found some relevant reading to show her, though, and I'll probably make her some "Gloves of Object Reading" early on to give her an edge at crime scenes. Being an Artificer is going to be fun. :smallbiggrin:

EDIT: I'm still very interested in seeing anyone's opinions on an Artificer build for this game, levels 3-10, that is heavy on crafting, light on combat, and includes Improved Homonculus. I'm putting together my own build right now, but I love seeing some of the genius stuff Playgrounders can come up with. :smallbiggrin:

Also, I brought up the potential floating city that Stone Trap enables over lunch with the group yesterday, and everyone seemed entertained by the idea, including the GM, so that's a good sign. :smallsmile:

[DragonSinged]

So I've been trying to think of a way to deal with my stat allocation, since the numbers I've got are pretty bad - 6/12/13/14/14/14.

My original plan was to stick the 6 in strength, because I probably won't need strength much, but that -2 keeps bothering me. I had already been planning on playing this character as a somewhat older human - late 30's, early 40's - for RP reasons, and I guess that sticks me into "Middle Age" territory. If I go that route with the 6 in strength, though, then that 6 becomes a 5, and that's really harsh. So I was thinking if I swapped the 6 into Wisdom, and put the 12 in strength, then I end up with 7 Wis, 11 Str, which is a little more manageable, maybe, but then I have to deal with Wis as my dump stat, and I'm not sure if that's a good idea.

Anyone have any suggestions on the matter?

[Rubik]

So I've been trying to think of a way to deal with my stat allocation, since the numbers I've got are pretty bad - 6/12/13/14/14/14.

My original plan was to stick the 6 in strength, because I probably won't need strength much, but that -2 keeps bothering me. I had already been planning on playing this character as a somewhat older human - late 30's, early 40's - for RP reasons, and I guess that sticks me into "Middle Age" territory. If I go that route with the 6 in strength, though, then that 6 becomes a 5, and that's really harsh. So I was thinking if I swapped the 6 into Wisdom, and put the 12 in strength, then I end up with 7 Wis, 11 Str, which is a little more manageable, maybe, but then I have to deal with Wis as my dump stat, and I'm not sure if that's a good idea.

Anyone have any suggestions on the matter?Buy a scroll of Polymorph Any Object, or one of Reincarnation. You can replace your physical stats wholesale, and keep your mental stats (barring your Int, in the first case). Later on, when you can afford it, craft a psychoactive skin of proteus (though I think you'll need to either make an arcane version or find a way to access psionics). Be a shapeshifter at all times, then ignore your physical stats.

[DragonSinged]

Buy a scroll of Polymorph Any Object, or one of Reincarnation. You can replace your physical stats wholesale, and keep your mental stats (barring your Int, in the first case). Later on, when you can afford it, craft a psychoactive skin of proteus (though I think you'll need to either make an arcane version or find a way to access psionics). Be a shapeshifter at all times, then ignore your physical stats.

Thank you for the suggestion, but this isn't quite the kind of solution I'm looking for, for a few reasons (which, in fairness, I hadn't exactly spelled out).

I'm starting at level 3, and as a general rule I personally never use Polymorph spells - my group just doesn't play at that level of rules-bending-ness (that's the best way I can think of to describe what I mean at the moment.)
I'd rather find a way to work with, and maybe enhance what I have, rather than "replacing it wholesale". I'd also like to find a way to do it that doesn't require suicide. :smalltongue:
Also, Artificer has access to enough items that I think I'll avoid trying to gain access to psionics territory - besides which, I know this GM doesn't particularly like psionics.

[Rubik]

You could always place your dump-stat in Con and undergo the transformation into a necropolitan. Or go something other than human with a Con bonus (like a warforged), then become a dragonborn, and twiddle your scores around a bit to compensate. If you really want the bonus feat, use items to get it (or two levels in chameleon). There are quite a few item-based feats, as well as magical locations, and you could always use the Dark Chaos Feat Shuffle to turn them into what you want.

[Gavinfoxx]

I'd seriously ask for point buy... even a very low point buy. Have you asked, saying, "I don't think I can make the character I have in mind with these stats. This randomness doesn't add anything to my enjoyment."

[DragonSinged]

I'd seriously ask for point buy... even a very low point buy. Have you asked, saying, "I don't think I can make the character I have in mind with these stats. This randomness doesn't add anything to my enjoyment."

I have, actually, but the GM likes the dice - it almost seems like a ritual to her. Her boyfriend started his stats by rolling them with the same die, rolling it 4 times - his first set he gets a 16, and she told him he couldn't keep it, he had to roll 4 dice together. We talked her down from that, he kept it, but then rolled the rest the way she wanted, but.. yeah, there are certain things she's just set on. Like I said before, I'm gonna try to not rock the boat too much, since she and I have butted heads in the past, and it ended up not being fun-times. That was years ago, though, and she is my friend, and I'm hoping that if I just try to play along with her rules as much as I can, it'll still be fun. Yeah, the stats are pretty bad, but numbers do not alone an entertaining character make.

So what I'm trying to decide on before Sunday (when our first session is) is whether

Str 6 / Dex 14 / Con 13 / Int 14 / Wis 12 / Cha 14

is worse than

Str 11 / Dex 13 / Con 12 / Int 15 / Wis 7 / Cha 15

Which is what I get when swapping Str with Wis and applying Middle Age changes.
I end up with a lot more odd numbers, which isn't necessarily great, but that's at level 3, so at 4 I'd be able to turn that Int into a 16.

I'm also thinking of taking Nymph's Kiss and Jack of All Trades at 1st level for the skill points and the +2 cha bonus for UMD from NK, and the not needing to toss single points into things like pottery and sculpting from JoAT.

Thoughts? Alternate suggestions? Starting gear ideas? :smallsmile:

[SliceandDiceKid]

I have, actually, but the GM likes the dice - it almost seems like a ritual to her. Her boyfriend started his stats by rolling them with the same die, rolling it 4 times - his first set he gets a 16, and she told him he couldn't keep it, he had to roll 4 dice together. We talked her down from that, he kept it, but then rolled the rest the way she wanted, but.. yeah, there are certain things she's just set on. Like I said before, I'm gonna try to not rock the boat too much, since she and I have butted heads in the past, and it ended up not being fun-times. That was years ago, though, and she is my friend, and I'm hoping that if I just try to play along with her rules as much as I can, it'll still be fun. Yeah, the stats are pretty bad, but numbers do not alone an entertaining character make.

So what I'm trying to decide on before Sunday (when our first session is) is whether

Str 6 / Dex 14 / Con 13 / Int 14 / Wis 12 / Cha 14

is worse than

Str 11 / Dex 13 / Con 12 / Int 15 / Wis 7 / Cha 15

Which is what I get when swapping Str with Wis and applying Middle Age changes.
I end up with a lot more odd numbers, which isn't necessarily great, but that's at level 3, so at 4 I'd be able to turn that Int into a 16.

I'm also thinking of taking Nymph's Kiss and Jack of All Trades at 1st level for the skill points and the +2 cha bonus for UMD from NK, and the not needing to toss single points into things like pottery and sculpting from JoAT.

Thoughts? Alternate suggestions? Starting gear ideas? :smallsmile:


Skip JoAT. Crank int. if you get something for dex, great. If not, no sweat. You're the number crunching robot who is constantly inquiring about whether or not each party member's actions will be profitable. If you get a lot of average stuff on the rolls, int/dex/wis. but don't burn a good score on wisdom. I know it's your save, but role play the big clunky computer man. Wear a ridiculous fedora with a small feather or a dealer's visor. Starting gear? Guard dog. You're in charge of the money and you deal with the client, you're essentially the bank manager.

I know the desire for strong stats and gear, but I've also been the guy who makes everyone at the table laugh because I'm so underpowered and role play a pretty non combatant coward. What's your reason? Is fighting the rodents attacking the town profitable? Is it worth your life? Absolutely not! Sick a homunculous on them! Or pay some sap to do the job. If he kills a few but dies, it makes the job manageable, AND you don't have to pay him! PROFIT! I'd say take item creation reduction feats from Eberon camp setting, then feats for homunculous stuff leadership later. Back to gear, hard to say for WF. But you can make your own at night while others sleep. You need rest to restore infusions, but if you didn't use any or just one, take advantage of that crafting time! Buckler, light xbow, bolts, backpack, and all the mundane gear you can put on a few mules. Rope mirrors oil water etc. build a sundial with metalworking. (Homunculous)


The jack of all trades idea isn't bad, I just think you'd regret it later. Also leadership could be a strong pick, if you get a sturdy score to tack on Cha.

Just hope for one really solid roll so your int can soar. Outwit your party and make profit!

Be ferengi! Heck, quote the rules of aquisition. Bahaha!

Let me know how the stat rolls go! :)

Also ask again if my answer wasn't thorough or satisfactory.

Edit: I don't think WF are ever affected by age. So if you're allowed to start any age, take that baby venerable! Ha

[DragonSinged]

@ SliceandDiceKid

The stats have already been rolled, they're the ones that are in the quote in your post - one set is without middle aged applied, the other is with. Also, the plan is to play Human, not Warforged - for the extra feat, and also because Humans are the most common in the area we're in, and it's mainly what feels right for this character. So yeah, I didn't really have a solid roll for intelligence, which is part of the problem I'm trying to work with. :smalltongue:

[SliceandDiceKid]

@ SliceandDiceKid

The stats have already been rolled, they're the ones that are in the quote in your post - one set is without middle aged applied, the other is with. Also, the plan is to play Human, not Warforged - for the extra feat, and also because Humans are the most common in the area we're in, and it's mainly what feels right for this character. So yeah, I didn't really have a solid roll for intelligence, which is part of the problem I'm trying to work with. :smalltongue:

Ugh I'm so sorry... I forgot. It's been like a week since I looked at the thread. And I clearly didn't read too thoroughly.
Go with the second listed scores.

[DragonSinged]

Ugh I'm so sorry... I forgot. It's been like a week since I looked at the thread. And I clearly didn't read too thoroughly.
Go with the second listed scores.

Hey, no need to apologize, I appreciate that you were trying to help at all.

We've just finished our first session, and I posted a copy of my character's journal here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?346305-Journal-of-Alistair-Rhodes&p=17417608#post17417608) in case anyone is interested in reading about how things are going. :smallsmile: